Electrical socket assistance

[Jpartschjr]

I have the avantco 3500 watt system that is gaining a lot of traction with popularity for brewing.

I have dedicated 20 am plugs which will work when i get an 1800 watt unit for sparge water etc... But i am at a standstill for plug on the 3500 watt unit.

I have an open stove socket to use but it is set up with 4 prong socket. This is a 240/50a circuit.

Do i drop the breaker to a 30a breaker and change the socket to a 30 amp socket that will accept the plug from the avantco? (Plug is one flat horizontal, one flat vertical, and one round)

Or, can i leave the 50a breaker and just change the socket to a 30a socket?

Or do i just change the plug on the avantco to plug i to what exists and, if this is the right choice, so i cut off what is there and splice there or open machine and run entire new cord?


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[brew_ny]

make a short cord that has the plug you need on one end and the outlet you need on the other

I would leave the 50 amp breaker alone

all the best

S_M

 

[grathan]

Ideally you would have gfci outlet from what I've read. The 50A stove socket won't have this. In fact they seem pretty rare and expensive outside of hot tub spa panels.



Something like this:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Midwest-...el-Disconnect-with-GFI-UG412RMW250P/100686230

then wire all your element outlets to this.

 

[brew_ny]

Ideally you would have gfci outlet from what I've read.

I believe he is talking about using an induction table range

all the best

S_M

 

[jeffmeh]

Unless the induction unit is rated for 50a, or is internally fused at 30a, running it on a 50a circuit would be a very bad idea. If something were to go wrong (e.g., a short circuit) the 50a breaker would not protect the induction unit's wiring or components.

 

[milldoggy]

Ideally you would have gfci outlet from what I've read. The 50A stove socket won't have this. In fact they seem pretty rare and expensive outside of hot tub spa panels.



Something like this:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Midwest-...el-Disconnect-with-GFI-UG412RMW250P/100686230

then wire all your element outlets to this.

Second this. Might have to make your own. Get a box like the spa panel and cut a hole in the side and mount whatever receptacle you need. Create an ext cord to your stove plug. You probably should use a 20 amp breaker or whatever is required for your cooktook.

 

[Jpartschjr]

Cooktop is rated for 30a. With all the people using this cooktop i am shocked nobody else ran into this. This is a conduction range single pot top. Thank you for all the input.

The GFCI is a great idea for heating elements but even for something built to be plugged directly i to the wall and used in a commercial cooking application?


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[The10mmKid]

I 2nd Brew_NY's suggestion of a pigtail adapter.

Buy the proper range cord, an outdoor 'Bell' box and the correct 30A recepticle with a cover.

The circuit breakers in your home are NEVER sized to protect devices . . . . just the wiring in the walls.

'da Kid

 

[passedpawn]

I have the avantco 3500 watt system that is gaining a lot of traction with popularity for brewing.

I have dedicated 20 am plugs which will work when i get an 1800 watt unit for sparge water etc... But i am at a standstill for plug on the 3500 watt unit.

I have an open stove socket to use but it is set up with 4 prong socket. This is a 240/50a circuit.

Do i drop the breaker to a 30a breaker and change the socket to a 30 amp socket that will accept the plug from the avantco? (Plug is one flat horizontal, one flat vertical, and one round)

Or, can i leave the 50a breaker and just change the socket to a 30a socket?

Or do i just change the plug on the avantco to plug i to what exists and, if this is the right choice, so i cut off what is there and splice there or open machine and run entire new cord?


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You can either change the 50A socket to a 30A socket, or better yet make the adapter recommended above. Or, change the plug like you suggest. These would all be safe changes. There's no need to change the breaker.

I have no idea if these changes are approved by the code in your area.

 

[The10mmKid]

And Jpartschjr,
You are actually describing a 20A/240v plug. Like a NEMA 6-20?

NEMA has numbers for all the plug styles.
Call out what number you have from the chart in this link:
http://www.powercabling.com/content/nema.html

Your range outlet would be a NEMA 14-50R (R for recepticle)

Later,
'da Kid

 

[brew_ny]

And Jpartschjr,
You are actually describing a 20A/240v plug. Like a NEMA 6-20?

NEMA has numbers for all the plug styles.
Call out what number you have from the chart in this link:
http://www.powercabling.com/content/nema.html

Your range would be a NEMA 14-50R (R for recepticle)

Later,
'da Kid

thanks for the chart I thought that was a 20 amp plug not a 30 he was describing it is hard for me to keep them straight without a chart

all the best

S_M

 

[Jpartschjr]

Nema 6-20 looks right and was what another told me i needed as a receptacle. Just odd as i thought the 3500 watt was too much for 20a

Specifications 208/240v 60hz

Maybe i was mistaken that i needed 30a if it is actually 20a for 3500 watt unit.

So is my confusion coming from lack of understanding my hardware properly?


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[scottyb710]

3500\240 is like 14.5 amps 16.8 at 208. Don't put that on a 50 amp breaker.

 

[The10mmKid]

<snip>
So is my confusion coming from lack of understanding my hardware properly?

Nah, just a high output appliance rarely seen in a home application.

Jpartschjr, you may have more options now.

Run an inexpensive 20A/240 circuit for the induction unit. Replace that range breaker with a 20A, run some 12/2WG wire, a single device box and the 6-20R outlet. That would be the righteous way to do it.

'da Kid

 

[Jpartschjr]

Looking at how possible it is to run a new circuit but at this point looks like i jumped into an under educated decision and am dealing with the consequences.

May just be easier to take a loss on the avantco unit and go back to doing something that i can utilize my current electrical for (like a system with heating elements and pumps).

Th wiring was done during a full gut and remodel and everything is done and inspected and i dont want to go tearing into my ceiling to run more wire.


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[scottyb710]

Why it's easy if you have an attic or unfinished basement.

 

[brew_ny]

I would still just make a pigtail and not worry about the 50 amp beaker, as stated before the breaker protects the wire not the device (range)

if you wanted to you could make a plug in subpanel

or maybe just talk to a electrician and ask him about using a pigtail get his thoughts

we plug in lower amp devices into higher amp circuits all the time and never give it a thought

I plug my 5500 watt controller into a 30 outlet the is connected to a 60 amp CFCI beaker

the controller has a fuse inside that is 30 amps to protect it and I would bet there is some kind of fuse inside your unit

all the best

S_M

 

[Jpartschjr]

My electrician is the one that told me i would need new circuit... I am not opposed to a pigtail if it is safe


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[dyqik]

I think there's known to be a 15A fuse in this 3500W induction unit - see this post on the main thread on them.

 

[Jpartschjr]

I like the plug
In sub panel idea as well. I am going to explore a little
Further, try a few things out. If not i go to full electric build and sell this to help finance that.


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[Jpartschjr]

Dyqik

That link took me to a carbonation thread


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[brew_ny]

My electrician is the one that told me i would need new circuit... I am not opposed to a pigtail if it is safe


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I would guess he said that because of the plug, but who knows

I am no sparky but have run lots of electricity around my place and it has not burned down yet

knock on wood

the pigtail is just my thoughts on a solution

all the best

S_M

 

[geoffm33]

Dyqik

That link took me to a carbonation thread


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That's a bug on the mobile app, try it from the desktop.

 

[scottyb710]

I'm a electrician you can only over size to the max fuse size of the equipment. You don't want a 20 amp circuit on a 50 amp breaker.

 

[brew_ny]

I'm a electrician you can only over size to the max fuse size of the equipment. You don't want a 20 amp circuit on a 50 amp breaker.

when you say 20 amp circuit are you saying wire size ? like a 12 ga wire on a 50 amp breaker?

the wire going to his outlet from the 50 amp breaker I would think it would be the correct size

thanks

S_M

 

[scottyb710]

It's is just a big breaker for a 20 amp piece of equipment it will work but if something shorts in the equipment it is going to fry it.

 

[scottyb710]

Like a 30 amp a/c unit will say like 40 amp max fuse size. It's just too protect the equipment

 

[brew_ny]

It's is just a big breaker for a 20 amp piece of equipment it will work but if something shorts in the equipment it is going to fry it.

but the equipment should be protected by an internal fuse correct and not so much protected by the beaker ?

thanks

S_M

 

[scottyb710]

It probably has a fuse inside of it but the wire inside are so small if there is a fault the will all fuse together from the plug point to the fuse if it has a fuse it might have a thermal cut out instead.

 

[geoffm33]

If you don't swap the breaker and have to replace/repair the cooktop, you'll likely swap the breaker at that point. So depending on the cost to swap the breaker and the receptacle, it's good insurance.

 

[brew_ny]

put a 20 amp breaker in the line from the plug to the outlet would be an option or whatever the size is that is needed

I would just get a 50 amp spa panel and plug it in to the oven outlet and go from there

it would then be a ground fault circuit and you could do 110 if need be

all the best

S_M

 

[scottyb710]

A two pole 20 amp breaker is like $14 and 5 min to change.

 

[brew_ny]

A two pole 20 amp breaker is like $14 and 5 min to change.

this is very true and very easy to do

then just change the outlet or use the pigtail

but in the end OP needs to do what he feels will work the best for him

all the best

S_M

 

[scottyb710]

You could use the spa panel and feed the the 50 amp gfi breaker the by a two pole 20 you can get the spa panels with extra breaker spaces. Then you are gfi protect in all other circuits on that panel.

 

[Jpartschjr]

Thanks all! I think i have some great direction for this week. Going to hit up the local electrical store, show the guys there and either use sub panel or change plug and fuse.

They are familiar with code for my area and supply all the professionals. Thank you all again!


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[Jpartschjr]

Ok... Quote from electrician came in to create a nema 6-20 box that plugs into 50a existing socket.... $250... That is with no GFCI. I'm thinking i am much better of hitting the electrical supply store and building this myself.

By the time i am done with this, i could have just made a full electric system so this defeats the thought of save some money and space over full electric build. I will still save space though.


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[scottyb710]

Yeah that's way high. Don't know whet you live but we charge $80 an hour.

 

[brew_ny]

I'm thinking i am much better of hitting the electrical supply store and building this myself.

right you are there, I know electricians and the ones I know are not cheap

they will not work for me cheap and I have known them forever, but when the screw up their computer systems at their places of business

or crash their servers or lose their data I do not work cheap either

good luck I am sure you can do it yourself

all the best

S_M

edit: 80 dollars and hour is very fair

 

[grathan]

Yeah, I didn't realize you were talking about induction. I would just switch the plug or the receptacle to match. You don't need gfci. Just take it apart in the store to make sure it can hold the bigger wires.