False Bottom Stuck Sparge

[thefost]

I'm using a 12" morebeer false bottom in a 10 gallon igloo cooler. This weekend I got stuck sparges twice while using this false bottom.

I was using a pretty fine crush and a 16lb grain bill (all 2-row), but the last few similar batches I had no problems using the same mill. I'm using pretty reinforced 3/8" silicone tubing that I don't think was collapsing so I don't think that was the problem.

Had 2 questions

1) Would the jaybird false bottom provide a significant improvement over this one? Is there a "best" false bottom out there, or is mine about as good as it gets?

2) I couldnt get my chugger pump to pump really slowly. I would turn it on with the pump output ball valve shut, and then very slowly open it. Even though I was turning the ball valve very slowly, the pump would always go from no flow to slightly too fast (around .5 - 1L/min) and if I slowed it down it would lose prime and stop.

Is this normal?

I used a tan pump previously (now broken) and never had a stuck sparge, so I'm wondering if something about the chugger is a contributing factor.

 

[poislb]

If your using a pump you need a FB support otherwise the suction will collapse the false bottom creating a stuck sparge..that would be my guess.. I use jaybird false bottom, level 1 support and a chugger, never had a stuck sparge.. hope that helps in your new purchase; )

 

[thefost]

If your using a pump you need a FB support otherwise the suction will collapse the false bottom creating a stuck sparge..that would be my guess.. I use jaybird false bottom, level 1 support and a chugger, never had a stuck sparge.. hope that helps in your new purchase; )

I've read that false bottoms can collapse, but looking at mine I'm seeing no way how that could be possible. I literally just stood on mine and it didn't collapse, I can't see how a 2-5psi vacuum could do it (I have a vacuum gauge).

Thanks for the Jaybird feedback, I may have to upgrade if it's better

 

[Dan]

thefost, I have the exact same igloo cooler, MoreBeer false bottom, and chugger pump. I never had a stuck sparge until I added the chugger pump. I found adding rice hulls helped, never needed them before the pump. I also cut the flow of the pump way back which probably what helps more. If you're losing prime maybe keep the pump lower if possible.

 

[Bobby_M]

It's my opinion that a 3/8 barb, which has maybe a 1/4" ID is undersized to flow liquid that may contain a few tablespoons of grain bits. Grain gets through false bottoms, both through the holes and around the edges until the bed is set. You MAY also be pulling enough suction so that the opening of that elbow fitting is bottoming out on the cooler floor. You can test this by cutting a slot across the bottom of the fitting or less permanently, use a piece of 14 gauge solid copper wire across the opening and bent and tucked up through the holes to hold it in place.

 

[thefost]

Good point on the 3/8" barb, I'm going to switch that out with a 1/2" solution and get some thick wall 1/2" thermoplastic tubing to go with it. I doubt the the false bottom is bending, but i will put some slots in the intake to make 100% sure.

I've also learned a valuable lesson from this, have backup rice hulls on hand at all times.

 

[day_trippr]

I've read that false bottoms can collapse, but looking at mine I'm seeing no way how that could be possible. I literally just stood on mine and it didn't collapse, I can't see how a 2-5psi vacuum could do it (I have a vacuum gauge). [...]

fwiw, and not that this is the root cause of the stuck sparge issues, but 5 psi on a totally blocked 12" FB would put over 550 lbs of down force on the FB. Even without a total collapse, if whatever down force is enough to put the end of the dip tube flat against the MLT floor it's Stuck Sparge City...

Cheers!

 

[mccullpl]

I have a 10 gal Rubbermaid cooler, and on mine the bottom of the cooler "domes up" when I put hot water in it, and completely seals the false bottom fitting to it. Maybe put some hot water in it and see if that's what is happening to you?

Good luck!
Pat

 

[BWE]

I have a 10 gal Rubbermaid cooler, and on mine the bottom of the cooler "domes up" when I put hot water in it, and completely seals the false bottom fitting to it. Maybe put some hot water in it and see if that's what is happening to you?

Good luck!
Pat

What did you end up doing to fix this??

 

[mccullpl]

I went back to using a ss braid since I batch sparge.

When I was trying think of a way to mod the cooler, the best idea I came up with was to drill a hole(s) in the bottom of the exterior, and try to glue or epoxy the interior bottom the the exterior bottom, so it wouldn't done up...if that makes any sense. I didn't do it, but it seems like it would work.

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[BWE]

Im not sure what happened to u is what happened to me. I did 2 batches. One stuck, one didnt. Im looking at possibilities on why, and tha may be it. If u batch sparge, is the bazooka the best method? ?

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[mccullpl]

I had a couple batches that stuck with the braid, which is why I got a false bottom. Well, that obviously didn't work for me, so after researching manifolds, braids, bazookas, and false bottoms, I went back to the braid, and have had a couple uneventful sparges. I don't know what the problem was with the braid for that batch or two that stuck, but it seems like the braid should be the best imo.

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[VladOfTrub]

2-5 psi isn't a vacuum, it is above atmospheric. 0 psi on a gauge is atmospheric. A vacuum gauge measures vacuum in inches Mercury. Maybe the mechanism is full of mash liquid.
Try pumping beneath the false bottom to lift the grain off the plate. There is a vid out for a way to install a vacuum breaker beneath the false bottom. Kind of like the big boys use to prohibit crushing the plate, when raking doesn't do the trick. Here's something weird that I ran into. I use a Blichmann 20 G lautertun and pump into a 30 G. boiler. The lauter pump is about 3 ft below the boiler and 2 ft below the lautertun. I was running off a 30 pound load of grain. I had about 20 G of wort in the boiler when I noticed the liquid level in the lautertun sight glass dropped rapidly to a few inches below the top of the grain bed. Then, I noticed the level in the boiler sight glass began to drop. Then, the sight glass in the lautertun began to rise. I use March pumps. The only thing that I can figure happened is that the vacuum under the false bottom was low enough to cause a pressure differential causing back flow from the boiler, even with the pump running. It kept going back and forth. I cut the bed and that fixed it.

 

[graduate]

I found that when mine would stick it was because the tube that went through the false bottom would suck itself to the bottom of the mashtun. I now leave it at a slight angle before tightening it down that way it cant suck to the bottom and seal off.

 

[augiedoggy]

ill just mention what works for me...I use a smaller diameter finer braid screen installed inside a larger course bazooka tube... I made it so it pulls apart easy without tools to clean... no stuck sparges in 8 brews with pump reciculating at full blast... I start slow and slowly turn up the speed on the pump. (12v)

 

[BWE]

I saw a post on here actually that sounds like great advise. Just take a stainless steel brillow pad and put under your FB. It will keep it from sucking down and even act as an extra filter. I plan on trying this when I get home, so if anyone had problems with this method speak up so I don't do anything ignorant.

 

[augiedoggy]

I saw a post on here actually that sounds like great advise. Just take a stainless steel brillow pad and put under your FB. It will keep it from sucking down and even act as an extra filter. I plan on trying this when I get home, so if anyone had problems with this method speak up so I don't do anything ignorant.

that actually sound like a good idea if your sure its stainless steel... your taking about something course like a chor boy right?

 

[rmyurick]

You could add a jockey box--gravity drain to the jockey box (it could be anything, like an extra bucket)--and pump from the jockey box. Gives you a little more control. If you want to get fancy you could add level control to turn the pump on at high level and off at low level.

 

[cpatel479]

1lb of Rice hulls for a 5 gallon mash will work with any false bottom :cross:

 

[BWE]

that actually sound like a good idea if your sure its stainless steel... your taking about something course like a chor boy right?

Something like this. I gotta give credit to CGVT on here on THIS post.

 

[augiedoggy]

Something like this. I gotta give credit to CGVT on here on THIS post.

yes.... Its similiar to what I'm doing by putting a finer filter inside a bazooka tube... works perfect... that might be a bit harder to clean though... Ive got mine setup where the smaller filter tube just pushes into the 1/2 stainless nipple and the bigger one just fits over it and it pops off and separates easy.

 

[passedpawn]

Several others have mentioned the effect that caused me to have problems with my jaybird false bottom. The dip tube that went through the false bottom was sealing itself against the bottom of the kettle.

The solution is to cut a notch in the bottom, or just cut the bottom at a diagonal. I used an angle grinder. Problem solved. See pic below.

Also, I found that grain would clog the narrow opening in my quick disconnect fitting right at the ball valve on the kettle. I switched to the large orifice camlocks and I never had an issue again.

I've never had a true "stuck sparge" with the false bottom, and I don't use rice hulls.

 

[Bobby_M]

I would strongly advise against the scrubby pad. I built a 100 gallon mashtun for my club brewing system with a massive 30" false bottom and thought the same thing. Hey, just in case some grain gets through, I'll fasten a pair of chore boy pads over the bottom drain. 250 pounds of grain later, we got maybe 2 gallons out. Luckily there was another bung with a pipe plug in it that we were able to modify on the fly to save the brew day but that was close. When we finally took it all apart, there was a compact softball sized chunk of grain over the chore boy.

Long story short, grain is going to get passed or through your false bottom no matter what. The key is flushing it out of there and not stuffing up your diptube. Yet another reason to skip the 1/2" OD diptubes and undersized 3/8" ball valves on your mash tun builds.

 

[BWE]

Well crap. Thanks Bobby M for the advice. Ill try the notch thing. I wish I had found all this before I bought my setup.

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[thefost]

Just wanted to pop in and say thank you all for lots of helpful info! I've got plenty of new ideas to pimp out my false bottom to hopefully fix my stuck sparge issue. Will post results and pics of my new contraption after next brew day.

 

[Remmy]

I've had a stuck sparge with my false bottom the last 3 out of 5 brew days. It's a PITA.

Going to stick with the braided line from now on.

 

[Bobby_M]

I've had a stuck sparge with my false bottom the last 3 out of 5 brew days. It's a PITA.

Going to stick with the braided line from now on.

In what kind of vessel? What kind of false bottom? What kind of diptube?

 

[Remmy]

In what kind of vessel? What kind of false bottom? What kind of diptube?

In my 10-gallon MLT (vertical).

Here it is. I wish I could remember the vendor. I dumped the sheet that had the vendor name in the garbage over a month ago.

 

[Bobby_M]

How's the fit between the disc and the cooler sidewall? I'd not attempt that design without a sweeper gasket (I'm working on it).

 

[Remmy]

It's not snug but it's close. The fact is, grain gets underneath it because I will end up with about 1/8th or 1/4 inch of space on one side of the MLT. I don't think that's the problem, though, because I have no issues with using the stainless line all by itself and there is grain all over that thing.

 

[augiedoggy]

I would strongly advise against the scrubby pad. I built a 100 gallon mashtun for my club brewing system with a massive 30" false bottom and thought the same thing. Hey, just in case some grain gets through, I'll fasten a pair of chore boy pads over the bottom drain. 250 pounds of grain later, we got maybe 2 gallons out. Luckily there was another bung with a pipe plug in it that we were able to modify on the fly to save the brew day but that was close. When we finally took it all apart, there was a compact softball sized chunk of grain over the chore boy.

Long story short, grain is going to get passed or through your false bottom no matter what. The key is flushing it out of there and not stuffing up your diptube. Yet another reason to skip the 1/2" OD diptubes and undersized 3/8" ball valves on your mash tun builds.

See thats the thing I get very little grain inside my bazooka tube and what makes it through isnt even enough to cover 10% of the surface area of the inner finer screen tube.... I use 12v pumps and was very concerned with grain plugging them up and very glad to find that I get no grain pulled through the filter and I have yet to even get a hint of a plugged up flow...
maybe with 10 gallon batches the weight could be more of an issue I dont know but I did some beers with larger grain counts and no issues there either...

 

[Jaybird]

Chatting with a few people here about the fasle bottoms for coolers and seeing this problem come up so often I thought I would chime in here too. I developed a fase bottom system to rectify this problem we discussed it here

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/mechanics-jaybird-false-bottom-cooler-mlt-468677/

I will get my web guy to post a better picture of the bottom or under the bottom but we bent notches in the welded false bottom system so you can still use a dip tube if you like or you can still use your braid. So if anything gets by the false bottom itself because the coolers arn't perfectly round, the stand will catch it before it can get in the drain.

Here is a picture of the false bottom now built for the coolers
http://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/store/Conversion_Picnic_Cooler_10_Gallon.html

Cheers
Jay