Has anyone had this session IPA yet? I enjoyed it a lot and wanna try and make a clone of it. Firestone Walker lists all this ingredients and hops on their site. Has anyone taken a stab at making a clone of this beer? If so please share.
Firestone Walker Easy Jack
- Thread starter HOPtuary
- Start date
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TheCanisDirus
Well-Known Member
I was going to ask, how was it? I'm a fan of Union Jack and a HUGE fan of Double Jack... the session has me intrigued even though loads of these "session IPAs" I've been trying have tasted to watery for my liking. Firestone does it right i'm sure.
As far as the recipe... i wonder why they're actually using carapils when they're using wheat and flaked oats? Maybe to counter act the light body @ a dry 4.5%. I don't personally see the use depending on how much wheat and oat they're mashing. How was the mouthfeel on it?
As far as the recipe... i wonder why they're actually using carapils when they're using wheat and flaked oats? Maybe to counter act the light body @ a dry 4.5%. I don't personally see the use depending on how much wheat and oat they're mashing. How was the mouthfeel on it?
OP
OP
The aroma and hop flavor were great for a 45-50 IBU. I dont remember too many details cuz i had it at a craft brew fest so was a lil sauced 
Im going to pick some up tomorrow or friday night and dissect it more. I am also a huge fan of the Jack family of beers. You should pick up a 6er.
Im going to pick some up tomorrow or friday night and dissect it more. I am also a huge fan of the Jack family of beers. You should pick up a 6er.mhot55
Well-Known Member
Loved this one. Was intrigued too about a session ipa. I couldn't believe it was an ipa, was shocked that this is listed at 40-50 IBUs (thought it was no higher than 30). But the hop aroma and flavor is great- tropical, melon, grapefruit citrus with a touch of pine. I would imagine a good way to start is to mimic firestone brewing technique for Union Jack while sticking to their websites listing of malt and hops. I think the wheat malt is for body and head retention (2-5%% of bill). With so many late addition hops the proteins may get stripped out of the beer so this is compensation. Same with oats (2-3%) to give it some backbone. Carapils (5-10%). Munich (7-10%). Crystal malt (5-7%). I would tend toward the lower % on everything- creeping up to the higher with carpals and Munich. I am considering avoiding a 60 minute hop addition or using a small amount to get half IBUs from it and getting rest IBUs using hop bursting/ whirl pooling. Yeah- it's a lot of hops. Use 2 stage dry hopping- transferring to secondary after 3-5 days of first dry hop then add second dry hop. Mosaic is available and I would ensure I use. The rest of the hops if they prove difficult- I would sub a tropical variety, a citrus/ grapefruit bomb, and a clean noble type with some citrus undertones. Try to use varieties that are not "harsh"- but offer "smooth" bittering. I am gonna throw an ounce or so of each hop together, mix it up, and keep throwing a fraction of it in every 3-5 minutes for the last 15 minutes- tweaking until I get 40 IBUs. Another 1/2-1 oz of each in whirlpool/ flameout. Same in dry hops. YEAST- I'd go with an English yeast, mildly fruity, good attenuation, and ferment at lower end.
When I make a recipe I will post it.
When I make a recipe I will post it.
Holter
Well-Known Member
Be careful about matching those IBU's. Session hoppy beers can be very tricky to nail down. Also, Firestone's beers listed IBU's dont seem to lineup with my own understanding of IBU' in my beers. For one, drinking a Pale 31 I would say that the IBUs are somewhere around 25-30 based off of my understanding of my own system's calculated IBU's.
For example, if you look at the IBUs listed for Pale 31 on Firestone's webpage it lists that beer as 38 IBU's. http://www.firestonebeer.com/beers/products/pale-31
If you look at the can you brew it recipe for Pale 31 (which is said to have been cloned) you will see that with rager it comes up as a shockingly low 12 IBUs. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/can-you-brew-recipe-firestone-walker-pale-31-a-189855/
So for me, tasting a Pale 31 side by side with an Easy Jack would be a good way of coming up with the IBU's and then deterimining the amount of hop increase for aroma in the Easy Jack compared to the hopping amounts in the Pale 31 listed in the CYBI recipe to get close.
I did a side by side yesterday with Stone's Go To and Firestone's Easy Jack and couldnt believe how much better I thought the Easy Jack was. Go To is a great beer that I have really been enjoying lately, but Easy Jack just crushed it. Its malt bill seems really light - Im kind of shocked to see what the malts listed are. I would bet its something like this:
American Pale Malt - 86%
Munich Malt - 4.5%
Malted Wheat - 3%
English Caramel 35 - 3%
Cara Pils 2.5%
Rolled Oats - 1%
Good luck with the clones - i love this beer and would love to be able to brew something like it.
Calichusetts
Well-Known Member
Been drinking easy jack all week. So good. I'd go with the previous recommendation but actually take the double jack recipe. To me, this is a spot on double jack hop profile. Just adjust it for ABV/IBU. As with all their beers, something like 95% or more of their IBU come post-boil.
OP
OP
Im thinking im going to use the the Union jack grain bill start and adjust from their. Ive been too busy at work since ive posted this to get a recipe on here but hopefully i can get something up this weekend for you guys to comment on as i would like to brew it next weekend. Cheers!
OP
OP
Guys here is my attempt at the clone recipe. I think the grain bill is pretty close but could use some help with the hop schedule. I am not familiar with these hops so comments are welcome. I will be brewing this next weekend so hoping to get this nailed down by mid week so I can get the materials. Thanks in advance.
BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Easy Jack Clone
Brewer: Wanger
Asst Brewer:
Style: American Amber Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)
Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 8.76 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.76 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
Bottling Volume: 4.75 gal
Estimated OG: 1.045 SG
Estimated Color: 5.6 SRM
Estimated IBU: 53.5 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 85.1 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes
Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
6 lbs Pale Malt - 2 Row (Cargill) (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 64.2 %
12.8 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 8.6 %
12.8 oz Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 3 8.6 %
12.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 30L (30.0 SRM) Grain 4 8.0 %
8.0 oz Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 5 5.3 %
8.0 oz Wheat Malt (Gambrinus) (2.3 SRM) Grain 6 5.3 %
0.75 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Boil 60.0 m Hop 7 31.2 IBUs
0.25 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 8 1.9 IBUs
0.25 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Boil 15.0 m Hop 9 3.6 IBUs
0.25 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 10 1.4 IBUs
0.25 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Boil 10.0 m Hop 11 2.6 IBUs
0.25 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 12 0.8 IBUs
0.25 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Boil 5.0 mi Hop 13 1.4 IBUs
0.25 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 60 Hop 14 1.9 IBUs
0.25 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Steep/Whirl Hop 15 3.6 IBUs
0.25 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Steep/Whirl Hop 16 5.2 IBUs
0.50 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 17 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Hop 18 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Hop 19 0.0 IBUs
Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 9 lbs 5.6 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 15.69 qt of water at 161.2 F 150.0 F 75 min
Sparge: Fly sparge with 6.96 gal water at 168.0 F
Notes:
------
BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Easy Jack Clone
Brewer: Wanger
Asst Brewer:
Style: American Amber Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)
Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 8.76 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.76 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
Bottling Volume: 4.75 gal
Estimated OG: 1.045 SG
Estimated Color: 5.6 SRM
Estimated IBU: 53.5 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 85.1 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes
Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
6 lbs Pale Malt - 2 Row (Cargill) (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 64.2 %
12.8 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 8.6 %
12.8 oz Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 3 8.6 %
12.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 30L (30.0 SRM) Grain 4 8.0 %
8.0 oz Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 5 5.3 %
8.0 oz Wheat Malt (Gambrinus) (2.3 SRM) Grain 6 5.3 %
0.75 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Boil 60.0 m Hop 7 31.2 IBUs
0.25 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 8 1.9 IBUs
0.25 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Boil 15.0 m Hop 9 3.6 IBUs
0.25 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 10 1.4 IBUs
0.25 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Boil 10.0 m Hop 11 2.6 IBUs
0.25 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 12 0.8 IBUs
0.25 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Boil 5.0 mi Hop 13 1.4 IBUs
0.25 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 60 Hop 14 1.9 IBUs
0.25 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Steep/Whirl Hop 15 3.6 IBUs
0.25 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Steep/Whirl Hop 16 5.2 IBUs
0.50 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 17 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Hop 18 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Hop 19 0.0 IBUs
Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 9 lbs 5.6 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 15.69 qt of water at 161.2 F 150.0 F 75 min
Sparge: Fly sparge with 6.96 gal water at 168.0 F
Notes:
------
Calichusetts
Well-Known Member
Looks good. But I know that Firestone get nearly all their IBUs at the end of the boil with late hops and steep/whirlpool
Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
mhot55
Well-Known Member
I agree. Think there will be a more of a "bitter bite" on your recipe than easy jack has. Go later in the additions. I probably wouldn't use anything more than a 15 minute hop addition. If you do throw in a bittering addition, keep it at 20 IBUs. And throw it in for a shorter time- maybe only 20-30 min addition. But can't emphasize more that you need to throw a lot of hops in LATER in the boil
Also I would cut the dry hop down to 4 or 5 days.... and in case you weren't aware firestone uses pellet hops as this is what I was told by Matt Bryndilson. Also has anyone taken a SG reading of a degassed sample, I know with union Jack and double jack mash temp is 145 for 75 minutes and 155 for 10 I am curious to see how low fg is.
OP
OP
Great! Thanks ill try and modify this tonight and repost a revised recipe on your comments. Check back tomorrow.
OP
OP
So dry hop for 3 days then add more for another 3 days? Or dry hop for 3 days then rack to another vessel and dry hop again?
Matt told me that he adds his first hop addition before primary fermentation was completely over, I've heard of other brewers doing this as well. With such a small amount being used in the dry hop I think one addition would be fine but ddicker60 is right in that union jack is two hop additions (take out the first addition and add 2nd) and double jack is 3. This is what I was told when directly talking to Matt at a beer dinner at Euclid hall during gabf last year. Pellets and the fresher the better.
Also if you do not keg you are already at a great disadvantage, I would rack to keg as soon as primary fermentation was done (be sure to purge keg with co2 before transfer and try to keep o2 exposure to a minimum) and after dry hopping is done jump the beer to a clean keg.
If you don't keg the less you transfer your product the better... i would probably skip the secondary and only do one dry hop addition.
Also if you do not keg you are already at a great disadvantage, I would rack to keg as soon as primary fermentation was done (be sure to purge keg with co2 before transfer and try to keep o2 exposure to a minimum) and after dry hopping is done jump the beer to a clean keg.
If you don't keg the less you transfer your product the better... i would probably skip the secondary and only do one dry hop addition.
Also I did not (perhaps I missed it) see what type of yeast you were planning on using, everything I've usually seen says English strain for uj/dj check these links out:
http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2012/11/ipa-clone-series-firestone-walker.html
http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2013/02/ipa-clone-series-firestone-walker-union.html
http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/656
http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2012/11/ipa-clone-series-firestone-walker.html
http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2013/02/ipa-clone-series-firestone-walker-union.html
http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/656
OP
OP
Here is the revised recipe. I have not decided on yeast yet. Comments welcome.
BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Easy Jack Clone
Brewer: Wanger
Asst Brewer:
Style: American Amber Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)
Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 8.76 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.76 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
Bottling Volume: 4.75 gal
Estimated OG: 1.045 SG
Estimated Color: 5.6 SRM
Estimated IBU: 48.7 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 85.1 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes
Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
6 lbs Pale Malt - 2 Row (Cargill) (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 64.2 %
12.8 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 8.6 %
12.8 oz Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 3 8.6 %
12.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 30L (30.0 SRM) Grain 4 8.0 %
8.0 oz Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 5 5.3 %
8.0 oz Wheat Malt (Gambrinus) (2.3 SRM) Grain 6 5.3 %
0.50 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Boil 60.0 m Hop 7 20.8 IBUs
0.25 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 8 1.9 IBUs
0.25 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Boil 15.0 m Hop 9 3.6 IBUs
0.25 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 10 1.4 IBUs
0.25 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Boil 10.0 m Hop 11 2.6 IBUs
0.25 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 12 0.8 IBUs
0.25 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Boil 5.0 mi Hop 13 1.4 IBUs
0.50 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 60 Hop 14 3.8 IBUs
0.50 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Steep/Whirl Hop 15 7.2 IBUs
0.25 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Steep/Whirl Hop 16 5.2 IBUs
0.50 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 17 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Hop 18 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Hop 19 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days Hop 20 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Hop 21 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Hop 22 0.0 IBUs
Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 9 lbs 5.6 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 15.69 qt of water at 161.2 F 150.0 F 75 min
Sparge: Fly sparge with 6.96 gal water at 168.0 F
Notes:
------
Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Easy Jack Clone
Brewer: Wanger
Asst Brewer:
Style: American Amber Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)
Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 8.76 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.76 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
Bottling Volume: 4.75 gal
Estimated OG: 1.045 SG
Estimated Color: 5.6 SRM
Estimated IBU: 48.7 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 85.1 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes
Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
6 lbs Pale Malt - 2 Row (Cargill) (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 64.2 %
12.8 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 8.6 %
12.8 oz Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 3 8.6 %
12.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 30L (30.0 SRM) Grain 4 8.0 %
8.0 oz Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 5 5.3 %
8.0 oz Wheat Malt (Gambrinus) (2.3 SRM) Grain 6 5.3 %
0.50 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Boil 60.0 m Hop 7 20.8 IBUs
0.25 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 8 1.9 IBUs
0.25 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Boil 15.0 m Hop 9 3.6 IBUs
0.25 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 10 1.4 IBUs
0.25 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Boil 10.0 m Hop 11 2.6 IBUs
0.25 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 12 0.8 IBUs
0.25 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Boil 5.0 mi Hop 13 1.4 IBUs
0.50 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 60 Hop 14 3.8 IBUs
0.50 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Steep/Whirl Hop 15 7.2 IBUs
0.25 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Steep/Whirl Hop 16 5.2 IBUs
0.50 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 17 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Hop 18 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Hop 19 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days Hop 20 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Hop 21 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Hop 22 0.0 IBUs
Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 9 lbs 5.6 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 15.69 qt of water at 161.2 F 150.0 F 75 min
Sparge: Fly sparge with 6.96 gal water at 168.0 F
Notes:
------
Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Holter
Well-Known Member
Firestone's mash schedule is a two step mash @ 145 for 60 minutes followed by a 155F rest for 10-30 minutes. You could probably just split the difference though. And yeah WLP002 is as close as youll get (because its probably the same).
I still have a tough time thinking this beer is close to 50 IBUs even though I know its what they say on the website, so I hope someone brews this soon to let us know!
I still have a tough time thinking this beer is close to 50 IBUs even though I know its what they say on the website, so I hope someone brews this soon to let us know!
OP
OP
Great so for the two step mash do I just add boiling water till I reach 155? How does the hop schedule look?
Holter
Well-Known Member
For the steps, yes you can add hot water to increase your mash temp. Your brewing software should hopefully have a tool that tells you how to do this - sorry i use a herms system so I have actually never added hot water to bump a mash - I dont want to invent bad instructions.
For the hops, brewers usually find a schedule and stick to it. If you look at the two bertus brewery links above they both have a 90 minute hop addition, a 30 minute hop addition and a 0 minute.
Look at these links too:
They are all from the horses mouth and they all follow the 90, 30, 0 minute schedule + a whirlpool. You start to see a trend - even with a beer that isn't hoppy like Walkers Reserve. I think its a safe bet to assume the hop schedule is similar with this beer. Do yourself a favor though and plug those hop schedules from Pale31 into your brewing software and set the hop utilization to Rager to match what the CYBI guys use. See if it lines up. If it doesnt, figure out how you want to emulate what that recipe produces (compared to drinking a Pale 31) against an Easy Jack recipe of your own (comparing the IBUs in a pint of Easy Jack to the Pale 31 to get an idea for compaprisons sake). That should give you a good idea of what your target IBU's should be for this clone recipe using your software.
Other comments would be that using Mosaic as a bittering hop is a waste IMO. I just drank a bottle of Easy Jack and the bitterness is so smooth and subtle that they either completely ditched the 90 minute addition or it is so miniscule that we could probably ditch it on a homebrew recipe. So I would toss that aside.
Next, I would adjust your hop distribution to follow the noted schedules from other firestone beers. Keep the ratios relatively similar too. In the Union Jack recipe they add 36g of hops @ the 30 minute mark and 104g @ the 0 minute mark. I would follow a ratio similar to that and keep in mind that the IBUs are considerably lower on a Easy Jack compared to a Union Jack. I'm not sure what hops would be used @ the 30 minute mark because I havent used the two new german varietals and we have no idea what the mix of new zealand hops are. Then load up on everything for your 0 minute and DH schedule.
Maybe something like this (i removed the stats because I didnt plug it into software - you might have to adjust the amounts to achieve your goal IBU):
Boil Hops
Whirlpool Hops
Dry Hop #1
Dry Hop #2
That is at least a good start. I stuck Nelson in there because its the most utilized NZ hop for beers like this, but to be honest I am not quite up to speed on what the latest greatest hops are that are coming out of NZ.
For the hops, brewers usually find a schedule and stick to it. If you look at the two bertus brewery links above they both have a 90 minute hop addition, a 30 minute hop addition and a 0 minute.
Look at these links too:
They are all from the horses mouth and they all follow the 90, 30, 0 minute schedule + a whirlpool. You start to see a trend - even with a beer that isn't hoppy like Walkers Reserve. I think its a safe bet to assume the hop schedule is similar with this beer. Do yourself a favor though and plug those hop schedules from Pale31 into your brewing software and set the hop utilization to Rager to match what the CYBI guys use. See if it lines up. If it doesnt, figure out how you want to emulate what that recipe produces (compared to drinking a Pale 31) against an Easy Jack recipe of your own (comparing the IBUs in a pint of Easy Jack to the Pale 31 to get an idea for compaprisons sake). That should give you a good idea of what your target IBU's should be for this clone recipe using your software.
Other comments would be that using Mosaic as a bittering hop is a waste IMO. I just drank a bottle of Easy Jack and the bitterness is so smooth and subtle that they either completely ditched the 90 minute addition or it is so miniscule that we could probably ditch it on a homebrew recipe. So I would toss that aside.
Next, I would adjust your hop distribution to follow the noted schedules from other firestone beers. Keep the ratios relatively similar too. In the Union Jack recipe they add 36g of hops @ the 30 minute mark and 104g @ the 0 minute mark. I would follow a ratio similar to that and keep in mind that the IBUs are considerably lower on a Easy Jack compared to a Union Jack. I'm not sure what hops would be used @ the 30 minute mark because I havent used the two new german varietals and we have no idea what the mix of new zealand hops are. Then load up on everything for your 0 minute and DH schedule.
Maybe something like this (i removed the stats because I didnt plug it into software - you might have to adjust the amounts to achieve your goal IBU):
Boil Hops
- 0.50 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Boil 30.0 min
- 0.50 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Boil 30.0 m
Whirlpool Hops
- 0.50 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Steep/Whirlpool
- 0.50 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Steep/Whirlpool
- 0.25 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Steep/Whirlpool
- 0.25 oz Nelson Sauvin [10.0%] - Steep/Whirlpool
Dry Hop #1
- 0.50 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Dry Hop Addition #1 for 7.0 Days
- 0.50 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Dry Hop Addition #1 for 7.0 Days
- 0.50 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Dry Hop Addition #1 for 7.0 Days
- 0.50 oz Nelson Sauvin [10.0%] - Dry Hop Addition #1 for 7.0 Days
Dry Hop #2
- 0.50 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Dry Hop Addition #2 for 3.0 Days
- 0.50 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Dry Hop Addition #2 for 3.0 Days
- 0.50 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Dry Hop Addition #2 for 3.0 Days
- 0.50 oz Nelson Sauvin [10.0%] - Dry Hop Addition #2 for 3.0 Days
That is at least a good start. I stuck Nelson in there because its the most utilized NZ hop for beers like this, but to be honest I am not quite up to speed on what the latest greatest hops are that are coming out of NZ.
OP
OP
Holter, I appreciate your very in depth comments on the recipe. I will plug your comments into beersmith tonight and tweak and repost.
OP
OP
So here is my take on the most recent comments. I added the additional Nelson at 30 because more bitterness was needed. Comments welcome again.
BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Easy Jack Clone_Ver.2
Brewer: Wanger
Asst Brewer:
Style: American IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)
Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 9.24 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.24 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 4.25 gal
Estimated OG: 1.044 SG
Estimated Color: 4.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 51.4 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 86.4 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes
Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
6 lbs Pale Malt - 2 Row (Cargill) (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 72.3 %
8.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 6.0 %
8.0 oz Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 3 6.0 %
8.0 oz Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 4 6.0 %
8.0 oz Wheat Malt (Gambrinus) (2.3 SRM) Grain 5 6.0 %
4.8 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 30L (30.0 SRM) Grain 6 3.6 %
0.50 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 7 6.6 IBUs
0.50 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Boil 30.0 m Hop 8 12.5 IBUs
0.50 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 9 17.7 IBUs
0.50 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 20 Hop 10 2.6 IBUs
0.50 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Steep/Whirl Hop 11 4.9 IBUs
0.25 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Steep/Whirl Hop 12 3.6 IBUs
0.25 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpoo Hop 13 3.5 IBUs
1.0 pkg American Ale II (Wyeast Labs #1272) [124 Yeast 14 -
0.50 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 15 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Hop 16 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Hop 17 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Da Hop 18 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days Hop 19 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Hop 20 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Hop 21 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Da Hop 22 0.0 IBUs
Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 8 lbs 4.8 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Mash In Add 14.38 qt of water at 158.7 F 148.0 F 60 min
Mash Step Add 3.55 qt of water at 187.5 F 155.0 F 30 min
Sparge: Batch sparge with 2 steps (1.63gal, 5.12gal) of 168.0 F water
Notes:
------
Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Easy Jack Clone_Ver.2
Brewer: Wanger
Asst Brewer:
Style: American IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)
Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 9.24 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.24 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 4.25 gal
Estimated OG: 1.044 SG
Estimated Color: 4.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 51.4 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 86.4 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes
Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
6 lbs Pale Malt - 2 Row (Cargill) (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 72.3 %
8.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 6.0 %
8.0 oz Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 3 6.0 %
8.0 oz Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 4 6.0 %
8.0 oz Wheat Malt (Gambrinus) (2.3 SRM) Grain 5 6.0 %
4.8 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 30L (30.0 SRM) Grain 6 3.6 %
0.50 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 7 6.6 IBUs
0.50 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Boil 30.0 m Hop 8 12.5 IBUs
0.50 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 9 17.7 IBUs
0.50 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 20 Hop 10 2.6 IBUs
0.50 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Steep/Whirl Hop 11 4.9 IBUs
0.25 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Steep/Whirl Hop 12 3.6 IBUs
0.25 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpoo Hop 13 3.5 IBUs
1.0 pkg American Ale II (Wyeast Labs #1272) [124 Yeast 14 -
0.50 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 15 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Hop 16 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Hop 17 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Da Hop 18 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days Hop 19 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Hop 20 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Hop 21 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Da Hop 22 0.0 IBUs
Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 8 lbs 4.8 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Mash In Add 14.38 qt of water at 158.7 F 148.0 F 60 min
Mash Step Add 3.55 qt of water at 187.5 F 155.0 F 30 min
Sparge: Batch sparge with 2 steps (1.63gal, 5.12gal) of 168.0 F water
Notes:
------
Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Holter
Well-Known Member
Brew it!! 
Weezy
Well-Known Member
28% is body/specialty malts & grains. It seems high to me. I'd try a lower % for my first run, 3-4% each, and add if you think it needs it in future batches
Just my $0.02.
Just my $0.02.
OP
OP
I do keg but I only have one keg empty right now and have never set up kegs for us as fermenters before so ill probably stick with buckets for this. So ill dry hop towards the end of primary fermentation (48hours in) for 7 days, remove hops then transfer vessels and dry hop again for 3 days, cold crash and keg. Hows this sounds?
Calichusetts
Well-Known Member
How did Nelson sneak into this? Its pretty distinctive and if you really are looking for a clone, I think this will be a noticeable defect. If you are just taking EJ and making something close but what you want, go for it. I'd replace it with more mosaic.
OP
OP
I think im going to stick to the hops talked about on Firestone's website. Now I know its hard to match exactly what they have with the New Zealand hops. Right now its Mosiac, Hallertau Blanc and Mandarina Bavaria. So these hops are very close to what they use.
Holter
Well-Known Member
If you read above I suggested it because of their generic "NZ" hops. And as long as it is just a component of the hop bill and not a dominant, Nelson can blend well with the other hops listed.
Calichusetts
Well-Known Member
Must have missed that. I'd see if you can get your hands on Pacifica. Its a hallertau derived NZ hop and its awesome. I did a series of single hop NZ pale ales this winter to get a hang of the flavor profiles. Wakatu would be my other choice, also hallertau-based. I just did a wheat with both after liking them so much during the single hop series
EDIT- For me personally, I think Nelson is very distinct and "wine" like aroma that is supposedly the gooseberry characteristic, just don't feel like it was in it when I drank Easy Jack
EDIT- For me personally, I think Nelson is very distinct and "wine" like aroma that is supposedly the gooseberry characteristic, just don't feel like it was in it when I drank Easy Jack
OP
OP
Looks like im going to have to do multiple version of this beer to see how each one differs. Im up for the challenge cuz i love this beer that much and its summer time which means consumption will be up haha
Holter
Well-Known Member
Sounds like a plan with the Pacifica. Ive never used it, but Ill toss out the Nelson for it.
I also agree about the high % of specialty malts. I was too focused on the hops. How does this sound to everyone?
Pale Malt - 80% (base malt)
Munich - 10% (essentially a base malt)
Carapils - 5%
Oats - 2%
Wheat - 1.5%
C-30 - 1.5%
Firestone uses 5% Carapils in Union Jack, Double Jack and Pale 31 - so that seems like a safe %. For munich across the same beers they use 7% - 15% so I chose 10% as a middle ground. I also wanted the base malt to be around 80% to go along with the %'s for the same three beers which left 5% for the oats, wheat and C-30. Union Jack uses around 1.3% caramalt, so i went with 1.5%. It was a gut decision for 2% for Oats, 1.5% for the wheat. That gives us 90% base malt (including the munich) and 10% specialty.
So the adjusted recipe would read:
Easy Jack Clone
Boil Size: 9.24 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.24 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 4.25 gal
Estimated OG: 1.044 SG
Estimated Color: 4.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 51.4 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 86.4 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes
Mash (60 minute rest @ 145F, 10 minute rest @ 155F, Mash out @ 168F)
Fermentables
Pale Malt - 80%
Munich - 10%
Carapils - 5%
Oats - 2%
Wheat - 1.5%
C-30 - 1.5%
Boil (90 Minutes)
Boil Hops
0.50 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Boil 30.0 min
0.50 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Boil 30.0 min
0.50 oz Pacifica [10.0%] - Boil 30.0 min
Whirlpool (30 Minutes Hot)
Whirlpool Hops
0.50 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Steep/Whirlpool
0.50 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Steep/Whirlpool
0.25 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Steep/Whirlpool
0.25 oz Pacifica [10.0%] - Steep/Whirlpool
Fermentation - WLP-002 @ 63F.
Dry Hop #1
0.50 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Dry Hop Addition #1 for 7.0 Days
0.50 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Dry Hop Addition #1 for 7.0 Days
0.50 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Dry Hop Addition #1 for 7.0 Days
0.50 oz Pacifica [10.0%] - Dry Hop Addition #1 for 7.0 Days
Dry Hop #2
0.50 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Dry Hop Addition #2 for 3.0 Days
0.50 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Dry Hop Addition #2 for 3.0 Days
0.50 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Dry Hop Addition #2 for 3.0 Days
0.50 oz Pacifica [10.0%] - Dry Hop Addition #2 for 3.0 Days
I also agree about the high % of specialty malts. I was too focused on the hops. How does this sound to everyone?
Pale Malt - 80% (base malt)
Munich - 10% (essentially a base malt)
Carapils - 5%
Oats - 2%
Wheat - 1.5%
C-30 - 1.5%
Firestone uses 5% Carapils in Union Jack, Double Jack and Pale 31 - so that seems like a safe %. For munich across the same beers they use 7% - 15% so I chose 10% as a middle ground. I also wanted the base malt to be around 80% to go along with the %'s for the same three beers which left 5% for the oats, wheat and C-30. Union Jack uses around 1.3% caramalt, so i went with 1.5%. It was a gut decision for 2% for Oats, 1.5% for the wheat. That gives us 90% base malt (including the munich) and 10% specialty.
So the adjusted recipe would read:
Easy Jack Clone
Boil Size: 9.24 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.24 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 4.25 gal
Estimated OG: 1.044 SG
Estimated Color: 4.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 51.4 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 86.4 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes
Mash (60 minute rest @ 145F, 10 minute rest @ 155F, Mash out @ 168F)
Fermentables
Pale Malt - 80%
Munich - 10%
Carapils - 5%
Oats - 2%
Wheat - 1.5%
C-30 - 1.5%
Boil (90 Minutes)
Boil Hops
0.50 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Boil 30.0 min
0.50 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Boil 30.0 min
0.50 oz Pacifica [10.0%] - Boil 30.0 min
Whirlpool (30 Minutes Hot)
Whirlpool Hops
0.50 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Steep/Whirlpool
0.50 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Steep/Whirlpool
0.25 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Steep/Whirlpool
0.25 oz Pacifica [10.0%] - Steep/Whirlpool
Fermentation - WLP-002 @ 63F.
Dry Hop #1
0.50 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Dry Hop Addition #1 for 7.0 Days
0.50 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Dry Hop Addition #1 for 7.0 Days
0.50 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Dry Hop Addition #1 for 7.0 Days
0.50 oz Pacifica [10.0%] - Dry Hop Addition #1 for 7.0 Days
Dry Hop #2
0.50 oz Hallertau [4.50 %] - Dry Hop Addition #2 for 3.0 Days
0.50 oz Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Dry Hop Addition #2 for 3.0 Days
0.50 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Dry Hop Addition #2 for 3.0 Days
0.50 oz Pacifica [10.0%] - Dry Hop Addition #2 for 3.0 Days
Weezy
Well-Known Member
I brew a fair number of 1.035-1.045 beers of all sorts. It's where I like to be. Layering multiple body malts and grains is Small Beer 101. It'll net you complexity and body and mouth feel without muddying the flavor. 1-1.5% is just not enough to be meaningful.
Your mash temp seems low too, but it is dependent on your system. You could use the higher special grain % and the low mash temp. Or lower % malts and higher mash temp. These small beers can be more sensitive than the typical 5.5-6.5% abv range.
Anyway, it'll be great man! it's going to be quite tasty and I don't want to groan on about little details.
Your mash temp seems low too, but it is dependent on your system. You could use the higher special grain % and the low mash temp. Or lower % malts and higher mash temp. These small beers can be more sensitive than the typical 5.5-6.5% abv range.
Anyway, it'll be great man! it's going to be quite tasty and I don't want to groan on about little details.
OP
OP
Ive been looking around at Pacifica and no one says the AA is anywhere near 10%. im seeing a 5-7%AA rating and its described as an aroma. Do you still think this should be used? If so ill bump it up to get the needed IBU.
OP
OP
So i brewed this yesterday and had a good day. Hit OG. Only tweak to the the recipe was my LHBS didnt have any Pacifica so i removed it from the recipe. Also, I ended up using London ESB I yeast not London II. So I am planning on adding the first dry hp to the fermenter during active fermentation in the next few days and then transfering to a fresh vessel and doing the second dry hop. Hopefully ill be drinking this within a 2 weeks.
Holter
Well-Known Member
Awesome, glad you brewed it. The Pacifica % was just a made up number since I have never used it either.
Calichusetts
Well-Known Member
Pacific was 5.5 the first time I used it and 5% the second. Got it from midwest supplies. Many online places carry it
OP
OP
It turned out OK. The color, ABV and IBUs are right on. The flavor and aroma hop schedules need some work tho. Needs more of a piney flavor and the aroma isnt as strong as the real EJ. Im pretty busy with things and dont know when Ill be able to brew next but when I do ill post back the revisions. In the meantime, im open to suggestions if anyone else has made this or want to make it.
Holter
Well-Known Member
I just listened to the Firestone Walker Holiday show on the brewing network where Matt talks about Mandarin Bavarian being the dominant hop in this beer - I also purchased a bit of it and through it in an extra 2.5 gallons I had on a recent brew day. It is remarkably similar to the aroma of Easy Jack, so I suspect you would need to adjust the hopping amounts so that the mandarin hop is more dominant. At some point I hope to have the time to do this myself.
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