english ipa critiques

[andrea93]

Hi! here there is the recipe for my next batch, a classic english ipa:

5 gallon batch
og 1063 ibu 59 srm 9

10lb maris otter (80%)
1.9lb munich malt 10L (15%)
0.6lb carared 25L (5%)

0.7oz challenger 60min
0.4oz hall magnum 60 min
1oz challenger 10min
1oz golding 10 min
1oz challenger 0 min
1oz golding 0 min

yeast wlp013

the quantities of hops for dryhopping will be decided after some days of fermentation.

My previous batch of EIPA was too hoppy: some grassy and vegetable notes, and malts totally overwhelmed by hops. In that batch I put 5.5oz of hops in the last 20 min of boils.
I am looking for a more balanced version of the style, where malts are present but hops can shine well.
I am interested in all kind of suggestion to my recipe, but in particular I'd like to know what do you think about my hop schedule.
Thank you in advice!

 

[brokebucket]

I am interested to know why you would choose Munich malt and Magnum hops, both German ingredients. You are so close to a "classic" English IPA, why not use all English ingredients.

If I were designing this, I would keep the Maris Otter, add a pound of British Crystal in the 40-80 range, and maybe something for head retention if you want it.

I would also simplify the hops schedule a bit, keeping the bittering charge all challenger, and drop the magnum....it's a clean bittering hop anyways, it's really not helping you so why add it? Push the 2nd addition back to 20 minutes if you need to bump up your bitterness a bit.

Seeing as how the British IPA's that I have tasted are pretty muted on the hop flavoring (comparatively, of course), I would think that 3 oz dry hops should be the money zone.

Of course, this is just my .02....but I would definitely not put German ingredients in a beer I wanted to call a classic British ______....and vice versa.

 

[andrea93]

I am interested to know why you would choose Munich malt and Magnum hops, both German ingredients. You are so close to a "classic" English IPA, why not use all English ingredients.

If I were designing this, I would keep the Maris Otter, add a pound of British Crystal in the 40-80 range, and maybe something for head retention if you want it.

I would also simplify the hops schedule a bit, keeping the bittering charge all challenger, and drop the magnum....it's a clean bittering hop anyways, it's really not helping you so why add it? Push the 2nd addition back to 20 minutes if you need to bump up your bitterness a bit.

Seeing as how the British IPA's that I have tasted are pretty muted on the hop flavoring (comparatively, of course), I would think that 3 oz dry hops should be the money zone.

Of course, this is just my .02....but I would definitely not put German ingredients in a beer I wanted to call a classic British ______....and vice versa.

thank you for your reply!
I can easily understand your doubts. My answer is based on two ideas that i put in all my beers:
1) when i brew something near the classic idea a certain style, i think that what must be classic is the final product: colour, aroma, flavour, ecc and not necessarily the list of the ingredients.
2) I want all my beers are easy to drink and have a very clean afteraste.

Considering these two points I've decided to use Munich malt to enhance maltiness (to improve the faults of my previous batch) without the excessive sweetness of a large amount of crystal malt(s). I don't want a cloying beer. I've read that a lot of homebrewers use munich/vienna malt in their IPAs to balance the beer without adding strong caramel flavour.
I've add magnum as bittering hop to have a cleaner aftertaste, I use it in almost all my beers. I think that one of the reasons of the excessive hop presence in my previous batch is the massive amount of english hop in the bittering addition that are certainly not as clean as magnum.

 

[NSMikeD]

I think what you are doing is great- your use of classic is misleading. For example, I am not sure the late hop additions to an English IPA would be classic nor would the lack of some oak (but then again, we could also debate the legitimacy of the IPA style to begin with).


It's all personal preference. There are times when I will try something classic (beer or food etc) and it's not only about the final product but also the journey, taking a ride back to another time and place and so the source of ingredients would matter (great podcast from NB about an old style stout).

Then there are other times where I fully enjoy deviating from the "classic" and making it my own.

The important thing here is not any labels, but rather you tried a NEIPA and knew what you didn't like and now are make changes closer to your likes.

I think what you are doing is closer to an American IPA without the big citrus (big, lots of last addition hop notes while mixing and matching ingredients), and the recipe looks tasty.

 

[Jwin]

Maybe biscuit malt instead of the munich?

 

[andrea93]

I think what you are doing is great- your use of classic is misleading. For example, I am not sure the late hop additions to an English IPA would be classic nor would the lack of some oak (but then again, we could also debate the legitimacy of the IPA style to begin with).


It's all personal preference. There are times when I will try something classic (beer or food etc) and it's not only about the final product but also the journey, taking a ride back to another time and place and so the source of ingredients would matter (great podcast from NB about an old style stout).

Then there are other times where I fully enjoy deviating from the "classic" and making it my own.

The important thing here is not any labels, but rather you tried a NEIPA and knew what you didn't like and now are make changes closer to your likes.

I think what you are doing is closer to an American IPA without the big citrus (big, lots of last addition hop notes while mixing and matching ingredients), and the recipe looks tasty.

Thank you for your feedback!
Yes, i agree that probably classic isn't appropriate for this recipe.
I take inspiration from the classic style to brew something i like and matches my idea of beer.

 

[andrea93]

Maybe biscuit malt instead of the munich?

I thought about adding some biscuit, but since this is a new recipe i want to formulate it simple to understand what i like and what not.
Thank you

 

[brokebucket]

Sounds like you are pretty shored up on your recipe, so brew on. Personally, I still think that you can get everything you want in that beer with British ingredients, but in the end it's your beer.

 

[andrea93]

Sounds like you are pretty shored up on your recipe, so brew on. Personally, I still think that you can get everything you want in that beer with British ingredients, but in the end it's your beer.

Yes i am pretty shored up, but i will brew it next week so i can change it yet.
So you would replace munich with crystal malt and magnum wirh challenger, right?
After that would you change something else? Hop schedule, malts percentage, ecc?

 

[signpost]

Using crystal malt doesn't automatically add a cloying sweetness. That idea is just sillyness. An English medium crystal would make lots of sense in a small amount for this beer.

 

[andrea93]

Using crystal malt doesn't automatically add a cloying sweetness. That idea is just sillyness. An English medium crystal would make lots of sense in a small amount for this beer.

So you would add another kind of crystal malt and remove munich?

 

[Queequeg]

It depends what you are going for. If you are after an English IPA similar to commercial examples that complies with the BJCP guidelines the I would go with

94% golden promise
3% British caramel malt 60L
3% torrified wheat

Hop modestly with EKG. Bitter with challenger.

Ferment with WLP002

However if you want a traditional EIPA then you need to go more like

97% low color Maris otter
3% torrified wheat
2lb dextrose

Hop heavily with EKG

Ferment with WLP007
Secondary on Oak with Brett.

 

[brokebucket]

My pale ale recipe uses a pound of C77 (medium british crystal) and nobody has ever called it cloying. If I were to make an English IPA, I would do the same thing. Bitter recipes use 8 oz light crystal, 4 oz dark crystal....same thing.

I was looking up cara red profiles yesterday after reading this thread, and it sounds like that can come off pretty sweet though.

Like I stated earlier, I would use all British stuff. The hop schedule looks fine.

 

[JKaranka]

There are a couple of British IPAs that use British Munich malt (seriously, that has been a thing for over a hundred years). I wouldn't use more than 1/2lb of crystal malt. Make sure to keep sulphate high 200+ppm). To be fair, I'd go for either the crystal or the Munich and aim at 5-8srm. I use a lot of Challenger as my main bittering hop (it's half the price of Magnum here) and it does make a good late addition but I'm less impressed by it as a dry hop.

 

[signpost]

So you would add another kind of crystal malt and remove munich?

Yeah, I'd take out some of the Munich and add in a little bit of some english medium crystal. Something like this link: http://www.northernbrewer.com/simpsons-medium-crystal-malt

You could maybe change your percentages to be 10% Munich and 5% medium crystal, or even just 5% of each of them, and be in good shape. The flavor I've noticed from using some of the English crystal is very different from what you expect from other normal crystal malts. It's definitely worth being specific for an English style brew.