Normanras
Member
Long time lurker. I've come close to posting, but then the problem had resolved itself. Yet, with this I am a bit flummoxed/curious about what anyone who is willing to read has to say. Here it goes. I've also posted this on Twitter, but despite the home-brew community on there, no one really responded. @normrasmussen
I do these experiments about twice a year - 2-3 gallons split into three 1gal carboys with different yeasts pitched. Two of the yeasts (y1 and y2) were first tested for taste, then used in a starter for this recipe. y3 was not started, see below. Here's the recipe for this experiment:
Yeasts:
y1 - Wild - harvested from strawberries on a farm in upstate NY. Prelim tests were very good.
y2 - Mixed - A mix of slurries from older brews. All ale yeasts. Prelim tests tasted good and fermented well, the starter was consistent with the first test.
y3 - NIPA - Just what I called it, it is a slurry from some pretty old (10 months) nugget IPA attempt that turned out more of an english bitter. Based on roughly 1.5m/mil cell count, I had adequate slurry for the amount of wort.
Recipe:
Water: 3 gal
OG: 1.076
SRM: 8.23
IBU: 104.31
2 teaspoons of Gypsum added according to water profile. Unfortunately, I don't have the data recorded on it.
1# Amber DME
3.3# Pilsen LME
.5# Brown Sugar
Hops:
.5oz Cascade @60
.5oz Cascade @ 30
.5oz Citra @15
.5oz Citra @ 10
.5oz Citra @ 5
.5oz Citra @ 0
Starters:
Both 1.035 gravity worts, .5L for y1 and y2 started for roughly 24-28 hours.
y3 was pitched directly from slurry at room temperature.
So, brew day went well, after all it was all extract. It was my first time using my new induction burner (and kept the lid on to keep the boil) and therefore there was way less boil off than I expected. I figured a gallon would boil off and barely .5 boiled off. Since I had .5gal of wort left over, thats where y3 decided got to used. So y1 and y2 were pitched into a gallon of wort, y3 in .5gal.
Now. Fermentation schedule and the change, or lack there of. On y1 and y2, the fermentation started very vigorously and overflowed with krausen. I should have put a blow off tube! I was super confident at this point as visually things seemed to be going very well and mirrored prior experiments.
12/27/16 - All yeasts pitched. 60 degrees fermentation chamber.
12/30/16 - 60 degrees
1/4/17 - 68 degrees
1/5/17 - 68 degrees and first gravity reading:
y1: 1.040
y2: 1.032
y3: 1.050
I am the most surprised by y3 as there was so little change after almost a week. None of them pushed the needle (or hydrometer) as much as I had hoped. I persevered in patience.
1/9/17 - 68 degrees
y1: 1.040
y2: 1.024
y3: 1.050
Okay, so y2 was making progress. I added yeast nutrient - to y1 and y3 to see what would happen.
1/13/17 - 68 degrees
y1: 1.032
y2: 1.020
y3: 1.050
Progress with y1, albeit slow. y3, nothing. I had done some reading on other forums and decided to add a quarter of a packet of Lavin K1-V1116 wine yeast. After a day or two, there was no visual change.
1/17/17 - 68 degrees
y1: 1.024
y2: 1.018
y3: 1.046
Everything is still dropping. Not too shabby, sort of. I'm thinking of just bottling y2 soon, as 1.018 is not as low as I expected and the taste of the hops is still there (though not as floral), and it is low enough. That's 75% attenuation. Acceptable. y1 I will leave longer and see if it keeps dropping. It is only at 67% attenuation.
y3 is dropping, and may continue. Or it may not. It is a bit confusing to me.
I wanted to pose the question to whomever is listening - y1 and y2 performed fantastically in tests, and starter. Though I wish I had put some science behind it and taken some readings from the beginning.
Here are some of my questions/hypotheses.
I suppose fermenting for a month really isn't too bad?
Outside of all these questions - do you think I am asking/expecting too much of these yeasts that may not be "beer ready" because of their age or type (being harvested, y1)?
My current plan is to bottle y2 within the week, and continue my patient waiting on everything else to see how much more it drops with possibly adding yeast nutrient to y3.
Thanks everyone!!
I do these experiments about twice a year - 2-3 gallons split into three 1gal carboys with different yeasts pitched. Two of the yeasts (y1 and y2) were first tested for taste, then used in a starter for this recipe. y3 was not started, see below. Here's the recipe for this experiment:
Yeasts:
y1 - Wild - harvested from strawberries on a farm in upstate NY. Prelim tests were very good.
y2 - Mixed - A mix of slurries from older brews. All ale yeasts. Prelim tests tasted good and fermented well, the starter was consistent with the first test.
y3 - NIPA - Just what I called it, it is a slurry from some pretty old (10 months) nugget IPA attempt that turned out more of an english bitter. Based on roughly 1.5m/mil cell count, I had adequate slurry for the amount of wort.
Recipe:
Water: 3 gal
OG: 1.076
SRM: 8.23
IBU: 104.31
2 teaspoons of Gypsum added according to water profile. Unfortunately, I don't have the data recorded on it.
1# Amber DME
3.3# Pilsen LME
.5# Brown Sugar
Hops:
.5oz Cascade @60
.5oz Cascade @ 30
.5oz Citra @15
.5oz Citra @ 10
.5oz Citra @ 5
.5oz Citra @ 0
Starters:
Both 1.035 gravity worts, .5L for y1 and y2 started for roughly 24-28 hours.
y3 was pitched directly from slurry at room temperature.
So, brew day went well, after all it was all extract. It was my first time using my new induction burner (and kept the lid on to keep the boil) and therefore there was way less boil off than I expected. I figured a gallon would boil off and barely .5 boiled off. Since I had .5gal of wort left over, thats where y3 decided got to used. So y1 and y2 were pitched into a gallon of wort, y3 in .5gal.
Now. Fermentation schedule and the change, or lack there of. On y1 and y2, the fermentation started very vigorously and overflowed with krausen. I should have put a blow off tube! I was super confident at this point as visually things seemed to be going very well and mirrored prior experiments.
12/27/16 - All yeasts pitched. 60 degrees fermentation chamber.
12/30/16 - 60 degrees
1/4/17 - 68 degrees
1/5/17 - 68 degrees and first gravity reading:
y1: 1.040
y2: 1.032
y3: 1.050
I am the most surprised by y3 as there was so little change after almost a week. None of them pushed the needle (or hydrometer) as much as I had hoped. I persevered in patience.
1/9/17 - 68 degrees
y1: 1.040
y2: 1.024
y3: 1.050
Okay, so y2 was making progress. I added yeast nutrient - to y1 and y3 to see what would happen.
1/13/17 - 68 degrees
y1: 1.032
y2: 1.020
y3: 1.050
Progress with y1, albeit slow. y3, nothing. I had done some reading on other forums and decided to add a quarter of a packet of Lavin K1-V1116 wine yeast. After a day or two, there was no visual change.
1/17/17 - 68 degrees
y1: 1.024
y2: 1.018
y3: 1.046
Everything is still dropping. Not too shabby, sort of. I'm thinking of just bottling y2 soon, as 1.018 is not as low as I expected and the taste of the hops is still there (though not as floral), and it is low enough. That's 75% attenuation. Acceptable. y1 I will leave longer and see if it keeps dropping. It is only at 67% attenuation.
y3 is dropping, and may continue. Or it may not. It is a bit confusing to me.
I wanted to pose the question to whomever is listening - y1 and y2 performed fantastically in tests, and starter. Though I wish I had put some science behind it and taken some readings from the beginning.
Here are some of my questions/hypotheses.
- Could the higher amount of hops (than I used in the prelim tests or starter), along with the higher gravity, be a factor in inhibiting cell growth in wild or older slurry yeasts? I thought the starter would cancel out the higher gravity wort, but who knows.
- Perhaps in the mixed (which performed the best, so far) slurry the cell count was lower than I anticipated? This may also be true in the y3 slurry?
- It seemed the yeast nutrient worked well. Could it be added to y2 this late in the game to try and push it a couple more points? I intend to harvest these yeasts again for future use.
- Maybe the gypsum addition messed something up?
I suppose fermenting for a month really isn't too bad?
Outside of all these questions - do you think I am asking/expecting too much of these yeasts that may not be "beer ready" because of their age or type (being harvested, y1)?
My current plan is to bottle y2 within the week, and continue my patient waiting on everything else to see how much more it drops with possibly adding yeast nutrient to y3.
Thanks everyone!!
