Fermentation / Green Apples / Kegging Process

[gishua]

Hey there,
I have been searching for a reason for my beer to come out as it does and wanted to see if someone can lend a hand.

Here is what my process / latest recipe is and the results:

• I brewed an extract brew from Northern Brew called Chinook IPA.
• I left in primary 4 weeks and dry hopped for 5 days within the primary.
• I then transferred straight to pin lock 5 gallon corny keg
• Once in the keg, I purged Oxygen with CO2 and left
• I left keg on CO2 for 2 weeks so it is fully carbed
• I tried a small cup off the keg and it tastes sweet/sour/apple like, but not exactly cider like

A few of my beers have come out like this and I have a few ideas after reading of why this may happen:

________

Here are a few issues / things to consider from my process:

1. First off, I bought a fermentation bag that I put 2L bottles of ice in to keep fermentation temps consistent.

2. I added LME at the beginning of boil instead of at flame out as I have recently read this may cause a "Twang". Would this cause that flavor? Is Twang the green apple sugary taste?

3. I put keg right into fridge and left it in there to carb. Did it not have enough time to condition at regular room temp? Does beer condition as well at colder temps?

4. I have now pulled the beer out of the fridge and I was going to let it sit for 2-3 weeks.

5. I have done a few Partial Mashes and they don't seem to have this taste. They still have a little sweeter taste than I would like, but not like this.
________

So in summary what exactly do I do to fix my beer problem. What could be the issue? I clean everything with OXYCLEAN & sanitize with StarSan.

Thanks in advance for all who take a look and help. I don't want to throw out any more beer! LOL.

Thanks

Josh

 

[billl]

The green apple taste is almost certainly Acetaldehyde. It's a yeast byproduct produced during fermentation. If you are getting noticable amounts of it after 4 weeks, you had stressed yeast. The most likely causes are 1) Not pitching enough yeast (did you make a starter?) 2) Not controlling fermentation temps 3) Not aerating well

 

[gishua]

I did not make a starter, it was S-04 yeast so i would not need super low fermenation temps. So is this beer toast? Should I let it sit a bit? And what is the proper order of putting keg in fridge after fermentation?

Thanks,
Josh

 

[normonster]

What about aeration? And did you check final gravity?

For my IPAs I use s05 which can handle higher ferm temps...2 packs for a big IPA. Then aerate like crazy with a aquarium pump setup.

Bummer about the off flavors especially cuz you have so much time into it. I'd let it lager for a few weeks as cold as possible and then drink it. Cold storage really helps. Don't dump it.

 

[billl]

Not sure where you are getting the temp info on S-04, but it doesn't deal well with high temp. You want mid to upper 60's. That is beer temp, not room temp.

The beer isn't toast. Just let it sit at room temps and it will eventually clear up. It might take a month or 2 though.

The proper order for kegging is 1) let the beer finish at room temp until it tastes good. 2) Put in keg (or crash cool and then put in keg, your choice) 3) Chill or carbonate however you want. Once it's tasty beer, it doesn't really matter.

How long step 1 takes is largely dependent on the conditions during fermentation. If you had perfect fermentation conditions, you could have a dry hopped IPA in a keg in under 2 weeks. If you had fermentation issues, it might take months to be decent.

 

[gishua]

Sorry guys typo - it was S-05. That's what northern brew recommended since I live in florida.

So basically if my fermenter smells "Apple" like then the yeast didn't work enough? I don't see alot of activity in the ferementer / blow off during my brews.

As far as kegging, the carbonation doesn't effect the taste at all? Should i throw more yeast in now?

All good stuff from you guys.

 

[bragona71]

props to sixxpoint for this link in a different thread

http://bjcp.org/faults.php


I had my first 3 IPA recipes come out with a similar off taste, I cant describe it but I started tweaking the water and have resolved the issue

 

[gishua]

Yeah I have looked into those different beer tastes & smells, just can't pinpoint it. Any definites out there I should make sure I try next time?

 

[normonster]

Aerate your wort so fermentation finishes.

 

[McKnuckle]

People have given good advice. Be kind to your yeast - it makes your beer!

Aerate your wort before pitching so the yeast has oxygen to enable its growth phase before it starts fermenting. Pitch enough of the yeast; if necessary, make a starter. Wait to pitch until the liquid temperature is in the right range for the strain - neither too cold nor too warm. Again, that means temperature of the liquid, not of the room. The liquid will get hotter than the room when fermentation becomes vigorous, and could get out of control if you start too warm.

Not enough oxygen, not enough yeast, too cold, too warm - all of these conditions place stress on the yeast and cause it to spit out undesirable compounds.

During fermentation, do not introduce any more oxygen, and minimize contact with the liquid, being sure to sanitize any gizmo that you submerge. Allow the yeast to reach final gravity; at least a week should pass before you do anything. Move to a warmer spot near the very end for a day or two to encourage the yeast to metabolize fermentation byproducts; these might otherwise cause the beer to have unpleasant flavors. Finally, allow it to sit for a few more days either cool or cold to flocculate (clump), settle, and drop. Fourteen days minimum should elapse before you package. Others wait 3 weeks.

Result - clear, clean, stable, tasty beer that is ready for packaging.

 

[gishua]

Sweet, going to try to aerate with a whisk and possibly buy an aerator. Thanks again guys. Appreciate it.

 

[McKnuckle]

One of the simplest ways to aerate is just to pour the wort somewhat aggressively into the fermenter. Make sure it's 80F or cooler, but don't hold back. Create bubbles. (Note: This is the only time in the entire brewing process you can do it!) Pour through a strainer or just use the open air from a decent height. I know that some people have dedicated aeration equipment, but I've never had an issue using simple physics to do it.

 

[gishua]

Yes I mean I already do this, so I am not sure this is the culprit. I'm going to try Distilled Water or RO Water, aerate well, ptich the yeast @ sub 70F and keep the temps around 60F for fermentation.

 

[McKnuckle]

I'm going to try Distilled Water or RO Water

Well, this is a Pandora's box... Distilled or RO without mineral augmentation will not make good beer, for several reasons that go beyond just yeast health. One thing at a time!

 

[gishua]

ok no worries. just use tap w/ campdens again

 

[Yooper]

Well, this is a Pandora's box... Distilled or RO without mineral augmentation will not make good beer, for several reasons that go beyond just yeast health. One thing at a time!

Not so- 100% RO water will make excellent beer. That's my preferred choice, and many others as well. It's especially great for extract brewing.

 

[McKnuckle]

It's especially great for extract brewing.

I've brewed all grain since the get-go. Anyway I don't think that RO is a generally good prescription for all beer styles, so I wouldn't want to mislead our OP.

 

[Yooper]

I've brewed all grain since the get-go. Anyway I don't think that RO is a generally good prescription for all beer styles, so I wouldn't want to mislead our OP.

Well, it is in my opinion, not that I'm an expert. It's low in alkalinity which is the biggest problem with folks that use tap water. Using it means that the mash will convert more readily than someone with highly alkaline water, that the mash pH may be a little high but not overly so (due to the lack of alkalinity), it's chlorine/chloramine free, it won't make bad beer (ever), and it's easy to come by and cheap.

If someone is paranoid about using RO water, and wants to add a little calcium chloride to it to ensure that it's not 'plain' water, that's great but not necessary. It will make far better beer, even without any additions, than many tap waters if people don't know what's in their tap water or how to treat it.