Feedback on sweet NEIPA recipe

[royger]

Hello,

I'm planning to brew a sweet NEIPA, but I don't want to add fruit so I'm not sure whether I would call this a milkshake IPA. I would like to use Idaho #7 since I've never used it, but I'm not sure if I should pair it with other hops. This is what I have at the moment:

Sweet home Idaho
New England IPA
6.2% / 17.3 °P

BIAB
65% efficiency
Batch Volume: 24 L (Kettle)
Fermenter Volume: 21.04 L
Boil Time: 40 min

Mash Water: 29.04 L
Sparge Water: 3.18 L
Total Water: 32.22 L
Boil Volume: 26.67 L
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.058

Vitals
Original Gravity: 1.071
Final Gravity: 1.024
IBU (Tinseth): 7
Color: 12.2 EBC

Mash
Temperature — 67 °C — 45 min


Malts (7.4 kg)
2 kg (25.3%) — Oats, Flaked — Grain — 2 EBC
2 kg (25.3%) — Thomas Fawcett Pale Malt, Golden Promise — Grain — 5.9 EBC
2 kg (25.3%) — Thomas Fawcett Pale Malt, Maris Otter — Grain — 5.9 EBC
1 kg (12.7%) — Weyermann Munich I — Grain — 14 EBC
400 g (5.1%) — Weyermann Acidulated — Grain — 3.5 EBC

Other (500 g)
500 g (6.3%) — Milk Sugar (Lactose) — Sugar — 0 EBC

Hops (250 g)
100 g (7 IBU) — Idaho #7 13% — Aroma — 30 min hopstand @ 65 °C
25 g — Idaho #7 13% — Dry Hop — 7 days
125 g — Idaho #7 13% — Dry Hop — 3 days

Miscs
6 g — Calcium Chloride (CaCl2) — Mash
4 g — Canning Salt (NaCl) — Mash
3 g — Gypsum (CaSO4) — Mash

Yeast
1 pkg — Wyeast Labs 1318 London Ale III

Fermentation
Primary — 20 °C — 10 days

Carbonation: 2.3 CO2-vol

Water Profile
Ca+2 128
Mg+2 17
Na+ 75
Cl- 177
SO4-2 82
HCO3- 275

I'm aiming towards a sweet and very fruity result, trying to push the fruitiness of Idaho #7.

Thanks!

 

[MrPowers]

I know you’re going for sweet, but I think you’re gonna need more IBU’s for it to be drinkable.

I like the grain bill, I like the Idaho 7, but I think you need to bump it up to at least 30-50 IBU with something neutral at 60.

 

[Jag75]

Yeah I agree with MrPowers. I shoot for approximately 30 ibu for a NEIPA.

 

[Dgallo]

So I see you’re using the metric system, so I just want to make sure there is not a translation issue(not poking fun by any means, my in-laws are from mexico and when my father in law thinks something looks really cool or bad ass, Like a lifted truck he says “its cute” due to translation barriers)

So do you mean “sweet” as in terms of candy sweetness (think imperial milk stout) or sweet as in fruit juice like

 

[Jag75]

Lol @Dgallo !!


I think hes wanting that sweet juicy profile. Milkshake IPA maybe . I've never used Idaho 7 so I cant say .

 

[Dgallo]

Lol @Dgallo !!


I think hes wanting that sweet juicy profile. Milkshake IPA maybe . I've never used Idaho 7 so I cant say .

Lol I didn’t fully read the top, went from title to recipe.

If that’s the case, brew it as a Typical NE IPA with 30-50 ibus and then add 1-1.5 lbs of lactose. I personally would not use Idaho 7 which in my experience of it in beer is very herbaceous/earth. Great hop for NEIPA but doesn’t scream milkshake or juicy at all to me as a single hop. I’d use Citra, mosaic, Galaxy, and/or other fruit forward hops. I’d even make sure to dryhop with El Dorado to bring even more candi like sweetness to the beer if that was my final goal

 

[RCope]

So...I've used quite a bit of Idaho 7. Most would agree that it is best on the hot side. If you want fruit forward then I'd add some Citra and/or Galaxy (or other fruity hop) to the dry hop and a bit in the whirlpool. If you want ID 7 in the mix on the cold side then maybe only 25 grams or so (with 100 gms or more of fruitier hops). I'd also drop the MO and just double up on the Golden Promise. Maybe switch out some of the flaked oats for oat malt and perhaps some wheat malt. There! Now you have one of my recipes . Your results may vary...

 

[royger]

I know you’re going for sweet, but I think you’re gonna need more IBU’s for it to be drinkable.

I like the grain bill, I like the Idaho 7, but I think you need to bump it up to at least 30-50 IBU with something neutral at 60.

Thanks for the feedback, I have some Magnum which I can use to bump the IBUs to 30. For the last NEIPAs I've brewed I haven't used any bittering hops at all, and just relied on the whirlpool hops added at 65ºC to bring some bitterness (~10 IBUs). Those turned out quite well, but given the much higher FG of this one it makes sense to bring the IBUs up, never brewed a lactose NEIPA before.

 

[royger]

So I see you’re using the metric system, so I just want to make sure there is not a translation issue(not poking fun by any means, my in-laws are from mexico and when my father in law thinks something looks really cool or bad ass, Like a lifted truck he says “its cute” due to translation barriers)

So do you mean “sweet” as in terms of candy sweetness (think imperial milk stout) or sweet as in fruit juice like

I was shooting at "sweet" similar to a milk stout, but maybe not so overpowering as an imperial milk stout. I've tasted milk stouts in the UK that where definitely sweeter than what I aim for. No caramel notes, just sweet.

 

[royger]

Lol I didn’t fully read the top, went from title to recipe.

If that’s the case, brew it as a Typical NE IPA with 30-50 ibus and then add 1-1.5 lbs of lactose. I personally would not use Idaho 7 which in my experience of it in beer is very herbaceous/earth. Great hop for NEIPA but doesn’t scream milkshake or juicy at all to me as a single hop. I’d use Citra, mosaic, Galaxy, and/or other fruit forward hops. I’d even make sure to dryhop with El Dorado to bring even more candi like sweetness to the beer if that was my final goal

Thanks for the feedback. What about Cashmere?

I tried a very good sweet NEIPA in Japan that as far as I understood was made solely with Chashmere:

https://untappd.com/b/uchu-brewing-milky-way-45/3160543

I was extremely velvety/silk, with a very prominent coconut and pineapple taste and a strong sweet aftertaste, overall one of my favourite 'sweet' NEIPAs. Not sure whether it would quality as a milkshake NEIPA because it didn't contain any fruit AFAICT. Tried contacting the brewery for the recipe or tips about making something similar at home but had no reply.

 

[royger]

So...I've used quite a bit of Idaho 7. Most would agree that it is best on the hot side. If you want fruit forward then I'd add some Citra and/or Galaxy (or other fruity hop) to the dry hop and a bit in the whirlpool. If you want ID 7 in the mix on the cold side then maybe only 25 grams or so (with 100 gms or more of fruitier hops). I'd also drop the MO and just double up on the Golden Promise. Maybe switch out some of the flaked oats for oat malt and perhaps some wheat malt. There! Now you have one of my recipes . Your results may vary...

Thanks! I would also go for Golden Promise only as the base malt, as I really like it, but I have some leftover MO from 6 month ago and would like to get rid of it. I thought since I was already adding lactose using MO would be fine, as I usually use GP for the slightly sweet aftertaste (which is already provided by the lactose here).

 

[royger]

Also wanted to ask if there's some rule I can use to calculate the amount of dry hopping based on the OG and FG?

I've recently did a plain NEIPA where my OG was lower than expected and ended up at 5%, and the hop flavour seems to be very overpowering, as I cannot taste much of fruitiness at all. I used a total of 150gr at whirlpool at 65C for 30min (down to 55C) and 225gr at dry hop with a 1:1:1 relation of Mosaic, Citra and El Dorado. Maybe I should let it condition for longer, as it's been on the keg for 8 days only.

 

[Dgallo]

Thanks for the feedback. What about Cashmere?

I tried a very good sweet NEIPA in Japan that as far as I understood was made solely with Chashmere:

https://untappd.com/b/uchu-brewing-milky-way-45/3160543

I was extremely velvety/silk, with a very prominent coconut and pineapple taste and a strong sweet aftertaste, overall one of my favourite 'sweet' NEIPAs. Not sure whether it would quality as a milkshake NEIPA because it didn't contain any fruit AFAICT. Tried contacting the brewery for the recipe or tips about making something similar at home but had no reply.

Cashmere can work. I’m personally using it with Amarillo, Citra, and Sabro in my next NEIIPA. Def peachie but on the slightly delicate side, so you’ll have to be a little heavy handed with it. Like 280-400 grams in total. Say 120 gr hotside the rest in the dryhop. This obviously isn’t mandatory amounts but it will be a good reference point for your first go at it and you can adjust it next brew

 

[royger]

Cashmere can work. I’m personally using it with Amarillo, Citra, and Sabro in my next NEIIPA. Def peachie but on the slightly delicate side, so you’ll have to be a little heavy handed with it. Like 280-400 grams in total. Say 120 gr hotside the rest in the dryhop. This obviously isn’t mandatory amounts but it will be a good reference point for your first go at it and you can adjust it next brew

Thanks for the pointers! What about pairing it with Sabro to increase the coconut and tropical fruit flavours?

I've heard Sabro has a very pungent flavour, so I guess I should use a 2:1 ratio of Chashmere:Sabro, or even a 3:1. Does anyone has experience with this combo and could advice? I've never used any of the two.

 

[Dgallo]

Thanks for the pointers! What about pairing it with Sabro to increase the coconut and tropical fruit flavours?

I've heard Sabro has a very pungent flavour, so I guess I should use a 2:1 ratio of Chashmere:Sabro, or even a 3:1. Does anyone has experience with this combo and could advice? I've never used any of the two.

Sloop brewing just did a beer with cashmere and sabro. It was really good came out like coconut/lime with like peach ring gummies, the descriptor was perfect. I think 3:1 cashmere to sabro is probably right on

 

[danimal92sport]

I’m waiting on a sweet NEIPA to carb. My initial tastes are without carbonation, so it may not be a fair judgement. I’m under 20 IBUs with a FG of 1.015 and I wish it was more bitter. I’m hoping the carbonation brings some balance to this sweet juice, but my next one will target something like 30+ IBUs with some small boil additions. I did none and may come to regret it.

For reference, I used 3/4 lb of lactose and was surprised at the low FG. Still too sweet so far...

Dan

 

[royger]

Thanks for all the feedback. I'm unsure about whether to use Vienna or Munich I, I've left the Munich as-is and split the flaked grains between oats and wheat. I've also adjusted the hops using a 3:1 ratio, 120gr whirlpool @ 65C and 160gr DH split in two additions, one around 1.034 and the other one at terminal gravity.

Coco Loco
New England IPA
6.2% / 17.2 °P

BIAB
65% efficiency
Batch Volume: 24 L (Kettle)
Fermenter Volume: 21.04 L
Boil Time: 40 min

Mash Water: 29.04 L
Sparge Water: 3.18 L
Total Water: 32.22 L
Boil Volume: 26.67 L
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.058

Vitals
Original Gravity: 1.071
Final Gravity: 1.024
IBU (Tinseth): 33
Color: 12.4 EBC

Mash
Temperature — 67 °C — 45 min

Malts (7.4 kg)
2 kg (25.3%) — Thomas Fawcett Pale Malt, Golden Promise — Grain — 5.9 EBC
2 kg (25.3%) — Thomas Fawcett Pale Malt, Maris Otter — Grain — 5.9 EBC
1 kg (12.7%) — Weyermann Munich I — Grain — 14 EBC
1 kg (12.7%) — Oats, Flaked — Grain — 2 EBC
1 kg (12.7%) — Wheat Flaked — Grain — 3.2 EBC
400 g (5.1%) — Weyermann Acidulated — Grain — 3.5 EBC

Other (500 g)
500 g (6.3%) — Milk Sugar (Lactose) — Sugar — 0 EBC

Hops (305 g)
25 g (27 IBU) — Magnum 12% — Boil — 40 min
90 g (4 IBU) — Cashmere 8.5% — Aroma — 30 min hopstand @ 65 °C
30 g (2 IBU) — Sabro 14% — Aroma — 30 min hopstand @ 65 °C
45 g — Cashmere 8.5% — Dry Hop — 7 days
15 g — Sabro 14% — Dry Hop — 7 days
75 g — Cashmere 8.5% — Dry Hop — 3 days
25 g — Sabro 14% — Dry Hop — 3 days

Hopstand at 65 °C

Miscs
6 g — Calcium Chloride (CaCl2) — Mash
4 g — Canning Salt (NaCl) — Mash
3 g — Gypsum (CaSO4) — Mash

Yeast
1 pkg — Wyeast Labs 1318 London Ale III

Fermentation
Primary — 20 °C — 10 days

Carbonation: 2.3 CO2-vol

Water Profile
Ca+2 128
Mg+2 17
Na+ 75
Cl- 177
SO4-2 82
HCO3- 275