I have brewed about 6 all-grain beers and it seems like my FG is never low enough. Most of the time I Primary ferment for 7 days and secondary for 7 days, the hydrometer reading stops dropping and levels out when it is 5 to 10 points above where the FG should be. I airerate with a fish tank pump and air stone for about 5 minutes before pitching the yeast (always White Labs) and use a yeast nutrient. Should I be using a yeast starter?
FG is never low enough
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motobrewer
I'm no atheist scientist, but...
i would primary for longer than 7 days. 14 at least.
what temps are you mashing at?
what temps are you mashing at?
motobrewer
I'm no atheist scientist, but...
couple things:
yes, use a starter.
try mashing lower, especially for beers over 1.055 and lagers. I mash my oktoberfest at 149. Heck, i mash my IPA at 149. nice and dry.
ferment longer.
wait, are you the cloudy lager dude? am I stalking you? i must be really bored.
side note, 1000th post.
yes, use a starter.
try mashing lower, especially for beers over 1.055 and lagers. I mash my oktoberfest at 149. Heck, i mash my IPA at 149. nice and dry.
ferment longer.
wait, are you the cloudy lager dude? am I stalking you? i must be really bored.
side note, 1000th post.
TipsyDragon
Well-Known Member
lower your mash temp a few degrees. leave it in the primary for 2 weeks. aerate for 20-30 minutes not 5. always make a starter if your using liquid yeast. make sure your fermentation temps don't drop to low.
SpanishCastleAle
Well-Known Member
I would strongly suggest getting the yeast/fermentation right before adjusting your mash temps/etc. If you don't it's a like a dog chasing it's tail. You'll mash lower to get a lower FG but the fermentation is still lacking and you'll just end up with thin beer (but you'll hit your FG). Then you'll try to fix the thin-beer-syndrome and so on and so on...
Def make starters. Try using a pitch rate calculator like the Mr Malty version and also read the Mr Malty 14 Essential Questions About Yeast Starters. Aerate well and make sure the wort is cool when you aerate it. Then do Fast Ferment Tests, only takes 3/4 cup or so of wort and some extra yeast (just rinse out the starter vessel after pitching with 3/4 cup of wort and put in a 1/2 pint mason jar with the lid loose). Also read the Understanding Attenuation article linked in that FFT article.
Def make starters. Try using a pitch rate calculator like the Mr Malty version and also read the Mr Malty 14 Essential Questions About Yeast Starters. Aerate well and make sure the wort is cool when you aerate it. Then do Fast Ferment Tests, only takes 3/4 cup or so of wort and some extra yeast (just rinse out the starter vessel after pitching with 3/4 cup of wort and put in a 1/2 pint mason jar with the lid loose). Also read the Understanding Attenuation article linked in that FFT article.
I am all over this answer. Mashing at 154°F is fine. I have done dozens at that temp and they finish, no problem. I think inadequate aeration and lack of a starter is the root of your problem. Add to that the fact you are taking the beer off the cake way too early and you have a situation where the yeast are not being allowed to finish their job. Go 3 - 4 weeks in primary min and skip secondary unless you need to dry-hop, add fruit, etc.
Bizoune
Well-Known Member
You've got some numbers for us? OG, projected FG, malt bill, ferm. temps?
I'd skip secondary, aerate doing the old carboy shaking method for 10-15 minutes and leave in carboy for a minimum of 14ish days. A yeast starter is always a good idea. If that's not an option, go with dry yeast. Nottingham or Safale S-04 or S-05.
I'd skip secondary, aerate doing the old carboy shaking method for 10-15 minutes and leave in carboy for a minimum of 14ish days. A yeast starter is always a good idea. If that's not an option, go with dry yeast. Nottingham or Safale S-04 or S-05.
indigi
Well-Known Member
I leave my beer in primary for 10 days before I even think about checking the gravity. Just because it's not bubbling every minute doesn't mean fermentation's done. I'd suggest trying out a two-week primary first before anything else to see if that fixes it up for you. If you're making beer with an OG under 1.050, you don't need a starter(although it couldn't hurt) to hit a respectable FG.
+1. I have had great results with everything posted above
always starter liquid yeast, and primary for at least 11-14
wilceaser
Well-Known Member
You should also check your water chemistry. You may be missing some salts in your mash that are ressposnisble for proper attenuation and yeast health.
samc
Well-Known Member
As others have stated, longer primary - no secondary. As an experiment I would try a dry yeast like S05 before doing a starter with liquid. That will help eliminate a lot of other factors.
ctoungette
Active Member
If you listen to jamil and John palmer they suggest leaving in Primary much longer. I let my beer sit in primary fro at least 3 weeks but usally 4. Anything longer than that I secondary. Even though your beer has dropped to expected FG, the yeast is still working and cleaning up after its self.
All good stuff here.
Starter for liquid yeast (most of the time), unless it's a hefeweisen or lower than 1.050 and you're feeling lazy.
5 minutes of pumped air is not long enough. You need 15-30 minutes of that to reach 8ppm. Shaking the fermenter is actually faster.
Longer primary, at least 2 weeks.
If you like to ferment at the low end of the temp range for the yeast, ramp up a couple degrees after 7 days.
Mash lower than you have been, but the real question is are you SURE you mash at 154F or is that just what your thermometer is telling you. Have you checked it in icewater and boiling water?
Starter for liquid yeast (most of the time), unless it's a hefeweisen or lower than 1.050 and you're feeling lazy.
5 minutes of pumped air is not long enough. You need 15-30 minutes of that to reach 8ppm. Shaking the fermenter is actually faster.
Longer primary, at least 2 weeks.
If you like to ferment at the low end of the temp range for the yeast, ramp up a couple degrees after 7 days.
Mash lower than you have been, but the real question is are you SURE you mash at 154F or is that just what your thermometer is telling you. Have you checked it in icewater and boiling water?
+1 to all the good info on this post. I will second Bobby's thoughts on how certain are you of your thermometer. I was thinking the same thing. As to your aeration, try swirling the carboy while you inject with the aquarium pump. The pump by itself will not get you there in 5 minutes.
spiny_norman
Well-Known Member
I had a problem with under attenuation for the longest time. Turned out I just wasn't pitching enough healthy yeast. I typically aim for 149 in my mash but in my last batch I missed my numbers (154) and I still got 80% atten (WLP001). For an OG around 1077 I do a 2L starter 2 or 3 days before (stir plate), cool, and on brew day decant and top up with another 1L wort 6 hours before pitching (+ I aerate and use yeast nutrient). I get visible signs of fermentation in less than 2 hours. I leave it in primary for 3 weeks, and then cold crash for another week. Works for me, and the beer tastes a heck of a lot better as well.
