English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[tracer bullet]

So, if anyone cares, and hopefully I'm not just spreading dumb rumors. I was at Midwest Supplies this morning (Northern Brewer), they're my LHBS. Couldn't find First Gold in the frig, so I asked. They were on a table, because they were no longer going to be carried. I got the pack for free, and with a recommendation to be cautious with them because they were pretty old and had been sitting out a while. I will probably crush them up in my fingers and if they smell good consider a late addition. I don't guess a hop plant necessarily disappears, but if anyone cares they might start to get more difficult to find if this is any indication. Maybe it was simply a sales decision (don't really sell them = stop carrying them).

Also considering using EKG throughout and then either a pinch of dried sweet orange peels or Mandarina Bavaria at flame-out, both of which I have on hand, to see if I can add a hint of orange. TBD. I know that's nowhere near authentic so I probably shouldn't admit it here.

 

[shoreman]

Came across this photo from my last Bitter I brewed and split the batch between a 2.5 gallon Cubitainer and a 2.5 gallon torpedo keg - both naturally carbonated. Was going to update, here it is- this photo is a pour from the torpedo.

I serve by gravity with Cubitainer and use a mini regulator to just push beer out of the torpedo keg. About 1 cartridge per keg is plenty to push the beer out.

I’ll be putting these beers in the torpedo moving forward. Cubitainer is great if you were drinking it all in one session with a group, but I end up dumping too much beer and with the pandemic…welp.

Anyways, the natural carbonation/mini regulator with a blanket of Co2 on top of the beer seems most practical, at least for me. I did have a whole beer engine setup as well with the Cubitainer- great pours, but a lot of setup, not a lot of shelf life.

Cubitainer could be a viable option for someone looking to keg for $10-20, but make sure you drink it quickly or serve all at once.

 

[kmarkstevens]

@tracer bullet Appreciate the head's up on First Gold. I like First Gold and it always seems to be on clearance somewhere for some reason. I have locked on First Gold being my bittering hop for English ales, and then finish with EKG or Fuggles or First Gold. It's on close out for less than $3 for 8oz. Gonna have to get a pound or two

 

[Hanglow]

I planted a rhizome of first gold in the autumn, looking forward to a more successful harvest from that than my hallertau last year. Always liked using it in bitters

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I have drank a few bottles of Shepherd Neames Double Stout lately, really nice beer.
This has lead me to think of ways to tweak my current Oatmeal Stout, it's ok but not exactly what I am looking for, with said beer as inspiration. I am not looking for a clone but something modeled in the same vein.
The SN stout lists "glucose syrup" in the ingredients, wich I assume is some cane invert. I don't have torrefied barley but T.wheat is likely just as good.

MO as base
8% black malt
4% chocolate malt
5% each of oats and t.wheat
8% invert #3 in the boil

90 min boil with enough Challenger at 60 min to reach 30 IBU
OG 1.050 abv likely just north of 5% after conditioning.
Not sure about mash regimen, the yeast I use can be convinced to attenuate to the mid 70's in bitters with a little sugar and a 66c/60 min mash, so I am thinking 66c/75 min considering the amount of dark grain.
Will use Graham Wheelers stout profile for the water.
Also thinking of a brown stout version of it, replacing the chocolate with brown malt, but what ratios would be appropriate? Something like 15/5% Brown/Black malt?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

The SN stout lists "glucose syrup" in the ingredients, wich I assume is some cane invert.

Also known as "liquid glucose". It's hydrolysed starch, typically from wheat or maize (the maize version is also known as corn syrup), that has no flavour of its own - see What is glucose syrup and how is it used? - Ragus

You can get it in supermarkets here, but typically in small quantities for baking so it's really expensive. You can get it from wholesalers but it's still pretty expensive, like £5/kg (€6/US$7) - at home you're probably better off just making some invert with minimal cooking. And apparently there's a shortage at the moment, so Ragus is very keen for everyone to replace it with partial invert : Glucose syrup UK shortages: how to overcome the supply deficit | Ragus

I don't have torrefied barley but T.wheat is likely just as good.

Torrefied barley is one of those underrated ingredients that should probably be used more.

 

[schmurf]

You can get glucose syrup in Swedish supermarket as well, look for glykossirap from Dansukker. About the same price as mentioned above. I've never used it in brewing though.

 

[McMullan]

I have drank a few bottles of Shepherd Neames Double Stout lately, really nice beer.
This has lead me to think of ways to tweak my current Oatmeal Stout, it's ok but not exactly what I am looking for, with said beer as inspiration. I am not looking for a clone but something modeled in the same vein.
The SN stout lists "glucose syrup" in the ingredients, wich I assume is some cane invert. I don't have torrefied barley but T.wheat is likely just as good.

MO as base
8% black malt
4% chocolate malt
5% each of oats and t.wheat
8% invert #3 in the boil

90 min boil with enough Challenger at 60 min to reach 30 IBU
OG 1.050 abv likely just north of 5% after conditioning.
Not sure about mash regimen, the yeast I use can be convinced to attenuate to the mid 70's in bitters with a little sugar and a 66c/60 min mash, so I am thinking 66c/75 min considering the amount of dark grain.
Will use Graham Wheelers stout profile for the water.
Also thinking of a brown stout version of it, replacing the chocolate with brown malt, but what ratios would be appropriate? Something like 15/5% Brown/Black malt?

Based on what @Northern_Brewer posted I think you could get away with adding ‘priming sugar’ (glucose/dextrose). I‘d opt for flaked barley as a substitute for torrified barley, rather than torrified wheat. The brown version is likely better, IMO, as I’m not a fan of too much black malt.

 

[cire]

If you can get raw barley and have a microwave oven, torrified barley can be made at home. I'm advised a popcorn maker makes it better and faster. It is used in lots of my brews and believe it makes a nicer beer than torrified wheat. My last 20 kg bag of barley cost about 7 Euro.

Wash the barley in cool clean water, then let it soak in fresh water for half an hour before draining as much free water as practical. Take a handful at a time, spreading it evenly on the turntable, preferably not more than 2 corns deep. Set the oven to 4 minutes and listen to the corns pop, which occur with standard distribution. Note when the peak has passed and conversion slows to stop the oven. This will be the time to set the oven for future loads.

This process requires good housekeeping to avoid mess and hot popped barley should not be stored to cool in plastic, but you only have to smell a handful of newly processed barley to be convinced of its potential value in beer.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

The invert is because I have a bunch at home, I know historically many stouts have used dark invert, and I figured the flavour it leaves likely would go well in this brew.
I will definitely get some torrefied barley though, I see most recipes call for it but figured wheat would work aswell but I might have ti get some barley instead vfor My stouts.

 

[Miraculix]

If you can get raw barley and have a microwave oven, torrified barley can be made at home. I'm advised a popcorn maker makes it better and faster. It is used in lots of my brews and believe it makes a nicer beer than torrified wheat. My last 20 kg bag of barley cost about 7 Euro.

Wash the barley in cool clean water, then let it soak in fresh water for half an hour before draining as much free water as practical. Take a handful at a time, spreading it evenly on the turntable, preferably not more than 2 corns deep. Set the oven to 4 minutes and listen to the corns pop, which occur with standard distribution. Note when the peak has passed and conversion slows to stop the oven. This will be the time to set the oven for future loads.

This process requires good housekeeping to avoid mess and hot popped barley should not be stored to cool in plastic, but you only have to smell a handful of newly processed barley to be convinced of its potential value in beer.

There it is again....... New thing to make at home

have you tried using a normal frying pan (wihtout oil of course)? I do not own a pop corn maker.

 

[McMullan]

I’m adding some raw barley to my next grain order

The invert is because I have a bunch at home, I know historically many stouts have used dark invert, and I figured the flavour it leaves likely would go well in this brew.
I will definitely get some torrefied barley though, I see most recipes call for it but figured wheat would work aswell but I might have ti get some barley instead vfor My stouts.

Humlegarden do a Crisp flaked torrefied barley. I’m not sure, but it sounds nice.

 

[cire]

No, I've not. It works as described and it was another who advised me it was better with a popcorn machine. The barley I use is almost certainly a lower grade than is normally used for brewing, but it works.

I mill mine at a wide gap.

 

[DBhomebrew]

There it is again....... New thing to make at home

have you tried using a normal frying pan (wihtout oil of course)? I do not own a pop corn maker.

I used to do a lot of campfire popcorn. Keep it moving. Shake, shake, shake.

 

[Miraculix]

I guess in the pan there will be some additional flavour coumpounds being generated by kind of roasting the barley a bit. I make Tsampa some times, that surely gets out of the pan really nutty, that is certainly a flavour that I can imagine being benefitial for beer and especially bitter.

 

[cire]

Having done it one way, I have no expectations, for or against, any methods. I'd certainly advise making some by whatever method you believe will work, by heating retained water to gelatinise and rupture the corn.

A picture showing mine after microwaving in the Pyrex measuring jug is shown in this post, with the odd roasted corn if you look closely. In the foreground is the cleaned and lightly soaked barley. The cream coloured block at the back is #1 Ragus.

I believe that torrified barley produces extra body that more than compensates any thinning invert sugar might be imagined to produce.

 

[Miraculix]

Having done it one way, I have no expectations, for or against, any methods. I'd certainly advise making some by whatever method you believe will work, by heating retained water to gelatinise and rupture the corn.

A picture showing mine after microwaving in the Pyrex measuring jug is shown in this post, with the odd roasted corn if you look closely. In the foreground is the cleaned and lightly soaked barley. The cream coloured block at the back is #1 Ragus.

I believe that torrified barley produces extra body that more than compensates any thinning invert sugar might be imagined to produce.

That looks good! Do you think milling the torrifed barley is essential? I don't have a mill and the kernels are already cracked.

 

[cire]

No it isn't, but think milling enables greater extraction.

I have no proof and won't spend any time to prove, or otherwise, my beliefs, but also I always mash for 90 minutes (sometimes more) whenever the recipe includes more than 5% unmalted adjunct. I don't mash-out, but sparge for as long as it takes to get at least 90% of maximum predicted extract. That's how many breweries did it in the past when I think better beer was made.

 

[marc1]

Having done it one way, I have no expectations, for or against, any methods. I'd certainly advise making some by whatever method you believe will work, by heating retained water to gelatinise and rupture the corn.

A picture showing mine after microwaving in the Pyrex measuring jug is shown in this post, with the odd roasted corn if you look closely. In the foreground is the cleaned and lightly soaked barley. The cream coloured block at the back is #1 Ragus.

I believe that torrified barley produces extra body that more than compensates any thinning invert sugar might be imagined to produce.

So microwaving worked, too? Does it just not give it as much roasted flavor as a popcorn maker?

 

[InspectorJon]

I don't have a mill

A food processor works OK in a pinch for a small amount of grain if you have one of those.

 

[McMullan]

So microwaving worked, too? Does it just not give it as much roasted flavor as a popcorn maker?

Is 'torrefied' 'roasted'? Torrefied wheat has never struck me as 'roasted'.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

But how bout that recipe? How does it look?
And regarding the torrefied wheat vs barley, I have an unopened bag of wheat and will likely use it up, including in this stout. I have used wheat before but might try subbing it with barley when I run out to see if the difference is notable/better enough to warrant a change.

 

[cire]

I don't know what barley from a popcorn maker's is like, so cannot really say. What does happen with the method I use, depending upon how well I load the oven, is that some corns clump together and burn rather than pop. If you can enlarge my picture above you will see the odd browned corn and some that have not popped.

As for the recipe, brew it and see. The amount of Black Malt surprises me, but that's just my taste.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Maybe I should cut black the black to 6%, I just Imagined it would not be "too much" since that amount of Roast barley in a stout wouldn't be anything extraordinary.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Eh what the heck, I brew the recipe as is. No one remembers a coward.

 

[McMullan]

For the ultimate experience I'd say pull it (or any other traditional English ale) through a beer engine. As it happens, I have 2 Angrams for sale, not far from your neck of the woods, @Erik the Anglophile.

Edit: One's in exceptional condition, being reconditioned by Angram, the other I reconditioned myself. Both excellent. Only selling because my caskerator (with a new engine) is coming online.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Hit me up in the DMs m'dude.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

And if you by " my neck of the woods" mean hillbilly country in far north of Sweden I'm in.

 

[McMullan]

And if you by " my neck of the woods" mean hillbilly country in far north of Sweden I'm in.

I'm in Norway, mate. As long as the border remains open, I could probably post within Sweden, too.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Send me some pics etc, might be interested, I am gonna build a kegerator and being able to serve one keg through handpull would be fun. Ofc the other kegs will be primed and conditioned and kept at about 11c in the kegerator for a little faux cask feel.

 

[McMullan]

Send me some pics etc, might be interested, I am gonna build a kegerator and being able to serve one keg through handpull would be fun. Ofc the other kegs will be primed and conditioned and kept at about 11c in the kegerator for a little faux cask feel.

I'll PM some pics tomorrow

 

[marc1]

Is 'torrefied' 'roasted'? Torrefied wheat has never struck me as 'roasted'.

Roasted isn't the right word. I was trying to convey that food cooked in a microwave often comes out different than food cooked on a hot surface.

 

[Miraculix]

A food processor works OK in a pinch for a small amount of grain if you have one of those.

Don't have that either

 

[cire]

Don't have that either

A rolling pin with the torrified grains in a plastic bag is good enough, but they can be mashed without being milled.

I mill Flaked Maize too.

 

[ba-brewer]

A rolling pin with the torrified grains in a plastic bag is good enough, but they can be mashed without being milled.

I mill Flaked Maize too.

And if you don't have a rolling pin a beer or wine bottle will work.

A hammer works on flaked maize.

 

[DuncB]

Not another piece of kit to buy, saw a popcorn maker in second hand shop yesterday. Didn't know it was essential kit.

 

[InspectorJon]

My brother uses a popcorn maker to roast coffee, should work for grain also I guess. He uses an air popper something like this:

or are we talking about a machine like this:

 

[schmurf]

Send me some pics etc, might be interested, I am gonna build a kegerator and being able to serve one keg through handpull would be fun. Ofc the other kegs will be primed and conditioned and kept at about 11c in the kegerator for a little faux cask feel.

You probably won't regret getting one. It's one of the best equipment I've ever purchased and wouldn't want to be without!

 

[cire]

Not another piece of kit to buy, saw a popcorn maker in second hand shop yesterday. Didn't know it was essential kit.

Please don't blame me for this. Some time ago I gave a brewing friend some barley and suggest he tried treating it in a microwave as described above. He quickly replied that he had found it easier using his popcorn machine and I had no reason to dispute his findings.

@InspectorJon, I think he used a small domestic type he had bought for his children, but perhaps before any go too far, it would be nice if someone with such a machine might be able to test and confirm or otherwise what results might be obtained. I would think uncracked pale malted barley would likely pop similar to untreated barley.

 

[DuncB]

@cire
Just a leg pull. But I expect that simple kitchen popcorn maker was only a few dollars. I expect some ingenious work with a hot air paint stripper gun would do the job as well.