English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

BrewSwag 728
Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Speaking of Milds, I have one (naturally) carbing up in the keg atm, will go in the kegerator for a bit of conditioning this friday and likely take a first pint sometime late next week.
But from just the taste from my gravity samples and sample when kegging, I think I need to revise my recipe a little.
I think something like MO as base
10% homemade invert #3
6% Crystal 50)50 mix of 150/240 ebc
5 % Crisp Amber
3% UK chocolate malt
OG 1.036

90 min boil, 60 min addition for 20 IBU and about 0.7g/L of Fuggle thrown in just before I start chilling.
Looking for a northern style mild like black cat, theakston and the like, a little subtle caramel/toffee, not too sweet and a little light roast.
 
Last edited:
kmarkstevens said:
@Northern_Brewer @Derp If either of you come to Seattle and don't let me shout you a mild from Machine House, then I'm going to be seriously cheesed off.

Methinks the Machine House Mild is the dog's bollocks, but I've never visited the UK and have nothing to judge it against. Would welcome a very experienced mild drinker from the home country's view.
Click to expand...

That's kind, although I'm far from a mild expert, I'm from the other side of the dark/pale border that roughly runs between the Mersey and Trent watersheds. I've had a few at festivals but seldom in pubs. Still, Machine House looks fun, it's impressive if they can keep all those lines on with a sensible turnover.

In other news, UK hop growers are warning of price rises :
https://www.beerguild.co.uk/news/british-hop-inflation-2022/
Between 2016-2021 the aggregate wage rate increase was 37%, although for most growers the figure was higher, as both labour availability and quality have declined as a consequence of the UK’s departure from the European Union. For 2022 growers are faced with:
  • a minimum 15% increase in wage costs
  • approaching 100% increase in fuel costs
  • significant increases in the cost of fertilisers, spray chemicals, string and other inputs
Maltsters will be facing similar problems. Energy costs are even more of a problem on the Continent.
 
Northern_Brewer said:
That's kind, although I'm far from a mild expert, I'm from the other side of the dark/pale border that roughly runs between the Mersey and Trent watersheds. I've had a few at festivals but seldom in pubs. Still, Machine House looks fun, it's impressive if they can keep all those lines on with a sensible turnover.

In other news, UK hop growers are warning of price rises :
https://www.beerguild.co.uk/news/british-hop-inflation-2022/
Between 2016-2021 the aggregate wage rate increase was 37%, although for most growers the figure was higher, as both labour availability and quality have declined as a consequence of the UK’s departure from the European Union. For 2022 growers are faced with:
  • a minimum 15% increase in wage costs
  • approaching 100% increase in fuel costs
  • significant increases in the cost of fertilisers, spray chemicals, string and other inputs
Maltsters will be facing similar problems. Energy costs are even more of a problem on the Continent.
Click to expand...
If costs are going up across the board, for everyone, give everyone a decent pay rise to cover it. Simple. Economics isn't that complicated. Unless shareholder value and greed are driving up costs as well.
 
McMullan said:
If costs are going up across the board, for everyone, give everyone a decent pay rise to cover it. Simple. Economics isn't that complicated. Unless shareholder value and greed are driving up costs as well.
Click to expand...
 

Attachments

  • IMG-20220528-WA0009.jpg
    IMG-20220528-WA0009.jpg
    132.8 KB · Views: 0
Northern_Brewer said:
Between 2016-2021 the aggregate wage rate increase was 37%, although for most growers the figure was higher, as both labour availability and quality have declined as a consequence of the UK’s departure from the European Union.
Click to expand...
McMullan said:
If costs are going up across the board, for everyone, give everyone a decent pay rise to cover it. Simple. Economics isn't that complicated. Unless shareholder value and greed are driving up costs as well.
Click to expand...

This isn't really the place for this discussion as it gets complicated once you start talking about net pay rates and effective inflation for those around min wage, but it's worth noting that March RPI was 15.4% between 2016-21 and CPI was about 10% in the same timeframe.

The argument the hopgrowers are making is that they did their bit during the pandemic by not enforcing contracts that could have forced their customers to take twice the hops they did, now they're asking their customers to not enforce fixed-price contracts in the face of unprecendented rises in energy costs in particular, which are non-trivial if you're drying hops.

I already know of one farmer who has got out of hops, and they won't be the last.
 
The small farms always suffer disproportionately. The big farms will ride it out, sit back and enjoy watching competition being purged from the market. Only way to stop that is to give everyone a pay rise so they can afford to pay the small guys more.
 
Erik the Anglophile said:
But what do you guys think about the dark mild grain bill? Solving world's issues aside.
Click to expand...
I'd just use crystal 150 and not bother with the 240, although you're not adding much. Not sure about the amber. Maybe reserve the amber for a more robust ale or use less. For me, Mild recipes are better the simpler they are, grist wise. This holds true for most styles, imo. I'd try to use no more than 3 types of grain. If a Mild is a mild (not mature) ale consumed fresh, within a week or two of being brewed, then a simple recipe is going to work better. I've followed some overly complicated 'Mild' recipes in the past and they took several weeks to reach a drinkable stage.
 
McMullan said:
I'd just use crystal 150 and not bother with the 240, although you're not adding much. Not sure about the amber. Maybe reserve the amber for a more robust ale or use less. For me, Mild recipes are better the simpler they are, grist wise. This holds true for most styles, imo. I'd try to use no more than 3 types of grain. If a Mild is a mild (not mature) ale consumed fresh, within a week or two of being brewed, then a simple recipe is going to work better. I've followed some overly complicated 'Mild' recipes in the past and they took several weeks to reach a drinkable stage.
Click to expand...

I know this is a common advice but... how could the number of different grains employed impact the required maturation time in this way?
I generally prefer recipes that use just a few grains, mostly because that makes it easier to adapt them to your own palate, but I don't see how the mere number of them would dictate the beer should take longer to mature.

And please refrain from using the vague term "muddled" in your reply :p
 
monkeymath said:
I know this is a common advice but... how could the number of different grains employed impact the required maturation time in this way?
I generally prefer recipes that use just a few grains, mostly because that makes it easier to adapt them to your own palate, but I don't see how the mere number of them would dictate the beer should take longer to mature.

And please refrain from using the vague term "muddled" in your reply :p
Click to expand...
Beer's quite a simple affair. Complexity is subtle. At least it's best served that way. When I read recipes these days - where complexity of the recipe seems to be the aim more than anything else - several different types of grain on top of the base malt and a several hop varieties with two dozen additions - I wonder if the brewer knows what beer is. Base malts alone are often enough, if the brewer's done enough to produce a balanced beer.
 
McMullan said:
Beer's quite a simple affair. Complexity is subtle. At least it's best served that way. When I read recipes these days - where complexity of the recipe seems to be the aim more than anything else - several different types of grain on top of the base malt and a several hop varieties with two dozen additions - I wonder if the brewer knows what beer is. Base malts alone are often enough, if the brewer's done enough to produce a balanced beer.
Click to expand...

I totally agree with this statement. I just don't see how or why overcomplicated recipes would yield beers that require longer maturation times.
 
monkeymath said:
I totally agree with this statement. I just don't see how or why overcomplicated recipes would yield beers that require longer maturation times.
Click to expand...
The very first beer I ever made was a cream ale. It was a very basic recipe and I bottled the first half plain. Then I added a small about of bourbon vanilla extract (from a commercial chocolate maker) to the remaining half and bottled that. Everyone raved over the plain bottles but it took 30 days before the vanilla bottles tasted right at all.

Since then, I have tried all kinds of additives to all kinds of beers. Most of them are fine 'fresh' but every once in a while I hit a combo that requires aging to meld. You might stumble on the right combination of ingredients that doesn't need aging but I think fewer ingredients improves those chances.
 
monkeymath said:
I totally agree with this statement. I just don't see how or why overcomplicated recipes would yield beers that require longer maturation times.
Click to expand...
I find it takes longer for things to blend together to produce a nice balanced beer, if they ever do. I don't mind getting adventurous with a big porter, but generally I don't feel it adds anything of much to overcomplicate things.
 
bleme said:
I happen to have a Dark Mild fermenting today but it has 4 grains because I didn't have quite enough MO and had to sub a pound of Crisp Pale. ;)
Click to expand...
I'm sure it's going to be just fine. I like a 50:50 mix of MO and Halcyon pale malt, but haven't been able to get any Halcyon for years.
 
McMullan said:
I'm sure it's going to be just fine. I like a 50:50 mix of MO and Halcyon pale malt, but haven't been able to get any Halcyon for years.
Click to expand...
Halcyon's not been on the Recommended List for 20-odd years, so it won't be grown unless for a specific contract.
 
Is that the shifty double-glazing salesman on YouTube who claims to be a master brewer and recommends 'thawing frozen hops in the fridge for a few days before dry hopping'? Personally, I'm totally not interested in what notorious con artists claim. On any subject. I have zero time for con artists whose brazen ignorance and blatant lack of genuine knowledge tend to send naive home brewers down dead-end rabbit holes. He's a menace, frankly.
 
McMullan said:
Is that the shifty double-glazing salesman on YouTube who claims to be a master brewer and recommends 'thawing frozen hops in the fridge for a few days before dry hopping'? Personally, I'm totally not interested in what notorious con artists claim. On any subject. I have zero time for con artists whose brazen ignorance and blatant lack of genuine knowledge tend to send naive home brewers down dead-end rabbit holes. He's a menace, frankly.
Click to expand...
Was that about David Heath? Apologies for posting, I'm new to the forum and didn't realise.
 
BTW, Ron Pattinson is going to be in the Seattle area the end of July. He will be at Machine House and at Foggy Bottom, and not sure where else. Foggy Bottom has tickets on sale, but I'm waiting for Machine House to announce their gig.
 
Cooked up a new batch of #3 last night, as my previous batches didn't come out allright, and a large portion of the sugar had formed a hard crystalline mass at the bottom.
Last time I just let it reach about 85c, and that seems not really enough to reach full inversion and dissolving of the sugar.
This time I added 0.5ml of 80%lactic to 550ml of water, let it reach boil, added about 1kg sugar and 1tsp citric acid, let it heat while gently stirring until the solution cleared, then some more sugar and a dash of honey as per the tip someone gave earlier in this thread, for a total of 1500g of sugar. Let it simmer to just over 110c this time so hopefully I got the sugar completely dissolved and inverted...
Used a 90/10 mix of Billingtons light/dark muscovado.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20220619_072110.jpg
    IMG_20220619_072110.jpg
    4.4 MB · Views: 0
  • IMG_20220618_204125.jpg
    IMG_20220618_204125.jpg
    5 MB · Views: 0
I like to keep it simple:

11 lbs MO for an og of 1.065 to 1.068
48 IBU's
10 oz Muntons C60 (varies by OG)
1/4 lb Victory
1 lb Cane Sugar
Straight EKG all pellets
@ 5.9 Alpha...
.35 oz EKG for 60 mins
2.25 EKG 20 mins prior
2.25 EKG 10 mins prior

Single Infusion at 151F.

Don't bother with dry-hopping, it doesn't last (with EKG) and gets lost with the earlier additions. Let the 20 and 10 minute additions carry it. Those WILL last.
 
Last edited:
I've seen in many of Ron's recipes he has published in his books and blog, that a common theme in British brewing seem to have been 30 min hop additions.
So I have decided to start experimenting a little with adding hops at 30 min left, my next bitter I think I will split my 1g/L hopstand between the stand and 30 min.
I googled around a bit and some guy said he found it to give a deeper hop flavour, and that Bramling X gave the most black currant when boiled for 30.
 
Erik the Anglophile said:
I've seen in many of Ron's recipes he has published in his books and blog, that a common theme in British brewing seem to have been 30 min hop additions.
So I have decided to start experimenting a little with adding hops at 30 min left, my next bitter I think I will split my 1g/L hopstand between the stand and 30 min.
I googled around a bit and some guy said he found it to give a deeper hop flavour, and that Bramling X gave the most black currant when boiled for 30.
Click to expand...

Those 30 minute additions also popped up when I was looking into Czech lagers... they'd often even forego any late additions and still seem to have some character from the hops (although probably a different kind). There must be something to it, I guess. Brulosophy has done two experiments on it, and both came out significant.

I have another question regarding British beers in general: is there any place for non-barley grains besides oats in oatmeal stout or a bit of torrefied wheat for head retention?
Crisp (the maltster) has published a recipe named "London Porter" London Porter Recipe | Crisp Best Ale Base Malt | Crisp British Malt, which features a bit of rye malt. I guess that's not very traditional? Are "modern" brewers incorporating other grains? (Incidentally, the recipe is actually quite similar to a Rye Porter I made two years ago, which happened to be one of my favourite beers ever.)
 
monkeymath said:
Those 30 minute additions also popped up when I was looking into Czech lagers... they'd often even forego any late additions and still seem to have some character from the hops (although probably a different kind). There must be something to it, I guess. Brulosophy has done two experiments on it, and both came out significant.

I have another question regarding British beers in general: is there any place for non-barley grains besides oats in oatmeal stout or a bit of torrefied wheat for head retention?
Crisp (the maltster) has published a recipe named "London Porter" London Porter Recipe | Crisp Best Ale Base Malt | Crisp British Malt, which features a bit of rye malt. I guess that's not very traditional? Are "modern" brewers incorporating other grains? (Incidentally, the recipe is actually quite similar to a Rye Porter I made two years ago, which happened to be one of my favourite beers ever.)
Click to expand...
Wheat is pretty traditional, so is corn. But corn doesn't improve head retention, neither do oats.

I'll check the brulosophy articles, thanks!
 
Erik the Anglophile said:
I've seen in many of Ron's recipes he has published in his books and blog, that a common theme in British brewing seem to have been 30 min hop additions.
So I have decided to start experimenting a little with adding hops at 30 min left, my next bitter I think I will split my 1g/L hopstand between the stand and 30 min.
I googled around a bit and some guy said he found it to give a deeper hop flavour, and that Bramling X gave the most black currant when boiled for 30.
Click to expand...
That's interesting. My recent bitter has a shortened boil, 30 minutes with 66% of the ibus as a 30 minute addition and 33% as a ten minute addition. Hope this works.
 
Flaked maize often finds its way into my bitters. I find it a fairly neutral gravity booster that lightens things a tad, even when mashing high, which works very well me. I find it helps balance things. Generally, there's more than enough variety in English malted barley, so that any English style is perfectly fine with 100% barley.
 
Flaked maize is a frequent addition in my paler beers. It was a common ingredient in British beers for reasons of cost, more extract for less cost than from malted barley, and lower nitrogen content for clearer beer. I frequently use Crownfield Corn Flakes from Lidl, which from the packet are 96% corn, barley malt extract and salt. The salt content might be too high for some brewers, but I can't taste it.

Cheaper, lower grade, higher protein malts, often sold as mild ale malt, mashed with 10% flaked corn can be capable of producing a beer of equally clarity to that made from 100% high grade, low protein malted barley. I do find maize beneficial in pale beers.
 
I found that maize will be balanced with a higher IBU.

I have done side by side brews for comparison. Corn adds some sweetness that off sets higher bittering. Whereas the experiment with corn was balanced, the same IBU level without the corn was overly harsh.
 

Similar threads

I
What should I brew next?
Replies
15
Views
1K
landmissle
L
HM-2
Strong Bitter "Hogwash" - Prize Ale (Strong Bitter / English Pale Ale)
Replies
7
Views
2K
Cheshire Cat
Cheshire Cat
P
What happened to IPA?
2
Replies
49
Views
4K
Clint Yeastwood
Clint Yeastwood
J
Need ideas for brewing an experimental beer
Replies
30
Views
2K
troxerX
troxerX
EGorsel
My first beerbrew recipe - tips and tricks?
Replies
12
Views
1K
JaxBrewerSahti
JaxBrewerSahti
Yakima 300

Latest posts

Back
Top