English Barleywine Yeast - Please help me decide?

[luckybeagle]

I've been putting off an English Barleywine for at least a year now, which is a shame because it'd be just coming into its prime right now if I hadn't delayed! I get in my own way and want to get it right on the first go since my goal is to limit my consumption of it to a few bombers a year, making it a holiday season treat. My current dilemma is this:

• I have 32 oz of fresh Wyeast 1318 (London Ale III) slurry from a low ABV Oatmeal Stout ready to go. I like the flavor profile and would prefer to use this, but I've heard it tops out around 10% ABV and isn't a great attenuator--potentially leaving it sweeter than it should be.
• The recipe I want to follow calls for Wyeast 1028 (London), but I'm generally not a fan of low ABV British beers, so I'd have to take the time and expense to build a multi-step starter (or find an agreeable beer to brew for the yeast cake)
• I could make life very simple and use Nottingham dry yeast, and call it a day, though I'm mentally equating dry yeast with inferior beers--and I know that's inaccurate/unfair (a bias left over from kit beer days)

Could I tone down the barleywine recipe to +/- 10% ABV, match the BU:GU ratio of the higher gravity recipe, and use the 1318 with potentially good results? Or is it just the wrong yeast for this style?

Is it worth building the 1028 starter over using what I already have? Or is this dry yeast perfectly capable of making an excellent English Barleywine?

Would love some opinions!

 

[RM-MN]

With its higher alcohol tolerance and high attenuation I think that Nottingham is probably the yeast to use for the barleywine. It's cheap enough to use two packs in a big beer too and that means you don't need to do a starter. JMHO

I'd start it pretty cool as it likes to take off and raise the temperature if you don't have a really good temperature control plus it ferments really clean at the low temps and I don't think you want esters in you barleywine. After 3 or 4 days or whenever the fermentation slows, let it warm up to encourage it to attenuate as much as possible.

 

[hottpeper13]

Notty is what I use for most of my big beers. New to me is the Voss Kveik, when fermented low between 78*-86* it's super clean and I've read that it can go as high as 16%. I have an RIS in a barrel that finished at 11%. Just know that either choice with that big of wort will have a very violent fermentation so temp control and a blow off are needed.

 

[ryanm8]

1318 is fine for an English style barleywine. I was in your same dilemma recently. Only yeast I had on hand was 1318 so I decided to use it for my English barleywine. Came out around 10% which is what I was aiming for.

I bet you could get more than 10% out of it if you pitch enough and oxygenate well.

 

[luckybeagle]

1318 is fine for an English style barleywine. I was in your same dilemma recently. Only yeast I had on hand was 1318 so I decided to use it for my English barleywine. Came out around 10% which is what I was aiming for.

I bet you could get more than 10% out of it if you pitch enough and oxygenate well.

Cool, thanks! I'm sure it's too young to really get a good sense of it yet--since you said you brewed it recently--but did you taste any prior to (or since) packaging?

Notty is what I use for most of my big beers. New to me is the Voss Kveik, when fermented low between 78*-86* it's super clean and I've read that it can go as high as 16%. I have an RIS in a barrel that finished at 11%. Just know that either choice with that big of wort will have a very violent fermentation so temp control and a blow off are needed.

This is good to hear. I need to read up on Kveik yeasts for my own knowledge, too.I've been hearing a lot of talk about how speedily they rip through fermentation without many of the off-flavors of rushed fermentations with ale yeasts--and how the beers come together more quickly, but that's the extent of my knowledge so far.

With its higher alcohol tolerance and high attenuation I think that Nottingham is probably the yeast to use for the barleywine. It's cheap enough to use two packs in a big beer too and that means you don't need to do a starter. JMHO

I'd start it pretty cool as it likes to take off and raise the temperature if you don't have a really good temperature control plus it ferments really clean at the low temps and I don't think you want esters in you barleywine. After 3 or 4 days or whenever the fermentation slows, let it warm up to encourage it to attenuate as much as possible.

Good advice here. I may end up doing Nottingham depending on what Ryanm8 has to say about his 1318 Barleywine. Love the idea of taking a break from building a big starter.

 

[ryanm8]

I only tasted the hydrometer sample so far. I plan on trying a bottle this weekend though. It finished quite high (1.107 -> 1.036) but I had a 2 hour boil and 10% crystal malts so I think that may be why. It was not cloying at all in the sample.

White Labs lists English barleywine as a style for 1318 so I wouldn't be afraid to use it unless you are planning on >12% abv.

Cool, thanks! I'm sure it's too young to really get a good sense of it yet--since you said you brewed it recently--but did you taste any prior to (or since) packaging?



This is good to hear. I need to read up on Kveik yeasts for my own knowledge, too.I've been hearing a lot of talk about how speedily they rip through fermentation without many of the off-flavors of rushed fermentations with ale yeasts--and how the beers come together more quickly, but that's the extent of my knowledge so far.


Good advice here. I may end up doing Nottingham depending on what Ryanm8 has to say about his 1318 Barleywine. Love the idea of taking a break from building a big starter.

 

[Oldskewl]

I recently brewed my first English Barleywine about 5 months ago. It was approx 12%. I ended up using 2 packs of Nottingham and it did a fine job. I have always used liquid yeast but have used dry in my last few beers and I love the convenience of it. No starter, no extra planning for a starter, no decanting, no extra volume concerns,etc. I did try the New England version from Lallemand recently and I can’t say it has wowed me. But I can’t say that the few beers I brewed with dry yeast were inferior in any way. I don't feel you want much yeast character for a Barleywine.

 

[couchsending]

Just blend in some Notty with the 1318. You’ll probably get the 1318 flavor profile with a bit more attenuation and slightly higher ABV tolerance. 1318 does tend to leave everything a bit sweeter just due to it’s profile. Just up the IBUs a bit to compensate.

 

[Steveruch]

The alcohol percentage in the yeast description is mostly a guideline to compare it to other yeast strains. Your actual results will depend a lot on the wort composition.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Or is it just the wrong yeast for this style?

You're looking at it the wrong way. You don't have the "right" yeast for a barley wine because a British brewery would never have a specific yeast for a barley wine. The "right" yeast is just "your house yeast", it's an expression of your house style rather than trying to clone some external idea of what "a barley wine" should be.

If your house yeast is alcohol sensitive, then your house barley wine is a bit lower in alcohol, it's part of your house style. If you're in Oregon and perhaps have a house rule that you use some Willamette in every beer, then Willamette goes into your barley wine regardless of what some guidelines might say, it's part of your house style.

TLDR - stop overthinking it, just use your local ingredients and adapt the recipe accordingly.

 

[ryanm8]

I tried the barleywine yesterday and 1318 did the job well. Not sure how much character is coming from the yeast, but it has a nice dark cherry / stone fruit flavor. Nicely balanced. It even carbonated fine after 2 weeks.