First all grain brew, where did I mess up?

[Wiesty]

Hey all!
So I did my first all grain brew yesterday, a bit of a variation on the Cottage House Saison recipe.

Here are the specs, as estimated by Beersmith:

Total Grains: 11.5 lbs (including 1 pound honey)
Estimated Pre-boil volume: 6 Gallon (only 7 gallon pot)
Final Volume: 5.25 Gallons
OG: 1.059

Mash volume: 3.29 Gallons
Sparge Volume: 3.98 Gallons
Single Infusion, Batch Sparge, No mashout


As I said, brew went pretty good, but failed to hit some numbers, and my efficiency lacked because of that.

After the mash and sparge I was only able to yield about 5 Gallons of wort where as I was expecting more. This was with tipping the mash tun, and I don't believe I had a stuck sparge. My wort gravity at this point was about 1.045, but with the boil and adding a pound of honey, I decided to stop here. There was probably about another 1/2 gallon of sparge water.

I boiled for an hour and added honey so my post boil gravity was 1.070. I topped up the fermented from 4 gallons to about 4.6 gallons, bringing my gravity to 1.055 (was aiming for 1.059, but was a bit off).


Either way, the fermentation is taking off like crazy this morning, so I'm sure it was successful. But with these numbers my efficiency is sitting around 55%. Anyone know where I messed up with numbers? I'm thinking not enough mash water, but beersmith seemed to think so.

 

[cooper]

When I batch sparge I'll usually go 1.25 or 1.5q/lb (whatever gets me to a round number, say 4 gallons of strike water instead of 3.82 or something like that) of grain and do my mash and then run off the first runnings and measure those to determine how much sparge water I need to reach my pre-boil volume. So if I only run off 3.5 gallons then I'll sparge with 3 gallons to get my 6.5 preboil volume. Makes things easy.

 

[Yooper]

A couple of reasons for your lowered efficiency are not sparging enough (you needed more volume) and by adding water to the wort after the boil.

Both of those will give you a big hit on efficiency, since water will dilute the wort.

next time, sparge up to your boil volume. Take your first runnings, and measure them, and then add the amount you need to your mashtun for your sparge.

For example, if you boil volume is 6 gallons and you have 2.5 gallons of first runnings, you need 3.5 gallons of sparge water.

You probably will boil off a gallon an hour, more or less, so it's not realistic to start with 6 gallons and and up with more than 5 gallons.

Then, when you are finished, adding water will lower your efficiency greatly, so don't do that unless you have a too-high OG and need to dilute it (unlikely).

 

[chickypad]

I boiled for an hour and added honey so my post boil gravity was 1.070. I topped up the fermented from 4 gallons to about 4.6 gallons, bringing my gravity to 1.055 (was aiming for 1.059, but was a bit off). .

These numbers also don't match. If you had 4 gal of 1.070 and topped off with 0.6 gal it should have been more like 1.061 - I think it probably wasn't mixed fully which is a common problem topping off with plain water.

 

[blizz81]

Calculate your water volumes manually until you get the hang of it.


Attached an example of my calcs below. 1.25qt/lb is a fairly standard ratio, though some people mash thinner. I effectively do as I count the volume under my false bottom and add that on top.


Figure your grain absorption. Mine seems to work out around 0.115gal/lb.


Then in batch sparging, typically you'll want to sparge up to your preboil volume. As you get towards bigger beers, you'll notice your batch sparge volume will shrink. You can take the hit on efficiency and go with it, or do something like try to get close to a 50/50 volume between sparge water and your first runnings, and boil longer.


Figure your numbers out, write notes, tweak along the way as necessary for your equipment.

 

[Wiesty]

Thanks Guys,
I only got about 1.8 gallons from my first runnings, and by the end of the second runnings was at about 5 gallons. I was trying to go more by gravity than volume. I could have kept adding a bit more sparge water but my gravity was getting too low.

The reason I went with 6 gallon pre boil target was that my kettle is only 7 gallons and I like to leave about a gallon of headroom so that I can get a nice boil going.

I'm thinking maybe my mash volume was not high enough. My first runnings gravity was quite high, like 1.09 if I recall. As mentioned, I only got about 1.8 gallons of this though, and the gravity dropped quite drastically after I added second runnings.

 

[blizz81]

Thanks Guys,
I only got about 1.8 gallons from my first runnings, and by the end of the second runnings was at about 5 gallons. I was trying to go more by gravity than volume. I could have kept adding a bit more sparge water but my gravity was getting too low.

The reason I went with 6 gallon pre boil target was that my kettle is only 7 gallons and I like to leave about a gallon of headroom so that I can get a nice boil going.

I'm thinking maybe my mash volume was not high enough. My first runnings gravity was quite high, like 1.09 if I recall. As mentioned, I only got about 1.8 gallons of this though, and the gravity dropped quite drastically after I added second runnings.

It doesn't seem too far off. With just a 1.25qt/lb ratio and guessing with a .115 absorption, I have first runnings coming at 2.08gal for that, which would then call for 3.92gal of sparge water.


You may have some deadspace / liquid you're not collecting if you're low on both collections (this should be apparent to some degree once you're cleaning out the mash tun). If so you'll have to factor that into your calculations.


In terms of volume into fermenter / final volume with trub loss, you'll probably also struggle some on 5 gallon batches with a 7 gallon BK in general.

 

[chickypad]

I agree the first runnings look about right, but you should have pretty much gotten the full 4 gals of sparge back out (grain absoprtion and dead space filling come from mash water). Looks like you only got 3.2. How are you measuring volumes? Also unrelated question but are you stirring the sparge really well?

 

[acidrain]

Aside from your efficiency question, have you entered your equipment profile into Beersmith? Do you know your boil-off rate and losses?
There is never a good reason for topping with water doing an all grain batch. There are sugars left in the grains that you can retrieve with the sparge.

 

[chickypad]

There is never a good reason for topping with water doing an all grain batch. There are sugars left in the grains that you can retrieve with the sparge.

I wouldn't say never, equipment restrictions may be one reason. For example I sometimes like to brew a concentrated 3 gal wort on my small set up and top off to 5 gals to get a larger batch. You just have to be willing to take the efficiency hit. But the OP seems to have the kettle space so I agree in this case better to sparge to the full volume.

 

[Yooper]

Aside from your efficiency question, have you entered your equipment profile into Beersmith? Do you know your boil-off rate and losses?
There is never a good reason for topping with water doing an all grain batch. There are sugars left in the grains that you can retrieve with the sparge.

I wouldn't say never- for example if you're making a mild or another low OG beer. Oversparging could be a big risk, and in that case you'd top up with water before the boil to avoid oversparging. You'd built that into your recipe, though, and plan accordingly.

I have a mild recipe that I love, and it uses 6 pounds of grain. To get a preboil volume of 7 gallons, I'd have to risk oversparging if I didn't allow for top up with water.

 

[Wiesty]

Ill have to use top off water until I upgrade to a 10 gallon pot. Boiling 6.5 gallons in a 7 gallon pot is cutting it a bit close for my liking...