davefleck
Well-Known Member
So what distinguishes a farmhouse from other sassion ales? Higher ABV? Looks like some are spiced some aren't. Some enlightenment out here?
farmhouse...sassion
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davefleck
Well-Known Member
I was under the impression that all farmhouses were saisons but not visa versa
All Saisions are Farmhouse. They got the term from farmhouses making beer to give to the people who worked in the fields during the farming season.
As a term, I think Farmhouse can simply mean a beer made in the farmhouse tradition, with very local ingredients.
But it's also taken on a way of describing a Saison. It's simply a term that conveys the beer better to some people.
And FYI - Saison beers can vary a lot in their flavor and characteristics. This is simply because there were so many different farms using so many techniques and ingredients to make their beers. Actually, there are(were) several large breweries who kind of defined the style to a certain degree after farming became more industrialized in French Belgium. They tried to capture what they thought of as a proper beer for the people in the area.
Saisons are not generally "spiced" as a rule. Some people do. The brewers over there could get an amazing amount of flavor from using the proper yeast, and fermenting at a higher temperature and mashing very low and dry.
As a term, I think Farmhouse can simply mean a beer made in the farmhouse tradition, with very local ingredients.
But it's also taken on a way of describing a Saison. It's simply a term that conveys the beer better to some people.
And FYI - Saison beers can vary a lot in their flavor and characteristics. This is simply because there were so many different farms using so many techniques and ingredients to make their beers. Actually, there are(were) several large breweries who kind of defined the style to a certain degree after farming became more industrialized in French Belgium. They tried to capture what they thought of as a proper beer for the people in the area.
Saisons are not generally "spiced" as a rule. Some people do. The brewers over there could get an amazing amount of flavor from using the proper yeast, and fermenting at a higher temperature and mashing very low and dry.
I think the difference is breweries in the US like the romantic connotation attached to using the word farmhouse. They use modern steam equipment, glycol jacketed cylindoconical fermentors, fancy heat exchangers, and whirlpools. In most cases marketing is the only way to create the illusion of rustic farmhouse.
I'm for the most part marketing deaf and see through all their ploys. Pretty bottles do get me sometimes since I'll reuse them haha.
I'm for the most part marketing deaf and see through all their ploys. Pretty bottles do get me sometimes since I'll reuse them haha.
doctorRobert
Well-Known Member
Farmhouse ales include Saison and Biere de Garde.
There is a lot of misinformation out there about Saisons. Traditionally, Saisons were brewed during winter (so not at high ferm temps), highly hopped for long storage, low in abv, so that the farm workers could have a refreshing beverage during the summer.
Now today, it's quite the opposite, they ferment warm, and are higher in abv. And the ingredients are probably quite different than the saisons from yesteryear.
There's only a couple saison breweries in belguim and france now, and even those guys, have significantly changed their recipes over time. So I really think that Saison needs to be thought of as a newer style, as todays saisons are probably not good examples of what was brewed a 100 years ago in french belgium.
That's just my opinion, from what I've learned from my research.
There is a lot of misinformation out there about Saisons. Traditionally, Saisons were brewed during winter (so not at high ferm temps), highly hopped for long storage, low in abv, so that the farm workers could have a refreshing beverage during the summer.
Now today, it's quite the opposite, they ferment warm, and are higher in abv. And the ingredients are probably quite different than the saisons from yesteryear.
There's only a couple saison breweries in belguim and france now, and even those guys, have significantly changed their recipes over time. So I really think that Saison needs to be thought of as a newer style, as todays saisons are probably not good examples of what was brewed a 100 years ago in french belgium.
That's just my opinion, from what I've learned from my research.
Hmm.. I thought Saisons were brewed in the spring for the fall harvest. I may be mistaking for another beer.
I agree that even the breweries in the area could not have replicated the beer exactly, since they varied so very much from place to place. And today, our interpretation is only based on what we know or assume, or are copies of what was popular from those earlier breweries, not so much based on actual handed-down recipes. Like many things, they served what was popular, not necessarily what was common on the farms.
And I forgot about Bier de garde, which may be the one that was laid down for the summer, since the name means to age the beer IIRC.
I agree that even the breweries in the area could not have replicated the beer exactly, since they varied so very much from place to place. And today, our interpretation is only based on what we know or assume, or are copies of what was popular from those earlier breweries, not so much based on actual handed-down recipes. Like many things, they served what was popular, not necessarily what was common on the farms.
And I forgot about Bier de garde, which may be the one that was laid down for the summer, since the name means to age the beer IIRC.
doctorRobert
Well-Known Member
No that sounds kind pretty close... late summer....fall.... close enough.
""Saison" is French for season, because these ales were traditionally brewed in the autumn or winter[citation needed] for consumption during the late summer harvest for farm workers who were entitled to up to five litres throughout the workday during harvest season."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saison
""Saison" is French for season, because these ales were traditionally brewed in the autumn or winter[citation needed] for consumption during the late summer harvest for farm workers who were entitled to up to five litres throughout the workday during harvest season."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saison
mrgstiffler
Well-Known Member
Great Divide Colette "Farmhouse Ale" is DELICIOUS!
bovineblitz
Well-Known Member
I think that's backwards. For example a Biere de Garde is a farmhouse ale but not a saison.
I have read the book on farmhouse ales this spring and you'd think I could remember all the little details.
