Failure of Brewha BIAC

[jeffreybandel]

I am disappointed to post my brand new $5,000 Brewha BIAC is completely ruined. I was excited about this system but I guess that old adage that if something sounds to good to be true it probably is, has played out.

During the cooling stage the interior buckled rendering the system useless. During my post failure inspection I discovered black gunk at the outlet side of the cooling port on the jacket. I believe this black FOD caused a water blockage which subsequently allowed pressure to rise in the jacket which eventually led to the jacket buckling/collapsing.

I have tried to work this out with Brewha but their position is that it was user error and there was no way this black FOD came from them or their manufacturer. I disagreed. I base my disagreement on two points: 1. This was hooked up to my faucet and I have never seen this black junk before. 2. These are manufactured in China with who knows what kind of quality control.

I hope others that have one of these systems learn from this experience and that new buyers are aware of the company's stance. Buyer beware.

 

[jeffreybandel]

Picture 2

 

[jeffreybandel]

Picture of exit port with black FOD.

 

[jakenbacon]

Wow

 

[jeffreybandel]

Black FOD

 

[jakenbacon]

I wonder if it would be possible to be able to find out if that gunk is from the manufacturing process like through testing or something? I mean for being out 5k I am just graspin at straws here...

 

[trimixdiver1]

Does the vessel seal? Maybe a vacuum sucked it in? Do they give a max water pressure?

 

[okbecker]

was the tank closed during the cooling stage ?

 

[jeffreybandel]

It does seal. That is one of the big selling points from a sanitation stand point.

 

[trimixdiver1]

It does seal. That is one of the big selling points from a sanitation stand point.

Yea, that looks like you sealed it hot and chilled the wort. Pulled a vacuum. Is it rated for a vacuum?

Even so, there should be a vacuum breaker/relief on there to make sure this doesn't happen.

I know this is basic, but was the pressure regulator installed for the water supply to the jacket? Did you restrict the discharge? It says 3 psi and you have to adjust it. If you had it set at 3psi witch is lower than the 5 psi max, then water pressure could have done this, but I think it's a vacuum. You may want to verify the regulator is actually putting out 3 psi water, use a second gauge on its output. You can buy them with the hose bib fittings in the plumbing section of a hardware store

I don't have one, but this still sucks! I know this may not fix it, but as a last resort, you could over pressurize it and maybe pop it back into a more conical shape.

 

[okbecker]

Yep. Just looking at the pics. An over pressure would cause the shell of the coolant jacket to fail in the other direction or cause the weld/seal to fail. I would be willing to bet that the pump you were using would not supply enough pressure to cause failure even if it was plugged. That is definitely a vacuum failure. Seen it before on large storage tanks.

 

[CA_Mouse]

If you paid for it with a CC, you may have a recourse to get your money back. But it does look like too cool water in the outer jacket with a sealed heated interior most likely was the cause. Structural reinforcement looks like it failed completely.

 

[trimixdiver1]

One of these could have saved your rig.
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1428169849.724567.jpg

https://www.brewershardware.com/Tri...lve-Vacuum-Breaker-15-PSI-TC15PRV15-1.51.html

 

[trimixdiver1]

If you paid for it with a CC, you may have a recourse to get your money back. But it does look like too cool water in the outer jacket with a sealed heated interior most likely was the cause. Structural reinforcement looks like it failed completely.

Other way around. The cool wort sucked in the sides

 

[jeffreybandel]

It wasn't sealed so to speak. The lid was resting on the fermenter just like in the video at this link:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ojtYKokOD8[/ame]

This did not come with a pressure regulator nor was any mention of needing one in the literature that came with the unit or in the video above. Brewha said that probably my exit hose kinked and that caused it. I find that theory hard to believe.

 

[limulus]

I just watched the youtube video and he definitely put the lid back on when he was chilling. I did not notice him sealing it but the cooling could form a vacuum as I first thought and cause it to collapse. I really think this should be something the manufacturer (Brewha) should absorb since I don't see any warnings about vacuums.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ojtYKokOD8[/ame]

If it has happened to you, I can see it happening again if it was a vacuum that formed during the cooling. I'll bet we see something about this in some of his future instructions or videos. I kept my 40-plate chilling system and will keep using it to bring mine down to around 150F. Then, I'll connect street water or the glycol to bring it down to fermenting temp. I learned about vacuums when I took Tom Hennesy's Brewery Immersion Course at Echo Brewing in Colorado. The brewer explained that vacuums could happen on some of their tanks when I was brewing.

For me, the service before and after the sale has been exemplary.

 

[jeffreybandel]

I just watched the youtube video and he definitely put the lid back on when he was chilling. I did not notice him sealing it but the cooling could form a vacuum as I first thought and cause it to collapse. I really think this should be something the manufacturer (Brewha) should absorb since I don't see any warnings about vacuums.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ojtYKokOD8

If it has happened to you, I can see it happening again if it was a vacuum that formed during the cooling. I'll bet we see something about this in some of his future instructions or videos. I kept my 40-plate chilling system and will keep using it to bring mine down to around 150F. Then, I'll connect street water or the glycol to bring it down to fermenting temp. I learned about vacuums when I took Tom Hennesy's Brewery Immersion Course at Echo Brewing in Colorado. The brewer explained that vacuums could happen on some of their tanks when I was brewing.

For me, the service before and after the sale has been exemplary.

The only thing they offered me was for me to buy another fermenter at over $1,000. The customer was service for me seemed good until this. Now they are washing their hands and telling me to just eat it.

 

[limulus]

Yeah, I think the possibility of this being caused by a vacuum is not unreasonable. I think it is a great opportunity for Brewha to replace it and use yours as an R&D piece. Like I said in my previous post, the possibility of creating a vacuum has always been on my mind and I have used precautions to avoid it.

 

[brewguyver]

Definitely call your credit card company. If you used a good one (e.g. amex) and can show you followed the instructions, then the CC company will probably support you for a full refund. Were you using all Brewha parts? Given that they built the thing, they provided the instructions, etc. if you followed their directions and didn't use aftermarket parts then it's probably on them.

If they had to get approvals on the product from the fed you can always file a formal complaint. Just make sure it wasn't actually user error before you do that.

 

[trimixdiver1]

Definitely call your credit card company. If you used a good one (e.g. amex) and can show you followed the instructions, then the CC company will probably support you for a full refund. Were you using all Brewha parts? Given that they built the thing, they provided the instructions, etc. if you followed their directions and didn't use aftermarket parts then it's probably on them.

If they had to get approvals on the product from the fed you can always file a formal complaint. Just make sure it wasn't actually user error before you do that.

That's the problem with equipment like this. It's "engineered" here and sent overseas to be built. I don't think they have any certifications for this. I don't think they have to have an ASME cert for it. My dickmann fermenters don't and they can be pressurized to 3psi too.

The point I'm sure will help you is if it was an over pressurization of the jacket, why would blockage on the discharge matter? If you used the regulator they sent and tested it at 3psi and the jacket can hold 5psi per the website. You should be able to keep 3psi in it all day and not have an issue. There probably is nowhere near that pressure when the jacket is flowing.

If no vacuum breaker or PRV is included and this happened then it's on them. They evidently think the vacuum created isn't an issue and its structurally sound. So how is it your fault? Did you boil at the Dead Sea and chill at the top of Everest? Those are the extreme ends of the spectrum.

 

[Owly055]

My response at this point would be

"make this right or I will DESTROY YOU......... I spent $5k for your product, and it failed in NORMAL USE. I will join every home brewing forum on the planet and make sure EVERYBODY KNOWS ABOUT THIS.......... Is that what you want........ can you afford this?........ One pissed off customer can do an immense amount of damage, and I intend to do as much damage as possible if you blow me off".......

I'm a hard ass........ I've used this strategy several times and gotten satisfaction. No business can afford and angry customer on a rampage. Be that angry customer on a rampage........ or at least make them think you are. I've been in business for over 30 years, and my customers are my biggest asset. I've made mistakes.......but I make them right.

You have photos, and documentation..... Make it damn clear that you are going for the juggular!!



H.W.

 

[JKoravos]

Is there an inlet regulator on the cooling jacket? If that's the case it's almost certainly an issue with the equipment. It looks like a vacuum failure to me.

Even if there wasn't, having a jacketed vessel with no type of pressure regulation or relief valve is crappy design. If you're going to take that kind of chance on the design you should at least make the system have low enough restriction at the outlet that a little bit of gunk isn't going to block the outlet.

Also, i'd expect the outlet to still be blocked if that cause the failure. Is the outlet still blocked or significantly restricted?

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

My response at this point would be

"make this right or I will DESTROY YOU......... I spent $5k for your product, and it failed in NORMAL USE. I will join every home brewing forum on the planet and make sure EVERYBODY KNOWS ABOUT THIS.......... Is that what you want........ can you afford this?........ One pissed off customer can do an immense amount of damage, and I intend to do as much damage as possible if you blow me off".......

I'm a hard ass........ I've used this strategy several times and gotten satisfaction. No business can afford and angry customer on a rampage. Be that angry customer on a rampage........ or at least make them think you are. I've been in business for over 30 years, and my customers are my biggest asset. I've made mistakes.......but I make them right.

You have photos, and documentation..... Make it damn clear that you are going for the juggular!!



H.W.

Especially when the market for this is already so small because of the giant price tag, someone searching for BrewHa will find this forum post on google and not buy one.

 

[bbohanon]

This totally sucks..I was looking at this rig last year before I started my DIY E-Brew build..I had concerns about something of this nature popping up and my luck with anything that is an all-in-one proprietary rig would be equal or worse than yours has been which is why I went in a different direction.

I hate to hear this happened and I certainly would be on the warpath with them to get a refund or a replacement rig. As others have mentioned, this would be a good chance for them to do some R&D with your rig to fix this issue. I would also do as some mentioned and go back to your CC if you used one to charge it and get some help that way if they keep giving you the run around.

Keep us updated on how it turns out as this will help others stay away from this vendor if they do not make it right with you.

 

[Jimmy82]

Did you have a water pressure regulator hooked up to the inlet of the jacket? Also, why was there a valve on the outlet of the jacket? There should never be any restriction on the out side of the jacket.

Sucks that this happened..I have a BIAC and love it.

 

[-CHRIS-]

What did they say you did wrong? Looks like the wort vessel was sealed and your injection of cooling water caused the wort to cool and collapse the vessel? I seriously doubt a lack of cooling water could cause that.

If that is the case, it is a really poor design that doesn't have some sort of vacuum break. I can't believe that they are not offering a free or reduced cost replacement vessel.

Chris

 

[Jimmy82]

It looks to me like it was caused by over pressurizing the jacket - not a vacuum. Standard household water pressures are way too high for the jacket, and AFAIK too high for commercial jackets. This tank for example, is rated at 15psi...household water pressure can range, but 40+ psi isn't uncommon. Any restriction on the out side of the jacket combined with high water pressures is sure to lead to jacket failure.

 

[limulus]

It looks to me like it was caused by over pressurizing the jacket - not a vacuum. Standard household water pressures are way too high for the jacket, and AFAIK too high for commercial jackets. This tank for example, is rated at 15psi...household water pressure can range, but 40+ psi isn't uncommon. Any restriction on the out side of the jacket combined with high water pressures is sure to lead to jacket failure.

I have one of these also but I have to play devil's advocate and say that if pressure from household water is such a concern, the BIAC should come with a pressure regulator. The pressure regulator that is being sold now is a new item not available when I bought mine in December and it is still an option and not standard equipment. But the one thing we do know is it is not recommended that you place a valve on the outlet of the jacket and if there was a valve on the outlet of the jacket, then I'm afraid this one may be a goner. I will be ordering a valve like this for mine.
http://www.freshwatersystems.com/p-...GabjoSy806mMo1wh-GQxTH9Z8k9VMw4OIUaAp0X8P8HAQ

 

[jeffreybandel]

Just to be clear: This did NOT come with a pressure regulator to monitor water pressure going in or a pressure relief valve.

 

[Jimmy82]

I'm not sure it really needs to come with a water pressure regulator - it's just something else to add to the price. Not everyone will want one, not everyone will need one, etc.

I have had my BIAC for close to a year now, and I know that when I received my conical, there was a blog post about municipal water pressure and the jacket. It had specific recommendations on how to prevent the jacket from deforming. Sure, it would be nice if the BIAC came with the pressure regulator, however, once the customer is informed of the risks, it's their own responsibility to prevent them from happening.

It's no different than a PRV for the lid - sure it would be nice if it came with one, but it doesn't...so I've been on the search to try and find one that conforms to the ratings on the BIAC. This isn't BREWHA's responsibility though; they've informed us of the risk of pressure building up during fermentation and vacuum during chilling, and have provided suggestions on how to prevent it from happening. IMO, that's all they need to do.

 

[jeffreybandel]

I'm not sure it really needs to come with a water pressure regulator - it's just something else to add to the price. Not everyone will want one, not everyone will need one, etc.

I have had my BIAC for close to a year now, and I know that when I received my conical, there was a blog post about municipal water pressure and the jacket. It had specific recommendations on how to prevent the jacket from deforming. Sure, it would be nice if the BIAC came with the pressure regulator, however, once the customer is informed of the risks, it's their own responsibility to prevent them from happening.

It's no different than a PRV for the lid - sure it would be nice if it came with one, but it doesn't...so I've been on the search to try and find one that conforms to the ratings on the BIAC. This isn't BREWHA's responsibility though; they've informed us of the risk of pressure building up during fermentation and vacuum during chilling, and have provided suggestions on how to prevent it from happening. IMO, that's all they need to do.

When your BIAC came, did it come with instructions that warned about deformation when chilling?

 

[-CHRIS-]

It looks to me like it was caused by over pressurizing the jacket - not a vacuum. Standard household water pressures are way too high for the jacket, and AFAIK too high for commercial jackets. This tank for example, is rated at 15psi...household water pressure can range, but 40+ psi isn't uncommon. Any restriction on the out side of the jacket combined with high water pressures is sure to lead to jacket failure.

Wow, that is crazy, you are saying if the drain is the least bit restricted it can crater the jacket due to the pressure? That really needs to have a pressure blow off like a water heater.

Chris

 

[Jimmy82]

Wow, that is crazy, you are saying if the drain is the least bit restricted it can crater the jacket due to the pressure? That really needs to have a pressure blow off like a water heater.

Chris

If it restricts it to the point that it builds up past the pressure the jacket can withstand, then yes, it will buckle.

This is no different than commercial brewery tanks...they don't pump 40+psi into the jackets and block the outlets off expecting that they will hold that kind of pressure. We, as the owners of the tanks need to take some responsibility and ensure that WE set these up properly when we start using them.

 

[trimixdiver1]

This is really concerning, why in the heck wouldn't Brewha include a pressure regulator as standard equipment? At 5k a $10 regulator would be nothing to include. They are setting you up for failure.

Do you have a copy of the manual? Maybe we can be virtual customers.

 

[jeffreybandel]

Wow, that is crazy, you are saying if the drain is the least bit restricted it can crater the jacket due to the pressure? That really needs to have a pressure blow off like a water heater.

Chris

Agreed. If you go to around the 25:30 minute mark in the instruction video he says the best thing to do is run your chilling media as quickly as possible. You do not need to control the flow or anything. You just get it going.

 

[jeffreybandel]

This is really concerning, why in the heck wouldn't Brewha include a pressure regulator as standard equipment? At 5k a $10 regulator would be nothing to include. They are setting you up for failure.

Do you have a copy of the manual? Maybe we can be virtual customers.

No manual or instructions. I relied on the video titled "How to brew all grain beer with the BREWHA BIAC" that was on their website. Maybe I should have been scouring the internet for blog posts.

 

[Jimmy82]

When your BIAC came, did it come with instructions that warned about deformation when chilling?

No, it didn't come with instructions, but when mine shipped I received separate email from BREWHA with links to specific articles on their blog about safety, how to use it, tips, etc.

 

[Jimmy82]

No manual or instructions. I relied on the video titled "How to brew all grain beer with the BREWHA BIAC" that was on their website. Maybe I should have been scouring the internet for blog posts.

I can't remember the video as it's been a year since I watched it, but did he have a valve fitted to the "out" side of the jacket?

 

[jeffreybandel]

I can't remember the video as it's been a year since I watched it, but did he have a valve fitted to the "out" side of the jacket?

No. And he says specifically not to restrict the outflow with a valve.

 

[Jimmy82]

No. And he says specifically not to restrict the outflow with a valve.

Which is correct, and that's how I have mine set up. Maybe I misunderstood/misread, but I was under the impression you had a valve on the outlet of your BIAC jacket?

Either way, the only way to truly ensure pressure doesn't build up in the jacket is to regulate the pressure before it enters. There are options out there, and Nathan has always been upfront about the jacket pressure ratings.