filtering
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DoctorCAD
Well-Known Member
Look into the AllInOne wine pump and the filter suggested on that website. You'll thank me later.
Oh, and don't filter cloudy wine, just clear wine that you can see through.
Oh, and don't filter cloudy wine, just clear wine that you can see through.
pumpkinman2012
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I agree on the All In One Wine Pump I've been using mine for 4 years to rack, filter, and bottle both beer and wine, it is one of the best purchases that I've made.
I use Pentek filters , they work great!
I use Pentek filters , they work great!
pumpkinman2012
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I use a whole house filter with my All In One Wine Pump, I use a .35 micron filter, it really gives the wine a polished look, a 1 micron filter is also good, both are very affordable, the .35 micron filter will run you approx. $13.50, but I have found a .50 micron filter for $4.00 and the 1 micron filters cost approx. $4.99.
DoctorCAD
Well-Known Member
50% say yes
50% say no
Personally, I can't detect any change in my filtered wines, but I don't go down to 0.5 microns.
Firewalker11
Brewer
You can use Pentek filters and housings but Hydronix are the same filters that are re-name branded for Hydronix. Check out the link to the eBay site.
The all in one wine pump is great but its expensive. Most of it is just fancy covering of the vacuum pump, which you can also buy for a lot less on eBay if you have some basic knowledge of tubing and fittings. The one in the link above runs under $50.00 shipped and will pull a vacuum greater than the wine pump and can be used for other projects as well.
FYI: Working in a few wineries across the Upper Midwest, all of the filtering is done via a plate and frame filter set up using filters from 10µm to 0.25µm but 1µm is generally acceptable for for the lower end unless there are concerns of infection, removal of pesticides or perfectly clear wine is desired. Generally speaking, 0.5µm is the lower end of filtering for home users and will affect the overall flavor of the wine.
This is not a bad thing as most of the "flavor" is suspended yeast, tannins and other solids that when removed, give the wine better mouth feel and a glassier feel. For the home user, the 10" filter housing with a 1µm pleated filter, works well for general clarity and a second inline housing with a 0.5µm filter (spun or pleated) will allow you to have clear wine with all the solids removed.
We hardly ever filter reds but whites can be assumed to be flawed if the wine is hazy. Bottom line: Filtering is a judgement call, if you enjoy the wine as is, go for it! If the haze that remains while bottling, try filtering. Good luck!
The all in one wine pump is great but its expensive. Most of it is just fancy covering of the vacuum pump, which you can also buy for a lot less on eBay if you have some basic knowledge of tubing and fittings. The one in the link above runs under $50.00 shipped and will pull a vacuum greater than the wine pump and can be used for other projects as well.
FYI: Working in a few wineries across the Upper Midwest, all of the filtering is done via a plate and frame filter set up using filters from 10µm to 0.25µm but 1µm is generally acceptable for for the lower end unless there are concerns of infection, removal of pesticides or perfectly clear wine is desired. Generally speaking, 0.5µm is the lower end of filtering for home users and will affect the overall flavor of the wine.
This is not a bad thing as most of the "flavor" is suspended yeast, tannins and other solids that when removed, give the wine better mouth feel and a glassier feel. For the home user, the 10" filter housing with a 1µm pleated filter, works well for general clarity and a second inline housing with a 0.5µm filter (spun or pleated) will allow you to have clear wine with all the solids removed.
We hardly ever filter reds but whites can be assumed to be flawed if the wine is hazy. Bottom line: Filtering is a judgement call, if you enjoy the wine as is, go for it! If the haze that remains while bottling, try filtering. Good luck!
pumpkinman2012
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Filtering will not effect the taste of the wine, if this were the cases wineries would not filter their wines. We only filter whites, fruit wines and ciders.
As far as the All In One Wine Pump, the pump is worth every penny!
Part of what you get is the quality, I've been using mine for 4 years without any issues, and I use it a lot! Not only do I rack, filter and bottle wine, I use it for my beer as well. The pump comes as a complete ready to use pump, no need to have to figure out what else you'll need to set up a pump.
The owner, Steve, will help you with any questions that you may have. I feel like I should mention the warranty, but in the 4 yrs that I've had mine, I haven't heard anyone complain about their All In One Wine Pump.
As far as the All In One Wine Pump, the pump is worth every penny!
Part of what you get is the quality, I've been using mine for 4 years without any issues, and I use it a lot! Not only do I rack, filter and bottle wine, I use it for my beer as well. The pump comes as a complete ready to use pump, no need to have to figure out what else you'll need to set up a pump.
The owner, Steve, will help you with any questions that you may have. I feel like I should mention the warranty, but in the 4 yrs that I've had mine, I haven't heard anyone complain about their All In One Wine Pump.
Firewalker11
Brewer
To say that your wine does not change flavor with filtering is fine as you are the only one to try and verify this. At winery's, filtering is done with whites a lot, reds, not so much.
There really is no debate to be had in all of this, thousands of tests, papers, studies and closed panel tastings have been performed since filtering was invented and the conclusions have never changed. The findings have always been that you will change the flavor but not only will it change the flavor but even within the different filtering types, the character notes will change.
This is a snip from the results of the sensorial analysis of the Merlot wine filtering using three different filtering systems. One is the Dynamos system in the attached video.
Taylo most resembles the filtering we do at home due to the 10" housings and round filters, it also has the most effect on all properties of marked typical indicators such as red fruits, floral fragrance, violet, structure, typicality, pleasantness, delicacy, colour intensity.
Again, not a real debate since science has already spoken.
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Firewalker11
Brewer
It is wonderful that you are helping your friend with sales, I am glad he has this available to us and that he offers a plug in solution.
That said, home brewers and vintners alike are prone to making things from scratch and to not mention all the available solutions, in my own opinion, sounds self serving.
pumpkinman2012
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I'm not helping anyone make sales, I'm recommending a product that has worked very well for me, and hundreds of others.
The original poster, like you, can buy anything from anywhere you want, I take offense to your sounds "self serving" comment, I try to help anyone that I can, but apparently you feel the need to try to discredit what I'm posting, maybe I should have written "with the filtering systems that most home wine makers use you will not taste a difference when filtering"...does that pass your specifications?
The original poster, like you, can buy anything from anywhere you want, I take offense to your sounds "self serving" comment, I try to help anyone that I can, but apparently you feel the need to try to discredit what I'm posting, maybe I should have written "with the filtering systems that most home wine makers use you will not taste a difference when filtering"...does that pass your specifications?
Firewalker11
Brewer
"with the filtering systems that most home wine makers use you will not taste a difference when filtering" just isn't true, not universally. If you are a home vinter, you have a very narrow lane of experiences and you are claiming a near universal truth which is only established in your own experiences. No need to get all butt hurt over it, debate is debate, bring some proof or at least a study to the table next time.
P.S. I have no desire to discredit anything or anyone and I complimented you for helping out a guy that you like the equipment he makes. Time to pull up the big boy pants my friend and join the debate.
pumpkinman2012
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I'm curious, just where did you learn so much about me that you can make this claim?
I'm not even sure what "all butt hurt" means, but I'm sure that you have a wide lane of experiences in it, no need to bring any studies supporting this.
I can appreciate the way you try to spin your words, but saying that it's wonderful that I'm helping a friend make sales followed by "in my own opinion, sounds self serving" doesn't make it a compliment.
No, I'm good, I'm fairly certain that you'll try to find every variation of any answer that i'll give.
I know a lot of wine makers, a handful are commercial wine makers, others really should be, they make some of the best wine that I've had, I also know a few incredible home brewers, these are the guys that are winning medals at state and I believe one national competition, these guys all have one thing in common, humility and a genuine desire to help others, they make their point without being arrogant.
As much as I would like to continue to benefit from your hands on knowledge, I think that I'll pass.
Firewalker11
Brewer
OK, back to the OP:
You may wish to look around some for solutions, the prices vary wildly and your results will also vary from others depending on your method etc. Good luck with your adventure!:rockin:
Mismost
Well-Known Member
Firewalker...that video clip was about as worthless as tits on a boar hog. Do you have one in English? However, I do see how it supports your statement about changing the flavor of the wine...I could plainly see that! Filter this "mud" and now it looks like something decent to drink and yeah, I bet it did change the flavor and made it better! But, I do travel in a very narrow lane myself.
Firewalker11
Brewer
Firewalker...that video clip was about as worthless as tits on a boar hog. Do you have one in English? However, I do see how it supports your statement about changing the flavor of the wine...I could plainly see that! Filter this "mud" and now it looks like something decent to drink and yeah, I bet it did change the flavor and made it better! But, I do travel in a very narrow lane myself.
Wait, are you two dating? Ever notice how tense people get when there is a truth that they wish to dismiss? Narrow lanes, wide lanes, filter or not, what do I care?
Cheers all!
DoctorCAD
Well-Known Member
Your "truth", not a universal truth.
Firewalker11
Brewer
Lovely, a trois! Interesting observations all, I'll leave you alone to ponder where flies come from too, no need to introduce science here, you all have your hard-wired "Truth" you live in all the while those that actually sell the stuff commercially are living in their own "truth" apparently.
Hey! Are you all members of the flat earth society too?
DoctorCAD
Well-Known Member
Geeze...whatadik.
Firewalker11
Brewer
Mirror?
Really, do you guys NOT ever visit wineries? Ever saw one, just one single one that does not have/use filters? I'm not a dik, I am just honest about that the world outside of this little club here does and when a new person comes in and asks SPECIFICALLY if a certain system works, all you diks work hard to shut him down, me down, just so you can force others to tow the line?
Filtering is necessary in all sorts of environments, maybe not yours in particular but in a lot of home vintners. So why fight so hard against it and then say equivocally that filtering does not change the taste when you DONT filter so you would have no idea if it does or does not?
Do you NEED to filter? Oh Hell no but you can and I bet there are wines that even you three could have made better wines if you weren't so darn stuck in your methodology, you may even learn a little and then give back at a higher level then you are already at.
If that makes me a dik, Ill change my signature to reflect that. Now, care to offer some balance or will your egos rule you? Mine does at times, I assure you but not on this. Balance, guys, balance, no need to fight.
Really, do you guys NOT ever visit wineries? Ever saw one, just one single one that does not have/use filters? I'm not a dik, I am just honest about that the world outside of this little club here does and when a new person comes in and asks SPECIFICALLY if a certain system works, all you diks work hard to shut him down, me down, just so you can force others to tow the line?
Filtering is necessary in all sorts of environments, maybe not yours in particular but in a lot of home vintners. So why fight so hard against it and then say equivocally that filtering does not change the taste when you DONT filter so you would have no idea if it does or does not?
Do you NEED to filter? Oh Hell no but you can and I bet there are wines that even you three could have made better wines if you weren't so darn stuck in your methodology, you may even learn a little and then give back at a higher level then you are already at.
If that makes me a dik, Ill change my signature to reflect that. Now, care to offer some balance or will your egos rule you? Mine does at times, I assure you but not on this. Balance, guys, balance, no need to fight.
DoctorCAD
Well-Known Member
P.S. I filter...
Mismost
Well-Known Member
Come on Firewalker, chill out. Did you not notice the little smiley face? it was put there to convey a light-hearted note! I just don't speak French, nor read it well either....hence, it was not very useful to me with my limited education. Not meant to be a rock thrown in your direction.
Most of here do live in a very narrow lane...my "winery" is the corner of my desk...it's a plastic bucket. We don't use 10" hoses and fittings, heck we could not even begin to fill the hoses up! You scale is simply mind boggling to most of us. I can not afford to spent thousands on industrial grade pumps and filters...heck most of my gear was bought second hand off Craigslist.
I do like hearing about your commercial set ups! I do a fair amount of work at that little brewery in Shiner Texas. Love walking around and looking at 30' tall vessels that do the same thing as my 5 gallon plastic bucket. It boggles the mind.
Breathe deep, relax, turn the fire down. Emails and forum comments are flat, and often times read in completely different tones than they were written in. Smile more.
Firewalker11
Brewer
Come on Firewalker, chill out. Did you not notice the little smiley face? it was put there to convey a light-hearted note! I just don't speak French, nor read it well either....hence, it was not very useful to me with my limited education. Not meant to be a rock thrown in your direction.
Most of here do live in a very narrow lane...my "winery" is the corner of my desk...it's a plastic bucket. We don't use 10" hoses and fittings, heck we could not even begin to fill the hoses up! You scale is simply mind boggling to most of us. I can not afford to spent thousands on industrial grade pumps and filters...heck most of my gear was bought second hand off Craigslist.
I do like hearing about your commercial set ups! I do a fair amount of work at that little brewery in Shiner Texas. Love walking around and looking at 30' tall vessels that do the same thing as my 5 gallon plastic bucket. It boggles the mind.
Breathe deep, relax, turn the fire down. Emails and forum comments are flat, and often times read in completely different tones than they were written in. Smile more.
Gotcha! Thanks for the talk down, I didn't even look for the smiley I am afraid.
regarding potential changes of taste when using a filter;
I read that many wineries use filters so it probably doesnt change taste. But whats more interesting is that there is something called bottle shock. I dont know what happens when wine get bottle shock, but its likely that wine will experience bottle shock effect when being filtered, meaning that the changes of taste will be gone after 1-2 weeks.
i will try finding an inexpensive 0.5 micron filter. I got a 1 micron filter from Enolmatic but its expensive.
I read that many wineries use filters so it probably doesnt change taste. But whats more interesting is that there is something called bottle shock. I dont know what happens when wine get bottle shock, but its likely that wine will experience bottle shock effect when being filtered, meaning that the changes of taste will be gone after 1-2 weeks.
i will try finding an inexpensive 0.5 micron filter. I got a 1 micron filter from Enolmatic but its expensive.
Firewalker11
Brewer
If you do find an affordable 0.5u absolute filter, I would be interested in getting the info from you. This is part of the reason why at home, I stay with a 1u filter, the price difference is $5.00 for the 1u to $90.00 for the 0.5u absolute!
I'll leave the taste change alone since I think the taste change is a good thing and not a detractor.
Cheers!
