English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[deere322]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/english-ales-whats-your-favorite-recipe.472464/page-36

Post #1429 is a pic of a 1954 Tennant's Barley Wine with all pale colored malts, flaked maize and around 2.75 lbs of invert 1.

This gives you an idea of the color it adds

 

[Miraculix]

View attachment 390558
Gold Label
2 months after kegging yields a clear brew.
Aroma of citrusy fruit, jammy orange marmalade, thick malt backbone melded with booze.
Taste has mellowed, smooth malt, bitter throughout,
Thick orange marmalade, nice carb on the tongue and finishes dry with no sweetness.
Still lip smacking fruity bitterness.

2.5 gal Keg is almost gone.

Would you mind ellaborating a bit on the recipe? Espacially the yeast, OG, FG and actually also everything else is of interest to me. I was thinking about brewing something big and not dark. I think it might be a barley wine. A simple one, maybe a hint of crystal.

 

[deere322]

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2016/11/lets-brew-1954-tennants-gold-label.html
It was an awesome beer!

I'm Skypilot in the comments below

I used a massive slurry s04.

 

[Miraculix]

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2016/11/lets-brew-1954-tennants-gold-label.html
It was an awesome beer!

I'm Skypilot in the comments below

I used a massive slurry s04.

Nice, thanks! I was also wondering if lyle's would be a good substitute for the invert syrup. Rons comment on the brett got me thinking.... maybe extended aging, some oak and brett? I got some wild brett in my fridge which should work well, cought it here with one of my raw ale experiments. It is mixed with Nottingham, but that shouldn't be a problem. Speaking of marmelade, I though about using the fullers strain for flavour in combination with something with a higher attenuation, like Nottingham. This surely will be a long term project, if I start it.

 

[deere322]

Nice, thanks! I was also wondering if lyle's would be a good substitute for the invert syrup. Rons comment on the brett got me thinking.... maybe extended aging, some oak and brett? I got some wild brett in my fridge which should work well, cought it here with one of my raw ale experiments. It is mixed with Nottingham, but that shouldn't be a problem. Speaking of marmelade, I though about using the fullers strain for flavour in combination with something with a higher attenuation, like Nottingham. This surely will be a long term project, if I start it.

Lyle's would work and I've used it many times with the dilution method and Golden Barrel Molasses. See the Unholymess site.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/attachments/imageuploadedbyhome-brew1479335784-827649-jpg.377258/
But for me, Lyle's adds a bit too much toffee flavor for my liking. I highly suggest homemade invert #1 using turbinado sugar(sugar in the raw) in this recipe.

 

[Miraculix]

Lyle's would work and I've used it many times with the dilution method and Golden Barrel Molasses. See the Unholymess site.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/attachments/imageuploadedbyhome-brew1479335784-827649-jpg.377258/
But for me, Lyle's adds a bit too much toffee flavor for my liking. I highly suggest homemade invert #1 using turbinado sugar(sugar in the raw) in this recipe.

Ok, wanted to try out this invert sugar selfmade thing anyway. This will end up with quite a big abv. Doesn't brett die at medium to high abv meaning isn't it more alcohol intolerant than the "normal" ale yeast? I guess, as mine is a wild one anyway, theres only one way to find out....

 

[Northern_Brewer]

It never ceases to amaze me that Gold Label still exists, Sainsbury's still have it as do Morrisons and ASDA. People have had some fun reviewing it. I assume that both it and Mackeson will disappear as and when InBev get their act together. I feel I ought to try some before it disappears.

The Whitbread version of the 1970s went rather heavier on sugar syrup rather than maize, and used lager malt rather than pale. Ron's posted extensively on the history.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I have a handpump, its an Angram clip on. It has the long swan neck, which I understand is the kind used in the north. It has a green sparkler, I think that is 1 mm holes?

Unfortunately you can't always rely on the colour to match to the hole size, but yes usually the green ones are the biggest holes - "southern sparklers". It's quite an art matching sparklers to the style and condition of a beer.

Anybody know a way to hook up a 5L mini keg to a handpump? Even 5L is (14) 12oz beers or 10.5 pints. This is the problem you run into with real ale. You have to be able to finish it fairly quickly.

Do you mean a variation on the commercial minikegs, or the more "homebrewy" ones? Either way, I'm sure if you poke around the UK homebrew sites you'll find someone who's adapted them somehow, it's fairly rudimentary from a plumbing point of view but not something I've done myself.

There's a good reason why even in the UK it's fairly rare for homebrewers to do the full cask-conditioning thing! And even when we do, it tends to be on gravity rather than through a handpull. But bottling is probably more common than in the US.

There is a business not far from me here who sells handpumps and casks and supplies. I just bought a pump clip you can make and insert your own label into.

One option that works quite well is to paint a clip with blackboard paint, and then you just write on the "blackboard".

 

[Fredrik Lerigon]

I have been going through most of the posts but I might have missed it, I tried a Fullers IPA (not esb) when I was traveling and at the time I found it fantastic. I could sens a lot of EKG in it and fairly heavy malty flavor (for those cold days in front of the fire). Has anybody heard of a recipe for it or tried it and could give some hints on how to get close?
Fredrik

 

[Miraculix]

I have been going through most of the posts but I might have missed it, I tried a Fullers IPA (not esb) when I was traveling and at the time I found it fantastic. I could sens a lot of EKG in it and fairly heavy malty flavor (for those cold days in front of the fire). Has anybody heard of a recipe for it or tried it and could give some hints on how to get close?
Fredrik

Never had it, was it as sweet as London pride?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Never had it, was it as sweet as London pride?

AIUI Fulller's IPA is just the export name for (or at least a close cousin of) the beer that the UK knows as Bengal Lancer. I've not had it for some time, but from memory it's a pretty typical English IPA - the website lists the grist as crystal and pale, and the hops as 47IBU of Fuggles and Goldings, ABV is 5% in cask and 5.3% in bottle.

I suspect if you poke around you'll find something for Bengal Lancer on British homebrew forums.

Ah - here we go, an explanation of how IPA relates to Lancer : http://thebeerboy.blogspot.com/2010/03/fullers-ipa-and-bengal-lancer-facts.html

TLDR - IPA was created by Reg Drury at 4.8% on cask using just Goldings, Lancer is a similar beer created by John Keeling and Derek Prentice tinkering, using Goldings and Fuggles in the copper and then dry-hopping with Goldings and Target (see also the main Fuller partigyle) in the FV. They were offered a small contract to do it for a UK supermarket which fell through in the end, but then it won a blind tasting for the Swedish alcohol monopoly and so it went into production. One of the comments suggests that the Swedes are now labelling Lancer as a 5.3% IPA.

 

[Fredrik Lerigon]

Thank you Nothern Brewer, Your a star!

Will start from there and c what I come up with. I guess that my palet has changed since then but will give it a go.

Fredrik

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Thank you Nothern Brewer, Your a star!

Will start from there and c what I come up with.

No worries. I'd have a look through that main Fuller's thread to get a feel for how they do things direct from their brewbook, and then throw in more Fuggles & Goldings to get up to 47 IBU.... Zak's first article on Lancer gives some nice tasting notes, with other people giving their takes as well.

The beer is a copper-gold colour, and pin-bright in the manner that Fuller's beers tend to be, despite being bottle conditioned. The aroma is classic Fuller's - so classic that having visited the brewery, I can say that it smells like a cross between their brewhouse and hop store. If you haven't visited Fuller's, that's not very descriptive, so I'll try a bit harder. Bengal Lancer smells of spicy whole leaf hops (although they use pellets), toffee, ginger cake and ozone. On the tongue, there's an initial burst of medium-bodied malty toffee, which is slowly reeled in by a dry, spicy bitterness, finishing with bitter flourish and a faint puff of geraniums.

I like this beer a lot - it's got a lot of understated hop character which might fool people into thinking that it's lacking in hops, but when you actually pay attention to what is going on, there's a huge wallop of spicy dryness in the finish.

 

[ESBrewer]

Never had it, was it as sweet as London pride?

Compared to LP there is more hops in the IPA so it won't feel as sweet/round. But the malt, esters & residual sweetness (=their yeast) are still there making it quite balanced. Definitely an English IPA with earthy/flowery British hops and rather malty body vs American IPAs which tend have higher IBUs and more fruity aroma.

 

[Miraculix]

Compared to LP there is more hops in the IPA so it won't feel as sweet/round. But the malt, esters & residual sweetness (=their yeast) are still there making it quite balanced. Definitely an English IPA with earthy/flowery British hops and rather malty body vs American IPAs which tend have higher IBUs and more fruity aroma.

Ok, I'll try to get it somewhere and to try it myself. I love their yeast, but not the residual sweetness.... I take measures to up the attenuation when using it, but then it is just my clear favorite.
Balanced with more hops might do the trick as well for me.

 

[ESBrewer]

I think the certain sweetness in their standard gravity beers is more about the combination of [orange marmalade esters / small amounts of maltotriose / small amounts of caramelized & maillard compounds from crystal malt / only moderate hops] than a high final gravity. FG in, say, London Pride is below 1.010 (1.008-9 if I remember correctly). Of course, if this yeast for some reason stalls at 1.020 the resulting beer may feel cloyingly sweet (this has happened to some brewers who tried to imitate this type of brews). It is also quite common to use too much crystal malt. Because people often think that the certain sweetness means that FG and % of crystal must be high, which is not the case.

 

[Miraculix]

I think the certain sweetness in their standard gravity beers is more about the combination of [orange marmalade esters / small amounts of maltotriose / small amounts of caramelized & maillard compounds from crystal malt / only moderate hops] than a high final gravity. FG in, say, London Pride is below 1.010 (1.008-9 if I remember correctly). Of course, if this yeast for some reason stalls at 1.020 the resulting beer may feel cloyingly sweet (this has happened to some brewers who tried to imitate this type of brews). It is also quite common to use too much crystal malt. Because people often think that the certain sweetness means that FG and % of crystal must be high, which is not the case.

That is certainly interesting. I would have guestimated London pride at above 1.02 fg for sure. Even with 10% simple sugars, low mash and only 5% Crystal the yeast gives me only 75% attenuation. The last try was even more around 70% with all chevallier malt and 10% simple sugars.

 

[ba-brewer]

Anyone know of a vendor that sell fresh UK hops in the US or a UK vendor that sells fresh hops and will mail to the US?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Brewuk.co.uk and themaltmiller.co.uk probably have the best selection and aiui are pretty well geared up to international orders; stocksfarm.net are expensive in comparison but you are buying from the former head of the BHA and they have some experimental varieties.

 

[ba-brewer]

Thanks @Northern_Brewer. I did try themaltmiller but they said no shipping to the US, they did seem to have a good selection of 2018 hops. I will try the others.

 

[Landlord]

Anyone know of a vendor that sell fresh UK hops in the US or a UK vendor that sells fresh hops and will mail to the US?

I bought some fresh UK hops from crossmyloof brewing,
https://www.crossmyloofbrew.co.uk/online-store

pretty good prices, I had mine shipped to my parents in the uk, but I am pretty sure they ship over the pond for a decent price.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Crossmyloof prices include shipping, which means they work out cheap for getting the odd pack (in fact I had one arrive today from them) but expensive for larger amounts. Another plus point is that they do a range of pack sizes, whereas most places in the UK just sell in 100g packs. They tend not to have a great selection of British varieties though - they didn't have the likes of Endeavour when I was ordering (nor Magnum surprisingly) but they're one of the few places here to have eg Calypso.

Surprised TMM wouldn't ship Stateside though. Another one to look at is www.brewstore.co.uk have a reasonable selection, and do some in 50g and 200g packs.

The most recent season hops generally only start to appear in the retail channel around this time of year, except for the ex-farm suppliers.

 

[Hanglow]

hey @Northern_Brewer you are up in the "name that skyline" thread


Here's an interesting thread on yorkshire squares at home from jbk

https://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=86&t=81630

 

[ba-brewer]

I bought some fresh UK hops from crossmyloof brewing,
https://www.crossmyloofbrew.co.uk/online-store

pretty good prices, I had mine shipped to my parents in the uk, but I am pretty sure they ship over the pond for a decent price.

Thanks for the tip. It looks like they do ship to the US, and the price seems a bit better than what I paid for hops form stocksfarm.net. I will check back with them before my make another order.

Crossmyloof prices include shipping, which means they work out cheap for getting the odd pack (in fact I had one arrive today from them) but expensive for larger amounts. Another plus point is that they do a range of pack sizes, whereas most places in the UK just sell in 100g packs. They tend not to have a great selection of British varieties though - they didn't have the likes of Endeavour when I was ordering (nor Magnum surprisingly) but they're one of the few places here to have eg Calypso.

Surprised TMM wouldn't ship Stateside though. Another one to look at is www.brewstore.co.uk have a reasonable selection, and do some in 50g and 200g packs.

The most recent season hops generally only start to appear in the retail channel around this time of year, except for the ex-farm suppliers.

Thanks for the information on the timing of the freshest crop. I was nervous I had already missed the boat as I seen mostly 2017 or older hops at most places that had harvest years listed.

I do believe brewstore.co.uk would ship to the US but when I look I did not see any 2018 hops listed or ones I was interested in.

I did get the following hops from stocksfarm.net; golding, target, phoenix, jester and sovereign. They promptly filled the order and shipped the day after ordering.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

the price seems a bit better than what I paid for hops form stocksfarm.net. I will check back with them before my make another order.

I did get the following hops from stocksfarm.net; golding, target, phoenix, jester and sovereign. They promptly filled the order and shipped the day after ordering.

Oh, Stocks Farm are probably the most expensive hops in the UK, you're paying a big premium for the from-the-farm schtick, that's probably not worth it for "ordinary" varieties like Target but they do have some fun specialist ones - Jester and Olicana are still fairly hard to come by, and the likes of GP75 you can only get from them.

For the mainstream varieties, I'd be interested to try the Brook Farm ones from Malt Miller, they've obviously spent a lot of money in making sure they're processing them as well as possible.

 

[ba-brewer]

Sure it was a bit expensive for a fairly common hop, but I was not seeing anything fresh local to me and I am leery of the quality of the ones I had been using. The premium price I paid spread out over quite a few batches is relatively frugal compared to the cost of hops some people put into a single NEIPA brew.

Some of the newer varieties seemed interesting but they also seemed closer to North American hops than traditional varieties so the value was harder to see.

 

[z-bob]

I haven't bought British hops from Hops Direct, but I have bought US and New Zealand hops and both were excellent and the prices are good. And they have a few varieties from UK:
https://hopsdirect.com/collections/pellet-hops/Imported HTH

 

[ba-brewer]

I have been watching hopsdirect, yakamavalleyhops and farmhousesupply for a while and did not see any 2018 UK hops.
If the local shops in the UK are just starting to list 2018 ones that could explain why I did not see anything local yet.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Bear in mind that the 2018 heatwave has meant a small crop, some growers were 30% down on average, whereas 2017 was a huge crop. So there is relatively a lot of 2017 in the system, whereas the spot market for 2018 is going to be pretty tight, and in slightly unpredictable ways. So for instance Malt Miller have obviously been caught out specifically on leaf EKG and are selling it at Citra or Vic Secret prices, but they have pellets at "normal" prices. Two years ago there were stories of people being shorted on contracts for Challenger, and I suspect there are equally crazy positions this year.

Don't forget the UK industry is pretty small, smaller in acreage than Mosaic or Chinook in the US, and fragmented into lots of varieties. Goldings is the biggest at 600 acres, of which only 40% is in East Kent, there's less than 250 acres each of First Gold and Fuggle which are the next biggest, whilst the likes of Bramling Cross are down to a few fields. There's actually a greater acreage of US Goldings than EKG.

 

[kmarkstevens]

I haven't bought British hops from Hops Direct, but I have bought US and New Zealand hops and both were excellent and the prices are good. And they have a few varieties from UK:
https://hopsdirect.com/collections/pellet-hops/Imported HTH

I really like Hops Direct, but they are sold out of EKG and most of the British hops last I checked. 2017 Fuggles is $13.10. To digress, when I got back into homebrewing in 2016 after about a decade's sabbatical, I went to hops direct and picked up 2# First Gold and 2# Sonnet Golding pellets being closed out for $20 total. That, wanting low alcohol yet tasty beer and Barclay Perkins got me into the wealth and glory that is British beer.

 

[Derp]

Yakima Valley just sent an email saying that 2017 UK Fuggle pellets are on sale for $12/pound. Good price, and maybe it means that they're clearing out 2017 in anticipation of the arrival of the 2018 crop?

EDIT: Now that I think of it, I think they might have had only 2016 Fuggle in stock before today. The website says they have 300 pounds available, so maybe they just received their first 2017 Fuggle crop.

 

[Miraculix]

Was forced to go out of the house by my girlfriend to buy chocolate and toilet paper at the corner shop, didn't get any paper but found greene King xx mild in the fridge of the shop. Supposed to be a decent mild, according to online sources and fairly new in the bottle.


I just had a greene King Dipa last weekend which was surprisingly good. Looking forward to having my first what is looking to be a decent and original dark mild tonight

Anybody had it?

 

[z-bob]

I really like Hops Direct, but they are sold out of EKG and most of the British hops last I checked. 2017 Fuggles is $13.10. To digress, when I got back into homebrewing in 2016 after about a decade's sabbatical, I went to hops direct and picked up 2# First Gold and 2# Sonnet Golding pellets being closed out for $20 total. That, wanting low alcohol yet tasty beer and Barclay Perkins got me into the wealth and glory that is British beer.

I saw all those English hops and did not click thru to see that they were out of stock. Sorry about that; if they were not available I thought it would say so on the list.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Looking forward to having my first what is looking to be a decent and original dark mild tonight

Anybody had it?

I think that was one of the ones I had at GBBF last year and I lost my notes...

You could have had Holt's Mild on cask at the Euston Tap earlier this week...

It is noticeable that with English hops being out of fashion, they can hang around in the warehouse, whereas something like Galaxy will only be the latest vintage if any.

 

[Miraculix]

I think that was one of the ones I had at GBBF last year and I lost my notes...

You could have had Holt's Mild on cask at the Euston Tap earlier this week...

It is noticeable that with English hops being out of fashion, they can hang around in the warehouse, whereas something like Galaxy will only be the latest vintage if any.

Just having it, it is really good.does not taste like 3% at all, full of flavour. Nicely balanced with the hops, really good beer. If I would try brewing a dark mild,I would aim for something similar.

 

[z-bob]

I made invert syrup tonight in a pressure cooker. I have some 1.5 pint Mason jars, and I put a pound of unbleached cane sugar in each one. I added 8 ounces of hot (almost boiling) distilled water to the first two, and that looked like too much water so I only added 6 ounces to the other two. Also I added 1/8 tsp of citric acid to each jar. Stirred them up, and the sugar was not all dissolved but most of it was and it was all suspended.

I did not put lids on the jars, and I put them in my big canner and processed them at 15 pounds for an hour. That's longer than I intended; I forgot about it while I was watching TV. I turned the fire off and let it cool down on its own until I could open it up.

All 4 jars are much darker than when they went in. Surprisingly, the jars with more water are noticeably darker than the other 2. The jars with less water had 1/2 inch of undissolved sugar at the bottom; I stirred it in and it seemed to dissolve but I won't be surprised if those jars are crystallized tomorrow. I don't know if they are *really* lighter colored, or if they have little crystals throughout that are scattering the light.

The syrup is very thin (but it's still hot) and tastes kinda molasses-y. The plan was to pour the syrup into hot pint jars with 2-piece lids and seal them. I put lids on them loosely and will figure out what to do with them tomorrow. I think 6 ounces of water per pound might be the right amount, but I should have cooked it on the stove just until all the sugar was dissolved and then poured into jars.

Edit: None of the jar crystallized overnight, not even the ones where I stirred some undissolved sugar back into it. And they might have darkened a little more. It's still pretty thin, so I'm going to put it in a stockpot and boil it down a little just to reduce it; it will fit in 4 pint canning jars that way.

 

[kmarkstevens]

I saw all those English hops and did not click thru to see that they were out of stock. Sorry about that; if they were not available I thought it would say so on the list.

Austin Home Brew supply has a close out on Bramling Cross pellets with 1 pound for $10. I'm sure these are old but I've found hop pellets in a nitrogen bag keep pretty well. I have wanted to try bramling cross but never found them before, and these arrive on Monday.

 

[Landlord]

Just kegged a lovely bitter, tasted smelled and looked awesome on the way into the keg:

1048 SG
1010 FG
5%
35 IBU

8lb 8oz Crisp gleaneagles floor malted maris otter
8 oz simpsons crystal medium 65L
8 oz torrified wheat (OIO canada)
8 oz homemade invert #2ish
60min boil
20g northdown FWH
15g northdown @ 5Mins
30g stryian goldings, 20g Northdown and 20g EKG @ flameout

Fermentation: Ringwood ale (escarpments yeast) approx 200B cells pitched into 18°C wort which had 1min of pure O2. free rise to 20°C hold for 7 days. D-rest @ 25°C for 3 days. Aiming for 1.5vols of CO2 in the keg and serve at 12°C.

I guess its a bit big and hoppy for a traditional bitter, but I think its gonna be real tasty!

 

[Buckwilde]

common room esb

 

[z-bob]

I have 4 pints of #3-ish invert syrup, about a pound of sugar in each jar. How best to use it for my first try? I was thinking maybe an ESB because I have pale ale malt and Fuggles hops already. How much syrup should I use in 4 gallons? Is S-04 yeast okay if I ferment it cold, or would S-33 (close cousin of Windsor) be better? Or Nottingham?

Hopefully those of you who are English ale connoisseurs are not cringing too much. I'm not going for authentic yet, just want to practice with the ingredients that I have on-hand before buying more.