E-Stop 110v Panel??

[NervousDad]

So I've been reading a bunch of threads and there appears to be many opinions as to what is the best method. I still can't figure out what the safest way is.

Is it not safe if I make my e-stop the first NC switch on my panel before the master switch and the contactor that controls power to the entire panel? If it's on the control input there should be no load, or would it still pull the full load of the system.

 

[Facinerous]

So your question got me thinking. I really enjoy hbt because the community promotes personal safety first when it comes to brewing beer. But... Your question got me thinking about what function the E-Stop serves when it comes to that safety.

I've been an electrician for a long while now, and from my personal experience there is a difference between electrical safety and mechanical safety. When it comes to working with equipment that poses a mechanical threat to the user there is typically an E-Stop, as to where when there is a piece of equipment that does not pose a mechanical threat to the user there is not.

Now why is that? And further, I've been thinking about brewing, and what are the dangers involved with brewing to the person doing the brewing.

The E-Stop is typically located in a convenient place so that if a person becomes wrapped up in a piece of equipment, or something to that effect, the person can quickly turn off the thing by hitting the big "oh crap" button.

The difference with electrical safety is everything is intrinsically built in so if something goes wrong the system, it takes care of the problem with no interaction from a person.

I'm not going to sit here typing and say that the E-Stop provides a useless function for the average homebrewer, but I will pose the question. What mechanical means of failure is there that requires an E-Stop?

To directly answer your question, what you have seen is typical and would work. I don't think having an oh crap button on placed on the brew controller is the safest though.

Personally, in the event of a major brewing disaster where I wanted to shut everything down, I would want to be at least a few feet away from the whole operation. I would prefer to put a disconnect about 10 feet away, if not on the opposite wall, from my brewing rig. I do not see any reason why a person would get hung up on the equipment where in an event where a major shut down is required a person could not get away. And if liquid was being thrown around and on the ground I wouldn't want to be around it.

That is what I consider the safest system shut down. Get away from the stupid thing. Goto your means of electrical isolation placed about 10 feet away, and turn the silly thing off.

As far as electrical safety goes. As long as you follow the good advice that I have seen on this forum, have good breakers, GFCI breaker, fuses, proper wire size, and the like electrically in your brewing panel. An electrical event should be taken care of by your well thought out system. Not by an E-Stop button.

 

[ChocolateMaltyBalls]

That is what I consider the safest system shut down. Get away from the stupid thing. Goto your means of electrical isolation placed about 10 feet away, and turn the silly thing off.

As far as electrical safety goes. As long as you follow the good advice that I have seen on this forum, have good breakers, GFCI breaker, fuses, proper wire size, and the like electrically in your brewing panel. An electrical event should be taken care of by your well thought out system. Not by an E-Stop button.

Well said, I completely agree which is why neither of the panels I've built have E-stops. My 30amp HERMS is on a dedicated circuit and the breaker is nearby should I need to kill it, if it wasn't I would have put a proper switch nearby. If somehow someway things got that bad the last thing I'd want to do is get close to or touch the panel. For my 120v panel I intend to yank the cord .

But I built them right with proper wiring and GFCI protection to handle whatever un-foreseeable calamity may take place. If that fails me then the fire extinguisher would likely be the next course of action anyway.

 

[augiedoggy]

a GFCI can be a lifesaving device here I believe.... the estop is just for convenience... say a hose somehow comes off and wort is spraying everywhere... you can hit the estop to kill the pump. or your element is dry firing... same deal if your flustered it may take you an extra second to remember which control is for the device you need to kill, Especially when your new to the panel.

As far as an estop actually saving your life here with a homebrew system? Not going to happen unless your always brewing with a partner... if your being electrocuted especially with 220v... your body looses control you cant even let go of what your hand comes in contact with... unless someone else is literally at the right spot at the right second (and it can take less than a second to kill you) the estop is useless for this.

just my 2 cents.... I added one to my panel but did not bother on my latest build.
Now the people who use no GFCI protection... and there are many here... Thats just stupid.

btw it doesnt matter if you wire it before or after the main switch if its connected to a main relay or DC powersupply which powers all your relay coils as in my case. I believe pj wires them in his diagrams so they trip the GFCI right?

 

[NervousDad]

Thanks guys! yeah that's what I'm thinking not really needed for safety, but more for a oh crap I just turn my burner on without a liquid in the line.

 

[Maxkling]

SSR's fail in which ever state they were in last and switch contacts can stick. If you use them to control pumps, elements, or anything else and need to shut it off then the e-stop would be the quickest to save the equipment. Its not always about saving you, but maybe just the equipment, or both. You should use either an isolation contactor as the estop or a shunt breaker.

And sure finding the breaker and throwing it is an options, but in less than a second I can hit my big mushroom head estop button, verses running to the panel and tripping the breakers. A few seconds can destroy a pump or element and ruin a brew day.

 

[jeffmeh]

Personally, I favor a switched main contactor that feeds the entire panel (like in Kal's design). The switch could be a big mushroom button, a regular push button, a rotary switch, etc. I don't think it is really that difficult to throw the switch regardless of its form. Bear in mind that the hot lines before the switch and contactor are going to be hot whenever the panel is plugged in, but a properly wired panel should be plenty safe, and a simple means to cut all power to the remainder of the panel enables a quick way to protect the devices if necessary.

And yes, if a panel were to go up in flames I would get the hell away from it and throw a breaker or pull a plug.