First AG Batch, few questions

[Jorts]

I’m taking the leap from extract to AG brewing today and I am very excited to try mashing for the first time. Before I ask any questions here’s some information about the recipe and mashing equipment that I will be using.

Three Floyd’s Zombie Dust Clone (found here on HBT)
Batch size: 6 gal
Preboil volume: 7.5 gal
14.4 lb grain
Estimated OG: 1.065
Target mash temp: 154 F for 60 minutes

10 gallon mash tun
10 gallon HLT

My first question is what mash thickness should I use ? The instructions that came with my mash tun recommend 1 quart of water for every pound of grain. That seems a bit too thick to me.

My next question is how exactly to sparge using my liquor tank. I understand the purpose of the process, to thoroughly rinse the grain in the tun of all their sugars. But I don’t completely understand the procedure and the instructions that came with my equipment are pretty vague. After the 60 minute mash and vorloff (sorry spelling), do I drain ALL of the wort from the tun to my boil kettle and then slowly add water from the HLT to the mash tun and mash again for another 60 minutes? Recommendation/clarification would be greatly appreciated.

The mashing instructions I have also include a step to test your wort for conversion of starch to sugar using “tincture of iodine”. Unfortunately I do not have any tincture of iodine. Is it okay to skip this step or is it mandatory?

Thanks a lot in advance!

 

[McKnuckle]

Sparging is done in several ways, with "batch" and "fly" being the two primary types. For a first timer, I'd strongly suggest a batch sparge. It's easier and less fiddly. Get through the process successfully one time and then read up on the many ways people do it.

To batch sparge, vorlauf and then drain all the wort rapidly from the tun to your kettle. Then fill the tun again with hot water from the HLT. Stir well, let sit for 10 minutes (optional), vorlauf, and let 'er rip again. Then proceed with your boil.

The mash thickness is another variable but it's not that critical. Often it's chosen due to volume constraints in the tun. Try to make it at least 1.25 qts per lb of grain. 1.5, 1.75, doesn't really matter at this point. But with 14.4 lbs of grain and a 7.5 gallon planned boil, you'll need a LOT of water: The grain will absorb about 0.12 gallons per lb. So to end up with 7.5 gallons of wort, you'll need to start with 7.5 + 1.7 = ~9.2 gallons.

Split it in half (4.6 gallons mash, 4.6 gallons sparge) and that's a mash thickness of 1.28 qts/lb. Perfectly fine.

You do not have to test for conversion after a full one hour mash. You'll be fine.

 

[govner1]

^^^^This! Plus I add a very low amount of heat under my BK once I've drained my first running and waiting on my sparge water (10 min). Once you vorlauf and then start draining your sparge water to your BK you can crank up the heat. You'll shave a few minutes off waiting for your boil. You didn't mention what size BK you have. I hope it's at least 10 gal given your planned pre-boil volume.

 

[Jorts]

Thanks for the quick help guys!

govner1, I do have a 10 gallon boil kettle. I splurged a little and got one that has a ball valve spigot and thermometer attached

One thing I just thought of, I made a 2.5 L yeast starter last night. Is 24 hours long enough before I pitch or should I wait another day? Also, will pouring/pitching all 2.5 L into my wort have a negative impact on my beer?

 

[McKnuckle]

The best approach for a starter is to wait til it has mostly fermented the DME, then put it into the fridge so the yeast settles on the bottom. Then you pour off the basic beer it created (save a small amount to swirl up the slurry). Only dump the slightly diluted slurry into your real beer.

 

[Jorts]

The best approach for a starter is to wait til it has mostly fermented the DME, then put it into the fridge so the yeast settles on the bottom. Then you pour off the basic beer it created (save a small amount to swirl up the slurry). Only dump the slightly diluted slurry into your real beer.

Ah hah. I don't want to rush the yeast then so brew day is postponed until tomorrow. Right now they're goin ape **** (i can hear the bubbling through the plastic wrap cover). I'll make a note to decant the excess liquid. I'll have to do it very carefully since the only container I could find to start the yeast in was a large mixing bowl.

 

[Kampenken]

Ah hah. I don't want to rush the yeast then so brew day is postponed until tomorrow. Right now they're goin ape **** (i can hear the bubbling through the plastic wrap cover). I'll make a note to decant the excess liquid. I'll have to do it very carefully since the only container I could find to start the yeast in was a large mixing bowl.

As with so many things here, there's quite a difference of opinion! Having said that, I no longer cold crash my starters, but instead I plan to pitch in the 12hr range from starting, i.e. at full Krausen. I like this method and have had very good results, no need to decant.

What I suggest is you use brewing calculators, there is no one size fits all when trying to dial in a brew. What surprises me is a 2.5L starter, that's large, especially for a 6g 1.065 brew. I tend to make mostly 1L starters, for 70-75 OG beers (5.5g). Of course it does depend on the age of your yeast, I generally get yeast 2-3wks old tops. Now, my new plan is to harvest from my starter, so my starters will now be larger, but not to pitch entirely.

Brew cals- Brewer's Friend- Beer Recipe builder, Hydrometer adj, Yeast pitch rate and starter calc- now using homebrewdad for yeast starter with harvesting, and I've checked w/Brewer's Friend for starter w/o harvest and almost exactly the same. I also like Brew365 for my mash and sparge water calculator, this to me is critical in hitting gravities, and temps!

Best of luck and welcome to AG, you will be hooked, and you will buy more equipment!

Cheers

 

[Jorts]

As with so many things here, there's quite a difference of opinion! Having said that, I no longer cold crash my starters, but instead I plan to pitch in the 12hr range from starting, i.e. at full Krausen. I like this method and have had very good results, no need to decant.

What I suggest is you use brewing calculators, there is no one size fits all when trying to dial in a brew. What surprises me is a 2.5L starter, that's large, especially for a 6g 1.065 brew. I tend to make mostly 1L starters, for 70-75 OG beers (5.5g). Of course it does depend on the age of your yeast, I generally get yeast 2-3wks old tops. Now, my new plan is to harvest from my starter, so my starters will now be larger, but not to pitch entirely.

Brew cals- Brewer's Friend- Beer Recipe builder, Hydrometer adj, Yeast pitch rate and starter calc- now using homebrewdad for yeast starter with harvesting, and I've checked w/Brewer's Friend for starter w/o harvest and almost exactly the same. I also like Brew365 for my mash and sparge water calculator, this to me is critical in hitting gravities, and temps!

Best of luck and welcome to AG, you will be hooked, and you will buy more equipment!

Cheers

Hey thanks for the response! I used MrMalty calculator for my yeast starter volume. It seems like a pretty large volume to me too. I'll check out the ones you recommended and compare them. Of note, the yeast I'm using is 3 weeks old.

The next piece of equipment I'm planning to get is a stir plate and erlenmeyer flask (for yeast starters of course). Any recommendations on size of flask(s) I should get?

Thanks again

 

[Jorts]

When exactly and how is the best way to aerate your wort for AG batches?

 

[Kampenken]

Hey thanks for the response! I used MrMalty calculator for my yeast starter volume. It seems like a pretty large volume to me too. I'll check out the ones you recommended and compare them. Of note, the yeast I'm using is 3 weeks old.

The next piece of equipment I'm planning to get is a stir plate and erlenmeyer flask (for yeast starters of course). Any recommendations on size of flask(s) I should get?

Thanks again

You're welcome!

Ahh, now I understand, I've been making my starters on my diy stirplate, so it would only call for a 1.3L starter for your specs, using the Braukaiser rates. Actually on Brewer's Friend, I input 3 week old yeast, .75m c/ml; and shaking and it required a 3L starter! Build that stirplate, very easy project, lots out here on it too. I have a 2L flask and have not needed to exceed this figure for 5-5.5g batches, with similarly 1-3wk old yeast, again thanks to the stirplate. I was thinking of getting a 3L flask for assistance in harvesting. I plan to create a starter- split in two, save 1/2 and create a 2nd starter on the other half.

My plan: 70 OG brew, 13 day old yeast, Pro Brewer (.75), stirplate. 1L starter will create ~230B cells. Split in two ~115B; make a 1.1L starter and I hit my required 273. Age of my saved 1/2 starter is when I first create it.

I am now aerating my wort by O2. I purchased on Amazon a brass regulator and 0.5 micron stone, from Lowes an O2 tank (2, one as backup!). I shoot 60sec of O2 right after pitching. I've heard for higher gravity beers 80+? or so, to also aerate at ~12hrs into fermentation. There is a great thread here O2 Wand, that had a water treatment facility test a brewer's wort, amazing results. I can get you the link if you desire.

 

[Jorts]

Thats another thing I need to look into getting. I'm in the middle of a brew session right now so I guess I'm going to have to dump back and forth between buckets this time.

 

[Kampenken]

I used to shake like mad in the bucket, but I'm sure your pouring back and forth will better aerate. Keep it sanitary, and enjoy your brew day!

 

[Jorts]

I got my first AG batch in the primary today. It's a Zombie Dust clone recipe I found here on HBT (posted by skeezerpleezer). I learned two important lessons, know what your equipment is capable of and know what you're capable of physically speaking.

Unfortunately I ended up with a much lower than expected OG of 1.050 when I was targeting a 1.065 OG. The mistake that led to this? I had realized as I was draining wort from the tun to my kettle that my kettle was in fact only 8 gallons instead of the 10 gallons I thought it was. This was a big problem because my recipe had planned for 7.5 gallons of pre boil wort to end up with a 6 gallon batch. I proceeded to fill the boil kettle up to the maximum point where I thought I could avoid boil over. I ended up with just over 6.5 gallons of pre boil wort. If I had to guess I would say this is the reason for the low gravity reading. Another possibility is when I took the sample for the hydrometer reading I was chilling the wort. Is there a chance that since I was cooling the wort that the sample I obtained from the top may not have been an accurate sample of my wort?

The other lesson I learned is how freakin heavy 6.5 gallons of water is! I could barely lift it up and place it on the counter. If it was any larger I probably would have spilled it.

Despite my concern about the gravity, I really enjoyed then process. I tasted a sample of the prevail wort out of the hydrometer cup and it tasted great. While I was chilling the wort, I could really smell the aroma of the citra hops with smelled amazing! I really hope this beer comes out half as good as it tasted and smelled today. Either way though, I know for my next batch to plan a recipe knowing the actual size of my equipment and to keep in mind that I have to be able to physically move my batch too.

Looking forward to my next brew. I'll be sure to let you guys know how this one shakes out.

 

[McKnuckle]

Starting your boil with less wort, while maintaining the same evaporation rate, would actually raise the OG by a little bit.

Let's say your wort was at 1.052 after the mash:

Expected
7.5 gal minus 1.5 gal evaporated = 6 gal @ 1.065

Actual
6.5 gal minus 1.5 gal evaporated = 5 gal @ 1.067

(Boil-off calculator)

When you took the post-boil (mid-cool) sample for your hydrometer, did you apply temperature correction to the 1.050 reading? A reading of 1.050 @ 120F is actually 1.060, for example.

 

[Jorts]

I honestly can't recall what the temperature of the hydrometer sample was. Definitely something to pay closer attention to in the future. Thanks for pointing that out! On a side note, the fermentation is bubbling vigorously right now. A little too vigorously actually. I had to remove and clean the airlock because it had some beer in it from bubbling so much. Right now I just put a sanitized dome shaped piece of foil over the hole on the fermentor until it slows down a bit.