Efficiency Questions

[hercher]

I've been trying to figure out how to properly calculate my brewhouse efficiency, and am concerned that my system/technique is very inefficient.

So I'm hoping that someone can give me an easy to understand calculation for determining efficiency, and then perhaps point out where, if anywhere, my system/technique is lacking.

I recently brewed the following recipe and expected an OG of at least 1.075, but wound up at 1.066 (it's still going to be a really good beer). But then I ran it through a calculator I found on the BYO website http://byo.com/resources/brewing, and found I should have hit 1.090.

Oatmeal Stout:

Maris Otter -- 15 lbs
Caramel 80 -- 2.5 lbs
Black Malt -- 0.5 lbs
Roasted Barley 0.5 lbs
Chocolate -- 0.5 lbs
Oatmeal -- 1.0 lb
1 tsp gypsum

I mashed in with strike water at 170 F, and hit a mash temp of 156. My mash tun is a rectangular Coleman cooler which is about 15 years old. My false bottom is a system of copper pipes with holes and slots cut into them.

I mashed for 1.5 hours, losing only about 4 degrees during the process. I then recirculated the wort through the grain for 25 minutes (manually, and I don't have sparge arms). I began my run off, adding 180 F sparge water throughout the nearly the entire run off. My first gravity was 1.096. Once I collected about 6 gallons, my last gravity was 1.020.

I boiled to for one hour, down to about 5.5 gallons, adding...

Columbus, AA 13.9%, 1 oz, at the start
US Goldings, AA 4.9%, 1 oz, for the last 15 minutes
Irish Moss, 1 tsp, half way through the boil.

I chilled down to 70F, and transferred not quite 5.25 gallons to my primary.

Again, my OG was 1.066, but I suspect it should be higher.

Suggestions, thoughts?

 

[AdamWiz]

An easy and accurate method for calculating efficiency can be found on John Palmer's "How to Brew" website. In chapter 12 it gives a table showing the typical yields from different malt types and the method for calculating your efficiency.

www.howtobrew.com

 

[RoadKing]

Beersmith Etc. will all tell you youe efficiency,
Here's a free online calculator.. http://www.brewheads.com/efficiency.php

 

[hercher]

Beersmith Etc. will all tell you youe efficiency,
Here's a free online calculator.. http://www.brewheads.com/efficiency.php

So according to the brewheads calculator, I should have hit 1.140, but I only got 47.3% efficiency. That doesn't sound very good.

I might have noted above, I have my supplier crush the grains for me -- the supplier is Midwest Supplies.

 

[hercher]

OK, so at the risk of constantly posting on my own thread, I went back to my own records.

Some may be surprised that I used to be brewmaster at a brewpub in NJ (Jersey Jim's, in Hillsborough NJ), and a darn good one. I calculated my efficiency on beers I made there (back in 1996-1999), and was around 85%. (I bought my grain pre-crushed there, as well, because we couldn't afford the mill and the fire-proofing necessary for the mill room.)

I used the exact same methods then that I use now. Then, 5 years ago, I was in the low 70's in efficiency. My supplier then was Williams.

So could the difference be the suppliers and the difference in the crush? I'm holding my temperature in the mash pretty well, so I don't think my mash tun has deteriorated.

 

[HomebrewMTB]

Holy crap! 20 lbs of grain in a 5 gallon batch. That would be one strong stout if you actually hit your efficiency numbers. And you only hit 1.066? Wow, that sucks. It's common to come up with lower efficiency with a higher grain bill since you don't have much to sparge with but that's seems a bit extreme. Is this a new setup for you or at least a new problem just for this batch or is it always this bad?

Hydrometer/refractometer calibration?
Crush?
Mash stir?
Mash ph?
Thermometer calibration?

You might try posting in the all-grain sub-forum as well.

 

[RoadKing]

Hydrometer/refractometer calibration?
Crush?
Mash stir?
Mash ph?
Thermometer calibration? .

I agree with that, plus how did you sparge? If you fy sparged was there channeling? and if you batch sparged did you stir the hell out of it between sparges?
I suspect crush but that had to be one bad crush!

 

[hercher]

Hydrometer/refractometer calibration?
Crush?
Mash stir?
Mash ph?
Thermometer calibration?

I checked my hydrometers in tap water, and both read 1.000. I then checked my thermometer in boiling water, and it hit 212. So those are OK.

I only stir my mash while mashing in, and I stir it pretty carefully to make sure the grains and temperatures are even spread throughout.

I'll admit I don't test pH.

I fly sparge manually by adding 180 degree water while running off the wort. I try to keep about an inch or so of water on top of the grain so as not to disturb the grain bed. I add it pretty carefully, so I don't think there is any channeling.

I'm leaning more and more to the crush as the culprit. But that means shelling out a couple hundred bucks for a mill....

 

[Coff]

I dont Fly Sparge but simply pouring water over the top sounds like a very inefficient way to do it. Maybe batch sparge next time if you dont have the setup?

 

[audger]

I fly sparge manually by adding 180 degree water while running off the wort. I try to keep about an inch or so of water on top of the grain so as not to disturb the grain bed. I add it pretty carefully, so I don't think there is any channeling.

FYI- over 172* and you start extracting tannins and other things you dont want from the grains. thats why mashout temp is only 169-170; you dont want to heat the grains more than that. that shouldnt impact efficiency as far as i know, but something to consider.

i dont know how much money i would put on the crush being the cause. if it were that, everyone buying from midwest should be having trouble.

I calculated my efficiency on beers I made there (back in 1996-1999), and was around 85%. I used the exact same methods then that I use now.

unless you are still using the same equipment, you really cant compare the two. i can brew 80% eff on my setup all day long, but if i were to use the exact same procedure on my friends brew rig, it would be completely different. efficiency is a measure of how well your technique works with your equipment, not the technique alone.

out of curiosity what was the mash water:grain ratio?

EDIT

I began my run off, adding 180 F sparge water throughout the nearly the entire run off. My first gravity was 1.096. Once I collected about 6 gallons, my last gravity was 1.020.

you should be collecting first runnings without sparging at all. (how much you collect before you start adding water is something you have to figure out, im still working on that for my setup). your final runnings should also be down to 1.010. you are leaving sugars behind. this is the area i would be looking at first to improve efficiency. it could be using less water, or sparging for longer, or a number of things.

if my final runnings were 1.020, to improve efficiency i would want to keep drawing off untill i hit 1.010. you would have to boil for longer to reduce the extra volume then.

 

[starrfish]

Some may be surprised that I used to be brewmaster at a brewpub in NJ (Jersey Jim's, in Hillsborough NJ), and a darn good one.

I remember that place, went there several times with a buddy who lives in Hillsborough, back in the 90's

 

[hercher]

OK, so using advice from here and from the "Attention new all grain brewers" thread on the All Grain forum, I brewed again.

13 lbs Maris Otter
.75 lbs Caramel 40
.5 lbs biscuit

1 oz Columbus
1 oz Willamette.

I would note I used a different vendor for my grain (Brewmasters Warehouse) and the crush looked finer than what I get at Midwest Supplies.

I started with about 4.5 gallons strike water at 170 (approx 1.25 quarts/lb), but that left me with too high a mash temp (grain was 68 degrees), so I added enough cold water to get me to 156.

Mash pH was 5.4. I mashed for 70 minutes (iodine test didn't turn purple). I note that the mash was very thin for my usual standard -- downright soupy.

Vorlauf lasted 32 minutes, then I fly sparged as usual with run off last 28 minutes (twice as long as usual).

I collected 7.5 gallons, which I boiled down to 5.25. It took 2 hours to do that.

I'm happy to report that my OG was 1.080, which calculates to about 78% efficiency!

So there were three fundamental changes in my process:

1. Finer crush
2. Thinner mash
3. Slower run-off from the mash.

Thanks for the help everyone. Any additional advice anyone can give me would be greatly appreciated.

 

[C-Rider]

So according to the brewheads calculator, I should have hit 1.140, but I only got 47.3% efficiency. That doesn't sound very good.

I might have noted above, I have my supplier crush the grains for me -- the supplier is Midwest Supplies.

According to this thread MidWest had a problem w/their mill until a few days ago. That could be your problem.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/midwest-grain-mill-update-274735/