Equipment Causing Infection?

[Gicelata]

I’ve been brewing for just under a year and have approximately 8 batches under my belt. Each beer has come out infected. I think my equipment may have become contaminated somewhere along the way. In between my first few brews I was storing my equipment down in my basement and think mold or something else might have clung onto my equipment and has been wreaking havoc on my beers ever since.

A little about my process and equipment – I brew all grain using a 10 gallon plastic cooler and 10 gallon kettle. I create a starter for most batches, filter my water, am meticulous about sanitation, aerate the work before pitching yeast, and store the fermenting beer in temp controlled freezer. After each batch I clean my equipment with PBW, usually soaking my equipment overnight. The next day I rinse my equipment off and then allow to drip dry. I sanitize with StarSan. On brew day I have a squirt bottle of StarSan and also a bucket mixed with water and StarStan to hold misc items that need to sanitized (airlocks, tubing for post boil, bungs, etc).

After fermentation my beers tend to taste good and the color appears to be correct. The beer also tends to ferment down to the approximate desired gravity. However, after being in bottles for a few weeks the flavor tends to morph considerable (not in a good way) and the color typically darkens considerably almost to an amber color. I have particularly noticed this with IPAs that come out of the fermenter a nice yellow/orange to only darken to an almost amber color. I figured my issue was related to something post fermentation so I replaced my bottling bucket, bottle filler, bottles. I even replaced my fermenter. No luck – my next IPA batch had the same results. As a brief overview, my bottling process involves sanitizing the bottles by soaking them in water and StarSan, allowing them to dry on a bottle rack, fill with beer and cap with sanitized bottle caps. These bottles are then stored in the chest freezer at appropriate ale fermentation temps.

Since then I have replaced my autosypon and all my tubing. The only two items I haven’t replaced are my mash tun and kettle.

Is it possible that my kettle and mash tun are contaminated and causing the infections? Could this contamination be escaping the PBW and I need something stronger to clean this up? Or worst case, is it time to replace them?

Thanks the input!

PS I’ve never brewed a sour with this equipment.

 

[Gicelata]

As a side note - boils are typically a rolling 60 min boil. I then chill the wort down with an immersion chiller before transferring to the fermenter and pitching yeast.

 

[mongoose33]

Since you're boiling, anything that goes into the boil will be sterilized by the boil, so if you're getting an infection is has to be post-boil.

If you're using an immersion chiller, are you putting it into the boiling wort 10 minutes before you start chilling? How about dripping water into the chilled wort?

 

[Gicelata]

I was thinking the same thing with the boil. But after batches of infection I was thinking it had to be something else.

I put the immersion chiller in the boiling wort with 15 mins left in the boil.

What do you mean by the dripping water? From the immersion chiller?

 

[ChelisHubby]

Fermention is where the problem is. Fermenter, blowoff tube, airlock, and bung is likely where the problem is. If the bottles are clean and sanitized then it has to happen before it goes into them, but after the boil. I have got my butt kicked by this a couple of times.

 

[chickypad]

After fermentation my beers tend to taste good and the color appears to be correct. The beer also tends to ferment down to the approximate desired gravity. However, after being in bottles for a few weeks the flavor tends to morph considerable (not in a good way) and the color typically darkens considerably almost to an amber color. I have particularly noticed this with IPAs that come out of the fermenter a nice yellow/orange to only darken to an almost amber color.

What exactly are the flavor changes, is it getting sour? Your description sounds like to could be oxidation also.

 

[PaulNoonan]

I had this happen to me before I changed. Found out the problem was my entire family and I all had stink holes. Unfortunately there is no way to properly sanitize a stink hole. What I started to do and ultimately found that fixed the constant infections of my beer was I wore an austronaut helmet during the boil.

 

[Titleist3]

After fermentation my beers tend to taste good and the color appears to be correct. The beer also tends to ferment down to the approximate desired gravity. However, after being in bottles for a few weeks the flavor tends to morph considerable (not in a good way) and the color typically darkens considerably almost to an amber color. I have particularly noticed this with IPAs that come out of the fermenter a nice yellow/orange to only darken to an almost amber color.

I ran into this same problem. If the gravity of your beer in the bottle is not lower than the post fermentation gravity, then it's not likely an infection.

I went through some of the same things you did - new tubing, new auto-syphon, changed bottling procedure (oxy caps, capping on foam, high fills). Nothing seemed to help. A LHBS employee suggested that it might be oxidation. I decided to switch to kegging and using a closed transfer system with purged kegs and the problem went away. There were no other process changes (except that I now cold crash in the keg while force carbonating).

I now have 2 beers kegged, both IPAs, and one has been in there since April 2 and it's still the same color and tastes the same as the day it went in the keg. I haven't tried to solve this issue with bottling - I'll probably bottle out of the keg in the future when I need to, so I'm not looking for that solution anymore.

 

[IslandLizard]

... sanitizing the bottles by soaking them in water and StarSan, allowing them to dry on a bottle rack...

Your sanitation regimen looks spot on, except for this small oversight, which could be a minute but possible source of infection. To remain sanitized, bottles should stay wet with Starsan clinging to it (both liquid and foam) during filling, until capped. Your bottle rack could harbor bugs.

Otherwise, what you're describing is a prime example of oxidation of your beer. Air gets mixed into your beer, either through headspace, imperfect racking, gurgling, splashing, etc. Do you use a secondary?

 

[CUrchin]

Do the beers taste sour or like vinegar? Are you getting gushers and/or bottle bombs? Are you getting a nasty film on top of the beer at any point (even in the bottles)? If not, is it really infected? Could it be something else (oxidation, fermenting too warm, incorrect mash temps, crap yeast, poor ingredients, etc).

Beer during transfer will look light because the tubing, etc. does not have as much volume as a glass. Truthfully, color would be the last thing I would worry about, particularly with an IPA- People accept a lot of things with an IPA (sometimes downright murky) and therefore I would worry about taste well before color. Also, if it's extract the color tends to come out darker. Also, some of the yeast dropping out may affect the color.

 

[Aristotelian]

Based on your description of both the process and the results, I suspect oxidation more than infection.

It looks like everything is correct though your fermentation. You say it tastes good at bottling. If it was infected at that point, you would see a pellicle or taste vinegar.

The only thing you don't describe is your bottling process. Do you autosiphon directly into bottles? Do you use a bottling wand? Siphoning directly into bottles could be tricky and I could see that causing some oxidation. Best way is to use a bottling bucket with wand attached to the spigot. Rack carefully into the bucket and stir priming syrup gently into the beer. Use the wand and you should get no oxygen.

 

[RM-MN]

To me, your description sounds like you are bottling your beer very early and have a lot of yeast suspended. That suspended yeast reflects light and gives your beer the light color. As the beer sits in the bottles the yeast settles out and the light is no longer reflected but passes through the beer and the beer darkens and changes flavor. This beer still isn't mature and does not taste like it should but if you leave it sit for another 2 or 3 weeks its flavor will change some more, usually for the better.
I'd suggest you make another batch and leave it in the fermenter for 3 to 4 weeks before you bottle it, then give it another 3 weeks before you open the first.

 

[kh54s10]

To me, your description sounds like you are bottling your beer very early and have a lot of yeast suspended. That suspended yeast reflects light and gives your beer the light color. As the beer sits in the bottles the yeast settles out and the light is no longer reflected but passes through the beer and the beer darkens and changes flavor. This beer still isn't mature and does not taste like it should but if you leave it sit for another 2 or 3 weeks its flavor will change some more, usually for the better.
I'd suggest you make another batch and leave it in the fermenter for 3 to 4 weeks before you bottle it, then give it another 3 weeks before you open the first.

I disagree with this when considering that the beer is an IPA. Bottle fairly soon after fermentation has ended and the beer gets mostly clear. 10-14 days. (or 5-7 days after dry hopping) IPAs begin losing hop flavor and aroma quickly.

I also noticed allowing the Starsan to dry. If it is dry the sanitizing action is no longer happening. Try not using the drying tree in case it is an infection and this is the source.

Oxidation is what comes to mind for me also.

Describe your bottling routine to see if anything in the process might be suspect.

 

[myelo]

Have you checked your bottling wand and spigot on your bottling bucket? Those are good places for residue to hide.

I had a problem with mild infections that started showing up after about 1 month in the bottle. They tasted fine at bottling. I was sanitizing the heck out of everything but still had problems. Finally I took apart my bottling wand and in the tip where the little spring and valve is was a tiny chunk of black gunk -- just enough the infect every beer at bottling.

Big beers like IIPAs, and imperial stouts were fine, I assume because the high ABV and or high hops were preventing the infection. But the other beers were tasting off after about 4 weeks, a little thin and less sweet/malt. After that they started to gush.

 

[jamina1]

I would second taking apart your bottling wand and inspecting bottling bucket spigots, etc. The end of the bottling wand comes apart - just be sure you take it apart over a container as you may otherwise lose the little spring which makes it work. There's a spring and a small plastic piece that opens the bottling wand when you press down. It's very common for hop residue to get stuck in there, too - and if not cleaned could definitely be causing infection problems.

 

[IslandLizard]

Have you checked your bottling wand and spigot on your bottling bucket? Those are good places for residue to hide.

I had a problem with mild infections that started showing up after about 1 month in the bottle. They tasted fine at bottling. I was sanitizing the heck out of everything but still had problems. Finally I took apart my bottling wand and in the tip where the little spring and valve is was a tiny chunk of black gunk -- just enough the infect every beer at bottling.

Big beers like IIPAs, and imperial stouts were fine, I assume because the high ABV and or high hops were preventing the infection. But the other beers were tasting off after about 4 weeks, a little thin and less sweet/malt. After that they started to gush.

The spigot on your bottling bucket also comes apart. Pay special attention to the two 3/4" barrels that rotate into one another. Submerge in very hot water for 20-30 seconds to soften up, then push them apart. I found black slimy residue in that narrow space between them.

 

[mongoose33]

I was thinking the same thing with the boil. But after batches of infection I was thinking it had to be something else.

I put the immersion chiller in the boiling wort with 15 mins left in the boil.

What do you mean by the dripping water? From the immersion chiller?

Yes, water dripping into the chilling wort from the IC. Mine is a silver serpent which has the feed and output lines bent down over the lip of the boil kettle so if there is dripping it's not going into the kettle. Which, from time to time, there is.

 

[mongoose33]

The spigot on your bottling bucket also comes apart. Pay special attention to the two 3/4" barrels that rotate into one another. Submerge in very hot water for 20-30 seconds to soften up, then push them apart. I found black slimy residue in that narrow space between them.

Hmmm....I remove the spigots from my fermentors when I clean them and soak them in PBW for 20 minutes before rinsing, Star-Sanning, and then reinstalling them, but I didn't know they came apart.

I've read that new brewers tend to get their first infection around 10-12 brews in, as that's either when cleaning/sanitation is done more haphazardly, or accumulated junk accumulates.

I've got two fermentors going right now, both w/ spigots. I'm taking 'em apart when I clean them, as you note above.

 

[seatazzz]

I got my first infection about 2 batches ago. I'm pretty thorough with sanitizing, so I couldn't figure it out. The spigot on my fermenter was the culprit. Now I keep all of my spigots that aren't currently in use in a mason jar with sanitizer, completely taken apart, without the rubber grommet (don't want it to crumble). It's kinda depressing that it's currently full with three! Brewing again this weekend.

 

[Gicelata]

Thank you everyone for your responses -- I really appreciate the insight.

After drinking a bottle last weekend and really thinking about the taste, I think my batches have been getting oxygenated during the bottling process instead of being infected. None of the beers smell like vinegar or have any pellicle forming. For most of my IPAs, I wait 3 to 4 weeks to bottle. I don't leave the beer on the yeast cake for more than 4 weeks. When bottling I carefully siphon the beer from my fermenter to my bottling bucket with an auto siphon and hosing. I limit any splashing when transferring to the bottling bucket and carefully add the priming sugar when half the beer is racked to the bottling bucket. My bottling bucket has a spigot on the bottom to which I attach a bottling wand. After 3 or 4 unsuccessful batches, I took apart the bottling wand and cleaned it. Eventually I replaced the wand and bottling bucket and unfortunately had similarly unsuccessful results. I cant pin point where the issue has been occurring in my process.

Nevertheless, this past weekend I purchased a keg. Luckily my brother had a kegerator he wasn't using with a spare CO2 tank. I kegged a batch this past weekend and tried a sample today and it was delicious. Color was spot on and flavor was what I was aiming for. The beer still tastes young, but I will let everyone know how the beer cleans up. For anyone bottling and thinking about kegging, I highly recommend it. It is a much easier process than cleaning and sanitizing 2 cases of bottles. I am seriously kicking myself for not kegging sooner. As a side note, I always thought i needed a kegerator in order to keg, but as long as you have a fridge with room for a corny keg and a CO2 tank you should be ok. Just make sure to get a dispenser with the beer line and you'll be able to fill up from the keg.

Thanks again for all the insight!