Feedback on my system....

[fish4fun]

My All Grain mashing system consists of two 1/2bbl Sanke Kegs. The "Top Keg" has a drain in the bottom, and the bottom keg is sitting on my homemade burner. The bottom keg has four SS "supports" welded to it to make sure the top keg stays securely in place.

I use two "bags" for my grain. One bag you can see on the top of the upper keg; it is sewn around a copper tube that fits snugly on the outside of the keg and extends all the way to the bottom of the keg. I actually put the grain in a second bag, and it simply "drops into the other bag". The tube that is bowed around in a "U" with a "circle" at one end goes inside the second bag with the grain. The "circle" has 1/4" holes drilled every inch around the inside diameter. The tubing is 1/2in "Pex" crimped in place. (I tried both silicone tubing and marine grade high temp potable water lines, but they were both problematic, the Pex has performed beautifully so far.)

When I brew, the pump recirculates the wort through the grain bed into the boil kettle continuously. The temperature of the wort in the mashtun (top keg) is monitored and the temperature of the incoming wort is adjusted by the LP burner that heats the boil kettle allowing multiple step mashing.

I have seen pictures of many permutations of a recirculating mash setup, and most vary somewhat in approach. I am sure someone has used two Sankey kegs in a similar manner, but I have not run across this "stacked approach" in my internet wanderings. I am fairly new to actually brewing (as opposed to simply reading about it), so I thought I would ask for some feedback on this setup. I have done half a dozen batches in it, and it works very well, but before I build a permanent home for it, I really would like to hear any suggestions or thoughts people with more experience might have to offer.

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FWIW: Both kegs were "returned" to me by customers and "refused" by my distributors (I sell kegs in my retail store), so while they are technically "liberated" for nothing more than the $50 deposit, every effort was made to return them through proper channels.


Thanks in advance for your help!

Fish

 

[outside92129]

Huh, a very novel and interesting approach. Always exciting to see new ideas on how to skin a cat.

 

[OneHoppyGuy]

Great idea, scary implementation. Looks like a scald just waiting to happen.

 

[Jrod]

Looks scary.

 

[fish4fun]

OneHoppyGuy,

"Scary" was not what I was expecting, but I appreciate the feedback. I looked @ your gallery and you obviously have above average knowledge/experience, so I would love it if you would make suggestions on how to reduce the scariness factor.

I will say that the setup as pictured is actually very "sturdy". Obviously it appears top heavy; however, in person it simply isn't. The burner @ the bottom is made from 3/16" steel with 2" x 1/2" supports. The "couplers" that the Mashtun sits on are made from 10ga SS. I milled them into an "H" shape so the top keg's bottom ring would "lock" into them (they are welded to the bottom keg). I will do some tests to determine the actual forces required to "topple it", but from experience neither a casual "bump" from my 225lb self nor clumsy efforts to remove the top keg have given rise to any scary events, but that does not mean I should not revisit the safety of the design.

The system will not be a permanent fixture on my deck, and before I move it to its new home I want to fully explore any changes that need to be made, both for brewing efficiency and safety. I don't mind spending money on my set up, and I do view this build as a "prototype", but regardless of the costs, I want the final build to be a one-time expense in both materials and labor.

I don't have enough experience to evaluate how well my "flow through" BIAB system is compared to other configurations, but in using it I can say it "seems" simple and straight-forward. It is easy to clean and works exactly like I thought it would; the "scariness factor", that worries me and I will give it consideration as I move toward my final design. Again, feedback and suggestions would truly be appreciated.

Thanks,

Fish

 

[OneHoppyGuy]

Mounting the kegs with machined fittings is a novel approach that appears to work well. It's the lower keg. There 'should' be support going outward in multiple directions for stability. There are a myriad of ways to accomplish this. One idea that comes to mind is to make a 3: wide steel belt to strap around the lower keg and attach legs splaying outward.

Note in our design that our legs do not run parallel nor are they perpendicular to the frame.

I believe there are one maybe 2 of us that do 'personal hop additions' while we brew and anything to make things safer is a good thing.

 

[montanagray]

Fish,

However scary it might look, the final result is how the beer tastes and if the deck is still standing. Your design makes sense to me as I have another friend who has made a system like yours. I believe the difference between yours and others is the "eye" factor. So to make a long story short, if the system works and you and your friends are happy with the end product then you shouldnt worry. I do have another friend that built a portable ale maker with his brewing buddy "all wood" and so far no harm no foul. You sound like the kind of guy/girl that knows what he/she wants so if you can come up with an idea like this, you should be able to come up with a permanent fixture that will make the type of beer you like. Have fun and bounce some ideas off your brew buddies, they might surprise you. Remember, it doesnt matter how many threads an individual has, that as a whole doesnt make them an expert.

Montana

 

[OneHoppyGuy]

Wow... that sounded a little bit critical...
The eye factor is not the issue, it's the safety factor.
It appears very top heavy. He asked for feedback, we gave it.
Scary is a REAL issue when you are talking 212 degrees. I'm sure there is at least one brewer on this forum who has had the misfortune of being scalded or worse.

 

[montanagray]

Not being critical at all. Just seems as if he is in the building stage and going along with it. Seems as if he has got the building blocks started and wanting feedback on feeding the system and getting it right and better at the same time. Not being critical at all. Cheeers

Montana

 

[fish4fun]

OneHoppyGuy,

Thank you for the great picture, that is really cool! There are half a dozen great ideas going on in that picture! I LOVE the idea of a mechanical "dump". I really should have paid more attention to the rather pervasive practice of having the HLT on top with the Mashtun below it. I instantly grasped the benefits of a "flow through system"; however, my inexperience in actually brewing led me to think having the HLT on bottom was a simpler approach. Obviously I need to re-think this.

To All:

I used my system for its first 12 gallon batch on Friday (previous batches had been 6 gallon). The wisdom of having the HLT on top or level with the Mashtun and using a heat exchanger became very evident with 26lbs of grain. In my system I had a very difficult time keeping the Mash temperature consistent. I am going to re-vamp my system from the ground up.

For any who are considering a "flow through mashtun" a word of warning: if you want consistent mash temperatures in larger volumes of grain you should consider a heat exchanger or PID controller that gently warms the wort toward your target rather than thinking the temperature in the grain bed will naturally reach an equilibrium. My temperature readings from various depths in the grain bed varied by as much as 15F during my mash; I just hope I didn't ruin 26lbs of grain learning this lesson.

I am going to spend more time reviewing other flow through mash systems before I proceed, but it is clear to me that I have more prototyping to do before I build my permanent setup. I guess my wife is just going to have to get use to brewing equipment on the deck for another month or two;-) (I think this is going to cost me a swimming pool :-( You would have to ask my wife how the two things are related, but I am fair sure I am going to have to put in a pool as a "cost of doing business"; I have resisted the pool for over 15 years, but looks like I am going to have to concede to keep the peace.)

I guess until I post my new plans the "Feedback" portion of this thread is moot, but I would LOVE suggestions/links to existing flow through systems, either electric, LP or both.

In addition to comments/suggestions/links on flow through systems, if anyone has any experience with either of these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-100-QT-.../200734781097?pt=Cookware&hash=item2ebcb9aea9

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CONCORD-100.../140545191628?pt=Cookware&hash=item20b9256ecc

With respect to quality of the stainless // weldability, please chime in. I know there was a thread about them a while back, but I don't remember anyone discussing if they were "easy" or "hard" to weld. I have a TIG welder, but I am a long way from BEING a TIG welder, lol. I do "ok" with welding the Sankey kegs, but I have had some trouble with thinner stainless and "questionable" grades of stainless. I could silver solder the fittings, but I would prefer to weld them and any feedback from people who have actually welded either of these would be helpful.

Thanks for the feedback!

Fish