First All Grain Done - Any Thoughts?

[Jay-Brew]

Did first all grain yesterday and asking for thoughts on a couple things. Very glad to have the first one under my belt. Hit my mash temperature and lost about a degree over the hour. Hit correct gravity after boil. I haven't tried to figure out the efficiency yet as I was just focussing on the process.

One "issue" was that I couldn't get the vorlauf to clear on the first or second runnings. It cleared a little but still had grains in it. I have a 10 gallon Igloo cooler with a false bottom. I think some of the grain was just getting through the holes in the false bottom.

Also seemingly used too much sparge water as I ended up with around 3 litres more in the kettle than I was supposed to. Using BeerSmith. Before I started my main boil I ended up boiling the wort for 1 hour to reduce the wort. I think this saved my butt. I read that after first runnings you should use the amount of sparge water that will get you your final volume.

My other main concern was that I was short in my fermenter. Before I hit the deadspace in the kettle it started draining full on trub and I didn't want that in my fermenter. I am using for the first time a SS brew bucket and didn't want the bottom full of trub... as I want to make sure I don't plug the valve and render it useless. My understanding is that there is about 0.7 gallons of deadspace. I probably left about 2 or so litres in my kettle due to this. Anyway, was hoping for 5ish gallons and got just under 4.5. Once I keg I will probably be lucky to get 4 gallons. I should get a better sense after this batch of what the fermenter can tolerate.

I also had issues with my grain mill and screwed up some of the crush and then didn't have quite enough in the end to do batch so had to make some minor substitutions or use less. Basically was 2 or so ounces shy of carafoam so just threw in that much extra 2 grain. Also substituted a couple of ounces of crystal 60 for 40. So all in all probably no big deal.

I have never seen break like in this batch and after this batch probably should look into how to whirlpool given what I felt I needed to leave in the kettle.

Anyway, overall I probably can't complain for the first all grain. Super happy to have it done. Big confidence builder and looking forward to the next one.

So that was a bit of the summary of the things I thought could be better. If anyone has any thoughts it would be appreciated. Sorry this is so long.

 

[Chrisbrewbeers]

After 4 all grain brews with the same frustration during vorlauf that it sound Ike you had I just stuck the hose in the mesh bag I had for partial mash to filter.

 

[Jay-Brew]

After 4 all grain brews with the same frustration during vorlauf that it sound Ike you had I just stuck the hose in the mesh bag I had for partial mash to filter.

Thanks that is something to consider for next time. Do you know if the grains in the wort have any ill effects? It didn't seem to be grain husks, which I thought was a good thing.

 

[kh54s10]

Very confused.... You sparged and ended up with too much wort.... Then ended up with not enough???? Maybe you overshot the correction on boiling.

On the bright side you can look at what happened and make some adjustments. After a few batches you should be able to adjust so that you get what you are expecting for volume.

I do batch sparges and measure the volume after each step so that I have the right amount before the start of the boil.

 

[Jay-Brew]

Very confused.... You sparged and ended up with too much wort.... Then ended up with not enough???? Maybe you overshot the correction on boiling.

On the bright side you can look at what happened and make some adjustments. After a few batches you should be able to adjust so that you get what you are expecting for volume.

I do batch sparges and measure the volume after each step so that I have the right amount before the start of the boil.

Sorry I may not have been clear. I did my first runnings and then batch sparged. After I finished sparging I ended up with probably 3 or so more litres in my brew kettle than I was shooting for (I followed the water amounts for strike and sparge water in my BeerSmith recipe). Anyway, as I overshot the amount of wort I boiled it off for 1 hour to try and get closer to my pre-boil (the normal 90 minute boil for this particular recipe) gravity. That I think was a good thing to do.

As for not ending up with enough in my fermenter, I think I had enough in the kettle but I made the conscious decision to stop draining my kettle before it hit the deadspace as it was solid hop, break... gunk just going in to my fermenter. This amount that I left in the kettle due to this was probably about 2ish litres which made my amount in the fermenter shy. So I guess while the right amount was in my kettle I didn't use it all for the reason described.

As you say I can make some adjustments. Does it makes sense to sparge with the volume of water that is required following first runnings to get you to your final volume in your kettle? After my first runnings which got me about 15 litres I thought the amount of sparge water in BeerSmith sounded like too much and it was. I have read that you should figure out how much more volume is needed in the kettle following first runnings and that is the amount of sparge water to use. I think I trusted BeerSmith here and it was too much.

 

[Chrisbrewbeers]

Thanks that is something to consider for next time. Do you know if the grains in the wort have any ill effects? It didn't seem to be grain husks, which I thought was a good thing.

I was always able to get the cloudiness to clear after about a pitcher or so but husks would get through, I batch sparged on all but the first. Once clear I just went straight to mesh bag this last time without stopping flow because the flow change seems to cause the husks. There was less in the bag than I expected however.
I can't imagine too many grain husks do any good, but I do have another post here trying to find something out about the water here in richmond. I thought the husks might be the reason I get a overpowering taste.

 

[BigFloyd]

Congrats. For the first AG batch, it sounds like things went pretty well. As far as volumes, boil off, trub loss and such go, that's something that you'll get dialed in better with subsequent batches.

 

[Croyzen]

Boiling for too long will have consequences. There are plenty of threads that discuss this. Clearing the runnings by opening the valve slowly and allowing the grain bed to settle by running off a couple of pitchers should work. Research and check your crush and MLT design as well.

I'm a big fan of brewing the same few recipes. Too many brewers just brew one and move on never learning from their mistakes or improving the final result. Brew it again and see of it's better after working out your issues.

 

[Jay-Brew]

Congrats. For the first AG batch, it sounds like things went pretty well. As far as volumes, boil off, trub loss and such go, that's something that you'll get dialed in better with subsequent batches.

Thanks! I would say all in all it probably went as well as could be expected. In fact if I am honest with myself I would say it probably went better than expected. I was particularly happy with hitting and almost maintaining my mash temperature and hitting my OG. The volumes are probably rectified with a little thought next time. The funny thing is the parts that were post boil and that I have done a number of times before with my extract weren't perfect either. Stoked for the next batch!

 

[Jay-Brew]

Boiling for too long will have consequences. There are plenty of threads that discuss this. Clearing the runnings by opening the valve slowly and allowing the grain bed to settle by running off a couple of pitchers should work. Research and check your crush and MLT design as well.

I'm a big fan of brewing the same few recipes. Too many brewers just brew one and move on never learning from their mistakes or improving the final result. Brew it again and see of it's better after working out your issues.

At the time I wasn't sure what do to regarding the excess wort. I read I could boil it down to get my gravity up as my pre boil gravity was lower than where it should have been. I did read at the same time that long boils, if I recall correctly, could cause increased carmel or something along those lines. Maybe other issues too, but didn't have time to look into it further, but will do so. Basically I rolled the dice and hopefully it was the right call.

As for the vorlauf I was careful to open the valve very slowly. One thing I wondered though is that I was using a small container rather than a big one and thus not letting it run longer at one given time - so wasn't sure if that made a difference.

 

[MindenMan]

As far as I remember, as long as there is 1-2" wort above the grain, that should help it not compact, and filter correctly. Slow in the beginning, and then speed up, but make sure there is wort above the grain bed all the time, or you may get a stuck mash. Been there, done that... The idea is for the vorlauf to run clear is, to keep as much as possible grain out of the brew kettle. If you can afford two five gallon buckets and a spigot, you can make your own vorlauf/sparge tun for less than $10.00. Search "Zapap" I have been brewing for 2+ years, and I have not purchased an insulated mash tun yet.

 

[LakeErieMonster]

Does it makes sense to sparge with the volume of water that is required following first runnings to get you to your final volume in your kettle?

Typically, the goal is to get the proper amount of gravity units from your sparge. Boil time should be a variable based on how much sparge water you required to hit your desired number of gravity units.

A long boil can be advantageous in regards to eliminating DMS.

Sounds like you handled the high volume sparge properly.

The only problem is you will have half of a gallon less of beer at the end!

 

[Jay-Brew]

As far as I remember, as long as there is 1-2" wort above the grain, that should help it not compact, and filter correctly. Slow in the beginning, and then speed up, but make sure there is wort above the grain bed all the time, or you may get a stuck mash. Been there, done that... The idea is for the vorlauf to run clear is, to keep as much as possible grain out of the brew kettle. If you can afford two five gallon buckets and a spigot, you can make your own vorlauf/sparge tun for less than $10.00. Search "Zapap" I have been brewing for 2+ years, and I have not purchased an insulated mash tun yet.

When you are talking about wort above the grain is this not fly sparging you are referring to (unless I am confused)? I was batch sparging. The wort did clear but not as much as I would have wanted. Hopefully with practice.

Thanks for the Zapap suggestion but I have an Igloo 10 gallon cooler mash tun conversion.

 

[Jay-Brew]

Typically, the goal is to get the proper amount of gravity units from your sparge. Boil time should be a variable based on how much sparge water you required to hit your desired number of gravity units.

A long boil can be advantageous in regards to eliminating DMS.

Sounds like you handled the high volume sparge properly.

The only problem is you will have half of a gallon less of beer at the end!

Next time I think I'll empty the kettle more. Just worried about my ss brew bucket filling up with junk rendering the valve useless, but I suspect it can hold a bit and I'll get a sense of it with use.

 

[djfriesen]

You can definitely account for that extra trub by adjusting your allowance for kettle dead space in your software. As an aside, you can always put that break material/hop residue in your fermenter. Plenty of people do, and make great beer. It will all drop out during fermentation, and you rack the same as normal. The only reason you might not want to is if you plan to culture the yeast for future batches. Even so, if you look into yeast washing, it's fairly easy to take that stuff out of the yeast and get a pretty clean culture for future pitches.



Congrats on the first AG brew!



BTW, I would try to find a bigger vorlauf pitcher. Letting it run longer will definitely help it clear better.

 

[Jay-Brew]

You can definitely account for that extra trub by adjusting your allowance for kettle dead space in your software. As an aside, you can always put that break material/hop residue in your fermenter. Plenty of people do, and make great beer. It will all drop out during fermentation, and you rack the same as normal. The only reason you might not want to is if you plan to culture the yeast for future batches. Even so, if you look into yeast washing, it's fairly easy to take that stuff out of the yeast and get a pretty clean culture for future pitches.



Congrats on the first AG brew!



BTW, I would try to find a bigger vorlauf pitcher. Letting it run longer will definitely help it clear better.

Thanks very much! Definitely going to use a bigger jug/pitcher to vorlauf next time. I entered all of my volumes into BeerSmith including the deadspace in my kettle. My problem was I quit draining it before it hit the deadspace so I lost that volume going into my fermenter. I have drained much more of the junk at the bottom of the kettle in the past without concern when using a carboy or bucket. The reason I didn't so much this time is because I am using an SS Brew Bucket for the first time, and I wanted to be sure I didn't get too much junk in it and fill up the cone at the bottom over top of the valve opening and thereby render it useless. After I drain it I'll have a much better idea of how much I can get away with on future batches in the Brew Bucket. I have read it's about 0.7 gallons. I will also be dry hopping with around 4 oz. too I think which will add a little bit. Hopefully there is lots of room at next time I will feel good about draining down to the kettle deadspace.

Thanks again! Really looking forward to batch #2, which I hope is in a couple of weeks.

 

[Biergarden]

You didn't mention the water you use and if you treated it or not. What I mean is by that is adding a bit of brewing salts it will help your grains better convert while in the mash by lowering your mash pH. I'm sure you're aware of the starch conversion enzymes called alpha and beta amylase.
I use CaSO4 which is calcium sulfate to lower my strike water pH of one tsp per five gallons. It's important not to add too much to guard against sulphur undertones in your beer and especially careful if you're making a lager. The alternative to that is calcium chloride CaCl2. There are other ions, but personally I don't make british style beers that use Nacl or MgSO4 as well.
It's just something to consider as you move forwards and have a better feel for your brewing process.
Something I like to do personally is to continue to sparge past the extracted amount. I like to for two reasons. First is to control boil overs with a bit of cooler wort and the second is to make a weak table beer. I can typically collect 2.5 gallons or more of wort that is 1.020 og and ferment that out in a glass carboy to an alcohol content of 2% abv. It ferments and matures very fast and gives you something to drink while waiting for the main beer to catch up.
Congrats on your first all grain brew!

 

[Jay-Brew]

Thanks, Biergarden!

I have read a little about water chemistry but still have a ton to learn about it. I didn't concern myself with it too much for this one, but it will be something I research more going ahead.

For this batch I added a tablespoon of 5.2 stabilizer. I have read mixed thoughts on its efficacy, but I have it.... I also added a quarter tablet of campden to the strike and sparge water. It was tap water that I used.

 

[Biergarden]

One way to manage your trub us with some whole leaf hop. You'll see a bunch of the trub/hot break caught up in the loose hops at the bottom of your boil kettle once you drain off into your fermenter.

 

[Jay-Brew]

One way to manage your trub us with some whole leaf hop. You'll see a bunch of the trub/hot break caught up in the loose hops at the bottom of your boil kettle once you drain off into your fermenter.

Will have to try that on a future batch. Thanks.