Ffuuuuuuuuuu!!!!!

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
greencoat

greencoat

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
517
Reaction score
19
Location
Dayton, OH
I'm 30 min deep in my mash and realized I have no starsan left. SWMBO used the last of the bleach cleaning the house a week ago and my car is broken in a parking lot way across town. WHAT'S A BOY TO DO?
 
I whipped up a super concentrated batch of oxyclean and scrubbed like mad. I know it isn't sanitized but it turned out with no problems. Might have gotten lucky, dunno.
 
boiling water where its safe, vodka where it isnt, just make sure to let it sit for a long time.
 
Can't drive, I only have a glass carboy open so boiling water is no good, and I don't have a hard liquor in the house. I do have an unopened tub of Oxyclean . . . here's hoping.
 
Revvy said:
Did you miss this part?



Know any brewers in your area who can bring you some sanitizer?

Do you have any iodine in the house?
Click to expand...

My padawon is coming over with some Starsan in a few hours. I called him first, but had to leave a message. Crisis averted!
 
Nice! You owe that man a beer. :D

It got me wondering, would there be anything wrong with using hydrogen peroxide?
 
Forest of Austin Homebrew said in a thread somewhere (don't ask me where), "that oxyclean has an acid in it that actually sanitizes in like 10-15 minutes of contact time."

Maybe if someone reads this thread later on they will see this and use it. Good to see someone helped you out.
 
HalfPint said:
Forest of Austin Homebrew said in a thread somewhere (don't ask me where), "that oxyclean has an acid in it that actually sanitizes in like 10-15 minutes of contact time."

Maybe if someone reads this thread later on they will see this and use it. Good to see someone helped you out.
Click to expand...

Doesn't surprise me. I accidentally burned some skin off my toes using PBW which is similar to Oxyclean. It had been soaking on my socks for an hour or so. Definitely added an extra element to my morning run the next few days.
 
lessons can be learned nearly any time beer is made:

1. ensure stock of chosen sanitizer is refreshed with ingredient purchases

2. own AT LEAST 3 cars... you just might roll one, and need to fix another, leaving a working vehicle

3. don't use bleach unless boiling water is not compatible with object. bleaching and rinsing sort of defeats "sanititization"

4. relax and drink a brew and jerk off (away from beer)

5. urine is the most dumbassed answer i have ever read on here
 
I aim to please.

Also, maybe I need to use smiley faces or something to make it obvious when I'm not being serious. Because people on the internet are apparently VERY SERIOUS and don't like my humor.
 
Urine is sligtly acidic and sterial as long as you not sick. As far as contact time IDK. But if that's not your jive there is uv sanitaion for you car boy.
 
Some thoughts:
  • Any hard spirit - I know you don't have any
  • Ammonia - must be rinsed thoroughly with already boiled water
  • Hydrogen Peroxide - Food safe, but I can't guarantee it won't produce any off-flavors if not properly rinsed
  • White Vinegar - same thoughts as hydrogen peroxide...
  • Concentrated Lemon Juice - Mmmm, lemony.

Edit: Oh, and any mouthwash containing phenolics (listerine)
 
Well, in a true display of camaraderie and class, my sanitizing savior managed to 'forget' to come over and ate an eighth of mushrooms instead.

SWMBO found a little over a cap full of bleach in our roommate's bathroom. Hope he doesn't mind I use the last of his stuff. Le sigh.
 
GateTwelve said:
[*]Hydrogen Peroxide - Food safe, but I can't guarantee it won't produce any off-flavors if not properly rinsed
Click to expand...

I would be interested to know what off flavors could be produced by water with an extra oxygen molecule attached.
 
HalfPint said:
Forest of Austin Homebrew said in a thread somewhere (don't ask me where), "that oxyclean has an acid in it that actually sanitizes in like 10-15 minutes of contact time."

Maybe if someone reads this thread later on they will see this and use it. Good to see someone helped you out.
Click to expand...

Sorta. If you combine sodium percarbonate (oxyclean, one step) with water you produce hydrogen peroxide which is a weak acid. Hydrogen peroxide's fungicidal and microbicidal activity is not related to its being an acid though.

People have used and continue to use one step, which is substantially identical to oxy clean, as a sanitizer for years so its probably okay but far from ideal.

Campden was the right answer btw, ten points to netjunk1e.
 
This is a NO RINSE sanitizer that is a stone cold killer.

5 Gallons water
1 ounce chlorox or any bleach
1 ounce vinegar

Kills as well as star san, doesn't keep so well, and ought not to give you off flavors.
 
Cliff897 said:
This is a NO RINSE sanitizer that is a stone cold killer.

5 Gallons water
1 ounce chlorox or any bleach
1 ounce vinegar

Kills as well as star san, doesn't keep so well, and ought not to give you off flavors.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't classify anything containing sodium hypochlorite (bleach) as no rinse. It contributes off-flavors to beer, and when mixed with an acid, releases chlorine.
 
You can totally use boiling water btw. Just don't add it all at once to avoid thermal shock. Pour in a couple quarts, shake it around to bring the carboy's temp up slowly, add some more etc. In the end you'll get enough sanitize-temp water in there....let it sit while stoppered and let it cool that way through your brew so you don't have to handle a giant glass boiling water grenade.


this is of course a desperation method.
 
GateTwelve said:
I wouldn't classify anything containing sodium hypochlorite (bleach) as no rinse. It contributes off-flavors to beer, and when mixed with an acid, releases chlorine.
Click to expand...

In a pinch, it is pretty damn good. Drained and dry the bottles and gear won't carry enough to detect.
At that titration it can't even denature the chromatophores in your ancient Persian hand woven rug.

It ain't Star San but then ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Hell, Even Star San's creator Chemist ( C. Talley) says that titration of bleach and vinegar is no rinse. He is where I learned it.
 
I still have two problems with that suggestion:
The chlorine gas byproduct is one. And secondly, when mixed with an acid (vinegar), chlorine is produced, rather than than reactive O2, which is what gives bleach its sanitizing and bleaching properties. The only thing left that seems like it would do any good would be the acidic vinegar itself. So, why not just use the vinegar, and skip the chlorine?

Plus, at a rate of 2 tbsp of bleach to 5 gallons of water gives a bleach solution of 0.0015625%. The CDC recommendations for sanitizing water storage containers (let alone warm, sugary, bacteria havens) is a water/bleach solution of 0.0416666666625%, which is over 25x stronger, not even counting the amount of bleach which may be rendered useless by the acidic vinegar.
 
GateTwelve said:
I still have two problems with that suggestion:
The chlorine gas byproduct is one.
Click to expand...

I hear ya. At that titration you won't be getting any. At least, not any you can measure without a vacuum chamber and a quadrapole mass spectrometer.

And secondly, when mixed with an acid (vinegar), chlorine is produced, rather than than reactive O2, which is what gives bleach its sanitizing and bleaching properties.
Click to expand...

Without remarking on the O2 notion, the mix you'll get will be at 80 ppm chlorine ( assuming 5-6% chlorine in the bleach) with the proper caustic adjustment from the vinegar for the correct solution with hypochloric acid (HCOI) which is the lethal agent needed in the solution I offered.


The only thing left that seems like it would do any good would be the acidic vinegar itself. So, why not just use the vinegar, and skip the chlorine?
Click to expand...

No. The solution strength of the vinegar is not the same as 5% chlorine.

Plus, at a rate of 2 tbsp of bleach to 5 gallons of water gives a bleach solution of 0.0015625%.
Click to expand...

It's 80 ppm


The CDC recommendations for sanitizing water storage containers (let alone warm, sugary, bacteria havens) is a water/bleach solution of 0.0416666666625%, which is over 25x stronger, not even counting the amount of bleach which may be rendered useless by the acidic vinegar.
Click to expand...

I can't help you with the CDC's problems. Maybe they like to kill things several times over and then kill 'em again a few more, then nuke 'em, and then autoclave 'em, and then have a house fire?
Just because the CDC says something doesn't mean that there are not a dozen other ways to skin the cat.

Here, don't take my word - I ain't no chemist -
Listen to the Chem Engineer Charley Talley who invented Star San tell you all about it: http://cdn4.libsyn.com/basicbrewing...16&nva=20100128204516&t=059564616b8b08c601f55
and
http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/archive/dwnldarchive03-19-06.mp3

I was somewhat surprised that in a discussion where he was fronting his product that he flat out said that bleach vinegar and water was a great and completely effective sanitizing solution and even that it was no rinse.
Talk about selling your product. But he's an engineer, not a marketing geek.
 
Taxi cab to the HBS. They might do it for free since I'm sure it's a first for them and they will have a great story to tell!
 
Oxyclean/Sun Oxygen, etc..., is percarbonate based plus ???? (surfactants mostly) and is a sanitiser with a long contact time. It's also a rinse based cleaner/sanitiser which means you'll just need the hot water anyways.
 
GateTwelve said:
I still have two problems with that suggestion:
The chlorine gas byproduct is one. And secondly, when mixed with an acid (vinegar), chlorine is produced, rather than than reactive O2, which is what gives bleach its sanitizing and bleaching properties. The only thing left that seems like it would do any good would be the acidic vinegar itself. So, why not just use the vinegar, and skip the chlorine?

Plus, at a rate of 2 tbsp of bleach to 5 gallons of water gives a bleach solution of 0.0015625%. The CDC recommendations for sanitizing water storage containers (let alone warm, sugary, bacteria havens) is a water/bleach solution of 0.0416666666625%, which is over 25x stronger, not even counting the amount of bleach which may be rendered useless by the acidic vinegar.
Click to expand...

When using bleach, surface sanitation is effective at 50ppm which is the minimum required by most Health Departments in a commercial kitchen application. This is 1tsp per gallon. When working with clean surfaces like a precleaned carboy and misc. tools, 50ppm is sufficient when allowed time. It is NOT no-rinse. Your numbers call for a solution of 2000ppm which is well beyond overkill for our purpose.
Furthermore, sugar and acid inhibit the growth of bacteria so the slightly acidic, sweet nature of wort is already an unhappy place for bacteria and mold and only gets less hospitable as the sugar turns to alcohol.
 
I am not sure I have ever seen such a compilation of poor reading, modded posts, bad advice, and stupid comments, misunderstood humor, and general Bedlam. There was even a savior forgetting to save due to shrooming...

Luckily, it looks like all ends well and the incorrect facts have been righted.
 

Similar threads

Arbe0
stuff from HERMS coil
Replies
13
Views
602
Arbe0
Arbe0
S
BS Remover Uses?
Replies
12
Views
946
FswBG
FswBG
Zenmeister
How many rinses of PBW do you do?
Replies
12
Views
684
Bassman2003
B
D
Years long infections
Replies
30
Views
1K
depecid
D
T
Low Carbonation
Replies
16
Views
690
mac_1103
mac_1103
SSBrew 300

Latest posts

Back
Top