Extract Belgian Wheat Critique

[rtstrider]

Hey everybody I will be brewing a white, wheat, something another this weekend and would like a critique on a recipe I came up with. My first ever batch of beer tasted like farts and rotten eggs (brewers best witbier recipe). I'll admit I rushed the heck out of it. 1 week primary, then bottles for maybe a week. I plan on letting this ferment as long as needed, 3-4 weeks or so, and carb up for 3 in the bottles. With that said I took a look at the Blue Balls blue moon clone recipe, one of the threads with the old Blue Moon brewer (cant remember the name and I apologize), and wanted something with a nice creamy/thick mouthfeel of the florida cracker (cigar city) belgian wheat. I also wanted a little twist with grapefruit instead of orange. Anywho here goes! Please critique away!

Extract

3 LB Wheat DME (60 min)
3 LB Wheat DME (15 min)

Grains

1 LB American White Wheat
1 LB Flaked Oats

Hops

2 OZ Hallertau Mittelfruh 60 min
(will sub with 2 OZ of Liberty (50 min boil) if the LHBS does not have Hallertau Mittelfruh)

Other Ingredients

1 OZ Grapefruit Peel (or peel of 4 fresh grapefruit) 10 min
1 OZ Corriander 10 min


Yeast

Wyeast Belgian Wheat 3942

Anticipated OG 1.056
Anticipated FG 1.014

Anticipated ABV 5.39%

IBU with Hallertau Mittelfruh 16.47

 

[cswis86]

Are you doing a mini mash with the pound of white wheat and flaked oats? If not I would just steep a 1/2 pound of oats and drop the rest of the grains. Did you use 3942 on your last witbier? I've gotten some sulfur from other Belgian strains (3522) but not 3942. Anyway, the sulfur smell will fade with conditioning so I think you're on the right track with fermenting for 3-4 weeks this time.

 

[rtstrider]

Hey cswis, I'm going to add the grains to a muslin bag and let it steep for 20 minutes or so around 155, remove, then boil the DME. I used safbrew wb-06 last wheat beer batch.

 

[cswis86]

Not familiar with wb-06 but I'm sure you'll like 3942. I think 20 min at 155 will get you enough conversion so I think your recipe is fine the way it is. Hope it turns out!

 

[IslandLizard]

I'd do a proper 1 hour mini mash with the wheat malt and flakes. Incorporate a 15-20' protein rest at 121-130F. It's much better, more efficient, than 20' "steeping." Use a gallon pot or so.

Make sure the kernels are crushed, whole kernels or large pieces do not convert easily. Flakes can be milled too for faster conversion.

 

[rtstrider]

Hey IslandLizard by protein rest do you mean get the water temp to 121-130 and let the crushed grains steep for 15-20 minutes? I've done the steep in 150 for 20 minutes before with the Quaffable Irish Red ale.

 

[ericbw]

I do grapefruit in summer ales. I peel the grapefruit and rip it into small pieces. Then I chop the fruit into like 6-8 pieces. Add all of that at the end - 5-0 minutes.

Grapefruit like that does add bitterness.

I have tried WB-06 a few times and never had luck. I just think it's not a very interesting yeast.

 

[IslandLizard]

Hey IslandLizard by protein rest do you mean get the water temp to 121-130 and let the crushed grains steep for 15-20 minutes? I've done the steep in 150 for 20 minutes before with the Quaffable Irish Red ale.

Yes. Mashing and steeping are very similar, except a mash is a bit more controlled.

For a combined "protein/beta-glucanase rest" you need to mash first at 122F for 15-20 minutes. This rest breaks down the gumminess of the mash (due to the large amount of wheat malt and wheat flakes) and leaves a thinner, more lauter-able mash.

Add about 3-3.5 quarts of 130F water to your 2 pounds of milled grain (1# malt and 1# flakes) and stir well. The temp should come out to around 122F. Place in a prewarmed but turned off oven of around the same temp. Or wrap the pot (with a good fitting lid on it) in a thick blanket, or sleeping bag. Let rest for 15-20 minutes. This rest will break down proteins and beta glucans, reducing gumminess.

Now after the protein/beta-glucanase rest it also needs a saccharification rest (between 148F and 158F), to convert the starches into sugars. To do this, heat up slowly (with constant stirring) to 150F, stick back in pre-warmed oven or wrap up, and let stand another 40 minutes.

You could put all the grains in a large grain-steeping bag, so it's easier to lauter (separate the grains from the wort), just pull the bag and give a gentle squeeze. Without using a bag, dump the whole content into a colander or sieve, then pour the captured wort through the heap of grain again, to filter.

Rinse and repeat (sparge).

You've just performed a mini mash (or partial mash)!

Now add this captured wort to your boil kettle and proceed with the brewing process as usual.

 

[rtstrider]

I would like to experiment with a late full DME addition with this also. Of course with the hops adjusted to account for bitterness...Say 6 lbs of wheat dme at flame out and 1oz Hallertau Mittelfruh with a 40 minute boil. I was thinking this would give a lighter colored beer also? I ran this through the brewersfriend calculator and it came out around 17 IBU. I was thinking that would be ok since I'm going to follow IslandLizards advice and do a mini mash prior. Any ideas?

 

[IslandLizard]

I would like to experiment with a late full DME addition with this also. Of course with the hops adjusted to account for bitterness...Say 6 lbs of wheat dme at flame out and 1oz Hallertau Mittelfruh with a 40 minute boil. I was thinking this would give a lighter colored beer also? I ran this through the brewersfriend calculator and it came out around 17 IBU. I was thinking that would be ok since I'm going to follow IslandLizards advice and do a mini mash prior. Any ideas?

I would add some DME to the runnings from your mini mash. Add just enough to bring the total boil gravity to around 1.030-1.040. I have read somewhere that hops need some malt in the boil. IOW, boiling hops in very low gravity wort may not be beneficial for the hops.

Then add the rest of the DME after flameout.

A 40 minute boil should be enough. Keep in mind, there may be some DMS from the wheat malt that you need to drive off during the boil.

2 Questions:

• I just reread your OP. That White Wheat you have in your recipe is that Wheat Malt or Flaked Wheat?
• Are you doing a full volume (6-6.5 gallon) boil?

 

[rtstrider]

I was going to use the white wheat malt and will be doing a 2.5 gallon boil. I was under the assumption that was flaked. I looked at my LHBS site and realized that's a malt. I'd like to leave that in there and have added .5 lbs flaked wheat to the recipe! Thanks for the catch! It looks like if I add 1.5 lbs of dme at the beginning and 4.5lbs at the end that will get me to the 1.040 boil gravity.

 

[IslandLizard]

I was going to use the white wheat malt and will be doing a 2.5 gallon boil. I can change that to flaked wheat or add a bit of flaked wheat if that's recommended. I'll admit I'm new to this so pardon the ignorance lol

brewersfriend says this would be a 1.111 gravity boil

As long as you're 100% sure your White Wheat IS White Wheat Malt (milled malt kernels), and not flaked wheat, you can do that mash. Wheat Malt has a light tan color. It's not white, as flaked wheat or flaked oats are.

Malt contains diastatic enzymes, from the malting process. Those are able to convert the starches in the grain to sugars, in the mash. That's what we're after.

Flaked Wheat is unmalted, just rolled raw wheat berries and has NO diastatic power. Looks like oatmeal.

 

[IslandLizard]

2.5 gallon boil is fine, add enough water to your runnings from the the mash to get that volume, and perhaps one pound of your DME to get some gravity (1.030 or so).

Do you start with 2.5 gallons and boil that down to 1.5-2 gallons during the 40 minutes boil?

BF calculates as if you were adding ALL the DME into your 2.5 gallon boil from the start (which would be very wrong). Just ignore that.

 

[rtstrider]

The white wheat I'm looking at is on the LHBS site https://www.garysbrew.com/grain-selection I'm assuming that would be malt? If I add say .5lbs of flaked wheat could I still do the mash or would you not recommend adding in flaked wheat also?

edit: I start with around 1.5 to 2 gallons and top off to 2.5 once the mash is done. So what would normally be considered a 60 minute boil starts off at around 2.5 gallons

 

[IslandLizard]

The white wheat I'm looking at is on the LHBS site https://www.garysbrew.com/grain-selection I'm assuming that would be malt? If I add say .5lbs of flaked wheat could I still do the mash or would you not recommend adding in flaked wheat also?

The last entry in the left column? Well, I don't know if that's malt. He has torrified wheat in the same column, and that is not malt (it's "puffed" wheat berries).

But then again, White Wheat not listed under "Flaked" so it may be malt.

Did you buy it yet? If not, make 100% sure you are getting wheat malt.

Yep, you can add up to a pound of flaked wheat to that mash, in addition to the pound of flaked oats (and the pound of Wheat Malt). Any flaked oats will do, the stuff you buy in the supermarket is the same stuff, either Instant Oats or Old Fashioned can be used. Just nothing that has flavoring or other stuff added.

edit: I start with around 1.5 to 2 gallons and top off to 2.5 once the mash is done. So what would normally be considered a 60 minute boil starts off at around 2.5 gallons

I guess you meant steep, not mash.

Mashing and steeping are a bit different in that regard. You can steep in any amount of water. But mashing should be done with a certain amount of water, between 1.25 and 2.5 quarts per pound of grain. Read my instructions in #8 (I used around 1.5 qt/lb).

If your kettle can boil only 2.5 gallons, you have little choice, which is fine. You could top up during the boil (with hot or boiling water) so your wort doesn't get too concentrated. Most brewers typically boil off 1-1.5 gallons per hour, but it largely depends on the system, burner capacity, and other things.

For a wheat beer hop utilization is not all that restrictive, it's fairly low hopped with low bitterness. But for Pale Ales or IPAs, the hoppier and more bitterness you need, a larger boil volume may be required. Keep that in mind.

In BF, punch in the numbers for your actual boil gravity, and see what it does for your IBUs. Count on getting 80% (efficiency) of 35 pts = 28 gravity points per pound of grain used in your mini mash. So for a pound of wheat malt plus a pound of flaked oats you'll get 2x28=56 points. If you add a pound of wheat flakes to it, it will yield 3x28=84 points.

For the 2 pound mash, you'd get a wort gravity of 56 pts/2.5 gallons = 1.022 just from the mash. Adding one pound of DME to that (45 pts/2.5 gallons = 1.018) will bring the bring the pre-boil wort gravity to 1.020 + 1.018 = 1.040, which is what you want.

 

[rtstrider]

I just reached out to the LHBS. They stated their White Wheat is a grain and not a malt. Here's what I have setup currently

1lb white wheat
1lb flaked wheat
1 lb flaked oats

Should I leave this bill as is or should I sub the flaked wheat for 1 lb of say pale 2 row malt? Brewers friend shows that the pale malt would get 5.21% and if I used the flaked wheat I'd get to around 5.19% so not much difference. If I use the above white wheat, flaked wheat, and oats would I be safe to steep?

My main thing is I really want to do a mini mash since the pale ale I've built up will require it. This is my "get my feet wet" test run of doing that. I know different beer, but, I wanted to learn a thing or two on the way.

 

[IslandLizard]

I just reached out to the LHBS. They stated their White Wheat is a grain and not a malt. Here's what I have setup currently

1lb white wheat
1lb flaked wheat
1 lb flaked oats

Should I leave this bill as is or should I sub the flaked wheat for 1 lb of say pale 2 row malt? Brewers friend shows that the pale malt would get 5.21% and if I used the flaked wheat I'd get to around 5.19% so not much difference. If I use the above white wheat, flaked wheat, and oats would I be safe to steep?

My main thing is I really want to do a mini mash since the pale ale I've built up will require it. This is my "get my feet wet" test run of doing that. I know different beer, but, I wanted to learn a thing or two on the way.

Glad you checked that!

As I said before, you need a diastatic malt to convert those grains. In this case since the "White Wheat" is NOT diastatic, it's no use here. Instead, you will need a pound of that Red Wheat Malt for $1.76 he's got on the list. That's diastatic (has enzymes) enough to convert itself plus the pound each of flaked wheat and flaked oats.

Mind you:
Wheat kernels are small, make sure they get milled finely, and don't drop through the mill's gap uncrushed. Mill 2x or 3x when in doubt. You should not see any whole kernels after milling, just small pieces, around 1/16" at the most, and some powder (flour).

Much more information about the mashing process here:
How to Brew - Brewing All Grain (and Partial Mash) Beer

 

[rtstrider]

I brewed this yesterday and it's fermenting now. I got some paint strainer bags. One of the guys at the LHBS recommended steeping the wheat at 113 for 45 minutes, add the oats, then mash at 155 for one hour. I did that and sparged with around a gallon of 170 degree water. After that I added the 1.5 lb's dme and hops (regular Hallertau 2.5% AA). One the brew was finished I used Wyeast 3068 since they didn't have the 3942 in stock. They recommended I place the fermenter in a cold water bath. It's been in a rubbermaid tub since around noon yesterday and I've been swapping out the frozen ice jugs (gallon size) twice a day. They said to do this for around 2-3 days then bring up the temp a bit. Otherwise I'll get really heavy banana and bubblegum flavors from the yeast. They said fermenting low the first couple of days brings out the clove flavor. I have a blowoff tube setup since I've read how this can be an aggressive yeast. Here's to ending up with a good brew! Thanks for the advice everyone!

P.S. The spent grains are in the freezer. Combining these with the next batches grains for dog treats

 

[ericbw]

Sounds good. Personally, I would let it get warm to get the banana instead of clove. I love that! But if you prefer clove, the water bath should keep it low enough.

 

[IslandLizard]

WY3944 (Belgian Wit), White Labs WLP400, WLP410, or some other Belgian Wheat strain like Forbidden Fruit (WY3463) would have been a much better and more appropriate replacement yeast for a Belgian Wheat Beer.

You're getting some sort of Hefeweizen now. Still, it should taste good. If you hate the taste of bananas in a beer, keeping it cool is the right approach. It will smell a bit farty too, but that should dissipate after 2 weeks conditioning.

 

[ericbw]

Yeah, I forgot this was a blue moon clone.

 

[rtstrider]

Alright it's now day 2 of an active fermentation. If I want to completely kill (or come close to it) the banana flavor how long should I leave the fermenter in an ice bath? I was planning on doing this for 3 days at least. That means I'd be taking the ice out around noon-ish tomorrow.

Here's part 2 of the question. The room it's in can get up to around 76ish during the summer. So to help compensate should I maybe freeze some smaller bottles and still use the ice bath method? Just make sure to not use as much ice for the rest of the 7 days?

I was planning on doing the 3/3 method. Meaning leaving this in the fermenter for 3 weeks and bottle conditioning 3 weeks. Would that be ok?

 

[ericbw]

That's what I usually do - 3-4 weeks in fermenter and at least 2 weeks in the bottle warm, then at least 1 week cold.

 

[rtstrider]

It's been exactly a week since this has started. The constant water temp in the ice bath has been in the 60f-62f range. I have changed over from gallon ice jugs to a frozen 2 liter every 12 hours. This has brought the water temp to the 68f range. Is this too cold and if so should I bring the fermenter up to room temp the next week or two?

 

[ericbw]

Let it free rise now.

 

[rtstrider]

Room temp it is! Means I have a container to store Ed Worts Apfelwein now...So looks like today has turned into bottling day

 

[rtstrider]

I just took a sample and it's at 1.016. seeing as the beer has warmed up I re-roused the yeast and will take a reading again next weekend to see if this changes. The flavor was a bitter flavor (not infection) which I'm fairly confident the yeast will clean up this week. I had the same flavor the first witbier I brewed about a day after bottling and the yeast took a week or so to clean it up. The banana notes are subtle and there is absolutely no sulphur flavor/smell! I will invest in iodine for the next batch I brew so I can confirm the sugars have been fully converted next mini mash

 

[rtstrider]

Bottled yesterday. This was like a very thick bodied blue moon. If blue moon was a stout (body wise) this would be it. So that's what I was going for. There was a hint of banana flavor but all I could really taste was corriander which was fine by me lol. No grapefruit peel taste at all. FG stuck at 1.016. Giving this the ol 3 weeks in the bottle and busting it open.

 

[rtstrider]

Tried one of these yesterday and there's a bitter flavor in there. They are definitely carbed up. This is not like an infection bitter but tastes like a strong citrus rind bitter. Is it possible I used too much grapefruit peel or 10 minutes boiling was too long? I used 1 oz brewers best grapefruit peel for a 10 minute boil. Also used 1oz coriander (brewers best and I crushed it with a rolling pin) for 10 minutes in the boil.