One of my local breweries released a beer and called it a mild. It's been quickly rebranded as a dry stout.
English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?
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"How many Eriks did you have?"
"About ten, I can barely walk..."
.... This paints kind of another picture when asking a woman.
Got a batch boiling now, soon done with the boil.
A sort of turn of the (last) century Truman Porter inspired brew, Chevalier, 13% Crisp Brown, 7% Simpson Black Malt, 15% invert 3.
Expected OG 1.055 and abv just over 5-5.5% 40-45 IBU
A sort of turn of the (last) century Truman Porter inspired brew, Chevalier, 13% Crisp Brown, 7% Simpson Black Malt, 15% invert 3.
Expected OG 1.055 and abv just over 5-5.5% 40-45 IBU
I'd drink that!
I tried doing a hoch-kurz mash aswell with the Chevalier, 30 min at 62c and 40 at 71c. Been looking in Stout! and Porter! and they have mash schedules specified for Whitbread and Truman from the late 1800's forward to the time they moved away from Chev and the common practice seem to have been basically a hoch-kurz mash with some minor modifications...
This sounded just the job ... I'd been looking for something to use in place of the "caramel" in @patto1ro's recipes (generics ... 500 SRM, 1000 SRM, etc.). E150c gets the colour but nothing for the flavour.
Trouble is, "Natuurlijk" translates to "Naturally", and Google loves to translate so goes off into Nether-nether-land (link?). Still, I persevered; couldn't find "Natuurlijk" brand, but did find:
Tru Jamaica Burnt Sugar - Amazon UK
Price is Nether-nether-land too, until you twig it's for 4Kg! Anyone tried it? (Jamaica is a bit closer to US than UK!). Contains E150c, but I guess that's just to tweak the final colour and keep it consistent?
Colindo
Well-Known Member
@Peebee Might be that Tru Jamaica is similar, no idea. It's always best to get the datasheet to be on the safe side. Maybe call them and ask?
I provided a link to the stuff I bought in my first post about it. Hope that helps.
I provided a link to the stuff I bought in my first post about it. Hope that helps.
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
They seem to have found some more Chevallier and Hana down the back of the sofa, they're back in stock for now.
For those that don't know, Hana is the original lager barley, the Czech equivalent of Chevallier - and it's great, highly recommend it.
Plumage Archer is pretty similar to Otter, and rumour has it that Crisp are giving up on it so this may be your last chance to get some.
Transport costs are always going to be tough for barley, it's just heavy, but some of this stuff may otherwise be hard to get for people outside the UK. If you do have someone who deals with Crisp, it's always worth asking them to put in a special order for the fun stuff.
I used Hana twice and got pretty lower attenuations(mid 60's) with a fairly attenuation friendly mash schedule. First time I used S-23, second time I used WLP850.
Beers tasted good just seemed a bit odd, anyone else have experience with the crisp hana malt?
edit: double checked attenuations s-23 63% 148,164F mash, wlp850 64% 152,164F mash.
Beers tasted good just seemed a bit odd, anyone else have experience with the crisp hana malt?
edit: double checked attenuations s-23 63% 148,164F mash, wlp850 64% 152,164F mash.
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Sorry for the aside, but Erik how do you like his books? I only have his vintage book and of course his blog. But the rest of the (physical, can't stand kindle reading) on my cart.
I doubt it, but I'll give it a try. Do you have the Natuurlijk site link, Colindo? Can't seem to get Brupak or Brewferm here, and not really wanting to go to Sinamar for color.
Never tried but would like to, due to their being somewhat undermodified. Did you decoct?
Colindo
Well-Known Member
The vintage book is the only one that was edited to contain novel content. The other books are mostly just collections of his blog posts. So it's not strictly necessary to buy them if you have read tons of his posts already.
www.natuurlijknatuurlijk.nl
OK, great, thanks for both.
Edit: Is this the stuff? Seems to suggest it's quite flavorful. Not that that's a problem for many brews but I was looking for something more on the lines of the Brupak, powerful coloring agent without much else.
I did not, they were step mashes with a RIMS setup. Conversions were pretty close to expectations.
The malt was from an early release of the malt I think, I would like try it again but I cant get it locally and it is pretty expensive through the online US outlets.
Yeah, I hear you. $4/lb through NB. No time soon.
Definitely not true for all of his books. Decoction is mostly all from his blog but Scotland v.2 ("All material in is new, apart from a few recipes, of which there are almost 400.") or Let’s Brew or the wonderful 1909 Beer Style Guide have lots of important info and recipes not on the blog.
Colindo
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Didn't know that about the Scotland! and 1909 books. I have Let's Brew! and I did find some of those recipes on his blog, but maybe only a few?
I have Mild! and Brown Beer! and those are both 1:1 from his blog.
As others have said, much of the contents in the books is from his blog, although they often contain some recipes and snippets of info not posted.
Not to mention the ease of having a book filled with info about mild, porter, stout etc specifically when you need to look something up instead of sifting through blog archives.
Plus you support his continued work by buying his books.
Just had to say it's amazing how much closer to Swedish the Dutch language is compared to German. I could actually kinda understand what was written about the sugar on that website...
I suppose it's because many words are fairly similair and the compound words are fairly similair to other words that have roughly the same meaning in my language, and the syntax is a lot closer and "natural" to me than German.
Colindo
Well-Known Member
@Miraculix Today my standard supermarket suddenly stocked all the sugar goodies we have been talking about. So I did some comparisons.
Grafschafter Heller Sirup vs. Lyle's Golden Syrup: The German product is much paler and has barely any flavour when directly compared. Lyle's has a flavour that seems to be 50% like maple syrup and 50% caramel. The Grafschafter just seemed sweet with an incredibly small caramel contribution. So it's really more a source of simple sugars than a substitute for invert No 1, in my opinion.
Sugar beet molasses: Grafschafter vs Bauck: The latter has a bit of a liquorice touch, which makes it closer to Black Treacle than the Grafschafter. However both are still far too mild compared to the original. Unfortunately they are also less fruity, otherwise I wouldn't have minded the milder character. But without the fruitiness it really lacks something.
Grafschafter Heller Sirup vs. Lyle's Golden Syrup: The German product is much paler and has barely any flavour when directly compared. Lyle's has a flavour that seems to be 50% like maple syrup and 50% caramel. The Grafschafter just seemed sweet with an incredibly small caramel contribution. So it's really more a source of simple sugars than a substitute for invert No 1, in my opinion.
Sugar beet molasses: Grafschafter vs Bauck: The latter has a bit of a liquorice touch, which makes it closer to Black Treacle than the Grafschafter. However both are still far too mild compared to the original. Unfortunately they are also less fruity, otherwise I wouldn't have minded the milder character. But without the fruitiness it really lacks something.
Brewskey
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Just got an email that British hops are in at Hop Alliance. Never used them before but I picked up some first gold and challenger...
Hop Alliance
Hop Alliance
Shenanigans
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Just got back from Ireland and picked up some sugar products there.
Should be enough to keep me going until next year:
I'm going to (re)try out a few sugars I got in a Dutch supermarket too.
Although I read the syrup is not supposed to be that great for brewing Belgians with, it might work for an English style beer.
The dark basterd sugar I have only tried in a few strong dark roasty beers so can't really say what it contributed.
I might try it in something more simple at some stage.
Should be enough to keep me going until next year:
I'm going to (re)try out a few sugars I got in a Dutch supermarket too.
Although I read the syrup is not supposed to be that great for brewing Belgians with, it might work for an English style beer.
The dark basterd sugar I have only tried in a few strong dark roasty beers so can't really say what it contributed.
I might try it in something more simple at some stage.
Thanks for the heads up. Got some EKG and Bramling Cross, which I never find. Wanted some Endeavour (which I've had before) but it was already sold out. I had been looking at Stocks Farm in the UK, as they have whole hops, but the shipping alone was $25 and the hops much more expensive, so this was a better option, especially since I am about to be completely out of English hops after I brew a dark mild this weekend.
Thanks for sounding the alarm. Saved me a bundle over the next year and change.
It's rather distressing to learn how they make Lyle's Golden Syrup these days (good descriptions from Ragus, the nearest competitor for this product ... they share part of their histories). Nothing like the original process despite what they say on the tin.
And nothing like Invert Syrup No.1. White granulated sugar would be closer (comparing with the Ragus "blocks" of "Invert", though they bear little resemblance to how Brewer's Invert Syrup was originally made either). Ragus is the last remaining manufacturer of "Brewer's Invert Sugar" although it is an "emulation" of what it formerly was.
Golden Syrup is purposely caramelised (as was the original product, though it was a consequence of how it was made). Golden Syrup is "partially inverted", because they take fully inverted syrup and dilute it with sucrose syrup to get the "right" percentage. It is an "emulation" after all.
One of the three beers I put on tap almost a week ago, a 3.4% mild.
Been very pleased with nuka tap stout spout nozzles, combined with natural carbonation in the keg and cellar temp in the fridge they give a decent faux handpull-with-a-sparkler effect.
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And as sidenote: now we've officially entered the never getting dark period of the year, I was staying up last night and went to bed right after midnight. Looked out the window right before that and saw there was this sort of late evening twilight outside but never actually got completely dark...
Well, at least your beer gets dark!
What was the original process?
Sucrose crystalised out of the "mother liquor" during sugar refining. The "molasses" was drained from the crystallised solid, latterly by centrifuge (later into 19th C.). The process had to be repeated a few times to get anything like "white" sugar.
The process created a lot of "molasses", which would still contain a lot of sugars. The refiners got clever and squeezed more sugar out of the molasses ... it involved plenty of heat, which significantly caramelised the syrup. No doubt it caused additional inverting of sucrose in the original molasses ... and the result was Golden Syrup.
The "waste" was molasses again, but even darker and deprived of more sugar. I never really thought about it until recently ... each stage of refining produced less molasses, but it was finer and darker than from the preceding stage (had been subject to more heat by that stage).
All that processing made refined sugars far too expensive to use in beer. But the refining process could be broken into at its various stages. The hot syrup "inverted" to keep it as a syrup with the molasses at that stage included (it was not allowed to crystallise) ... the result was Brewer's Invert Syrup! (No.4 ... rough! ... to No.1 ... expensive!).
That's very summarised, but probably explains why I get so heated by the suggestion that "Invert Sugar" was created by "caramelising" refined sugar.
I see. In other words, pretty hard to replicate without access to raw sugar cane juice and the will to go through the whole old school refining process at home.
I wonder if bauck zuckerrübensirup is a quick and dirty hack for this. Just as a small addition to the invert sirup. This specific brand is very caramelly, much more than grafschafter goldsaft, for example. Time for some experiments, I guess.
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Off topic of English ales, but on topic of molasses, my kiddo and I were recently reading a book about a "molasses flood" in Boston just over 100 years ago. Pretty big deal, and actually killed people: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Molasses_Flood
They were actually making ethanol from it, so I suppose it's vaguely beer related!
They were actually making ethanol from it, so I suppose it's vaguely beer related!
The terms used are lovely! Sugar isn't dissolved ... it's "melted". The syrup being boiled down isn't syrup ... it's "magma". And the mass of crystalising sugar that forms in the "mother liquor" is the "massecuite".
Sugar cane couldn't be the raw material because it went off (mouldy) so quick. The cane was milled, the juice was extracted and t'was boiled down locally (sometimes in the field). The boiled down juice (first stage massecuite?) was the raw material. Indian "jaggery" might be similar, but it is sort of creamed together as it cooled, and probably these days loaded with refined sugar to make it cheaper (and rip the punters off with).
A dark molasses might be the best starting point for attempting an authentic Golden Syrup. But I've no idea what the original process was. And I imagine the tins of Lyle's Golden Syrup are a pretty good emulation.
Sugar cane couldn't be the raw material because it went off (mouldy) so quick. The cane was milled, the juice was extracted and t'was boiled down locally (sometimes in the field). The boiled down juice (first stage massecuite?) was the raw material. Indian "jaggery" might be similar, but it is sort of creamed together as it cooled, and probably these days loaded with refined sugar to make it cheaper (and rip the punters off with).
A dark molasses might be the best starting point for attempting an authentic Golden Syrup. But I've no idea what the original process was. And I imagine the tins of Lyle's Golden Syrup are a pretty good emulation.
Yeap ... early on the first runoff of molasses never made out of the West Indies ... It was too valuable for making rum.
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