E-BIAB Build with a twist

[highland_brewer]

After quite a while brewing on my 3 vessel HERMS (20 gallon vessels) system and having ok results with doing smaller batches. I had thought about doing some sort of smaller system.

I got a ROBOBREW and liked the simplicity of it, BUT I am concerned about the longevity of it and you really can't do true no sparge BIAB with it due to the size limitations of the vessel.

So I decided to build a multi-purpose E-BIAB system.

My goal is to upgrade my current boil kettle in the process of the build as well. I have been wanting to ditch the non-stainless steel element for a long time now, but never pulled the trigger.

So here is my plan. I am going with a smaller Bayou Classic kettle (1144 W/Basket) some might say it is small for a BIAB system, and I might tend to agree with them if I did not have a larger system to do bigger beers with. I want a system that is small enough to take with me to a Homebrew club group brew day and be able to plug into any 15 amp wall outlet and brew with the rest of the club.

So here is what I have so far.

You will notice a few things. First off I am using a Inkbird IPB-16 for the 120V configuration. I did the pump modification to it.


In order to accomplish the "convertible" part of the system I am going with TC elements from Brewhardware. This will allow me to swap the 1650 Watt element out with a 5500 Watt element at will.

I am also attempting to keep the 120V configuration cost down for anyone that is interested in a similar system. In keeping with the low cost theme I am using a $24 Amazon solar pond pump. Don't know how long it will last... We will find out.

I wanted to experiment with both options options for the TC element connection so I got both a weldless and a Solder version. I wanted to see how difficult the solder version is and based on the curvature of the kettle side, I will be installing this in my big system kettle. Which is ok because I wanted to build the smaller system with minimal tools and make it a more approachable system for beginners.

You might have noticed the "lid and ladle" in the initial photo, they too have a purpose in this build. I have looked at most of the systems out there and I am not really enthused about the options available. Most are mounted really high in the kettle through the top lid and produce a fine spray. I don't want to start a whole HSA discussion!! Lets just say I did not like the design of those for multiple reasons.

My first project on the build was to set about building a recirculating assembly for the system. Don't ask me why I started there, but that is where I started.

I came up with what I think is a pretty good design that will minimize any aeration and prevent channeling.




So that is where the progress stops for now. Please feel free to comment with any suggestions or questions.

OH almost forgot... The 5500 watt element is a monstrosity!! After getting it I found out there is no way I am going to get it to fit in the kettle. So here is the solution I came up with for that. A TC extension from brewers hardware! will give me just enough room (at least I am pretty sure it will) to fit the 5500 Watt element in the 11 gallon kettle.

More to come!!!!!

 

[cegan09]

I've used a similar pump for a while now. the tan one on amazon. it works great, and has held up well. My only comment is make sure you have a screen on your pickup. It's intolerant of ingesting grains. If you happen to lose some grains from your bag and they get to the pump you'll waste a lot of time stopping the pump, pulling it, and cleaning it out.

looks like a cool lower budget build.

 

[highland_brewer]

Thanks for the tips on the pump!! It will be interesting to see the time differences in the time to hear to mash in temps and from mash out to boil. 5500 watt vs 1650 watt.

 

[cegan09]

For sure. I've seen people say that 1650W is fine for 5 gallon batches but I had to insulate the crap out of my kettle with two 1500W elements to get times to a reasonable level. I suspect that's because i'm outside though, and the added factor of wind makes it harder to keep all the heat in the kettle.

I'm also curious to see how that extension on the 5500W element works out. Part of me says the confined space may "trap" wort there and you might see some scorching. But at the same time it's not that long of a tube, and fluids do find a way to move around when heating. I'm betting it will be fine.

 

[highland_brewer]

For sure. I've seen people say that 1650W is fine for 5 gallon batches but I had to insulate the crap out of my kettle with two 1500W elements to get times to a reasonable level. I suspect that's because i'm outside though, and the added factor of wind makes it harder to keep all the heat in the kettle.

I'm also curious to see how that extension on the 5500W element works out. Part of me says the confined space may "trap" wort there and you might see some scorching. But at the same time it's not that long of a tube, and fluids do find a way to move around when heating. I'm betting it will be fine.

I had some concerns about scorching. But it is a ultra low wattage density element so we'll see.

 

[Chino_Brews]

I'm really excited for this series. I'm not sure I'd call 11 gal a "small" system (7 gal nominal batch size?), but perhaps when compared to 20 gal kettles it is. Certainly not when compared to a 2.5 gal batch size system.

Are you going to publish a parts list and cost at the end? I'm interested in the low(er) cost aspect of this.

The other thing that's timely is the idea of swapping 5500W and 1650W elements. Would you use a different control panel for the 5500W element? I like the idea of using the cheap IPB-16, but I'm wondering if you would ever consider building a dual voltage panel for this system.

 

[highland_brewer]

I'm really excited for this series. I'm not sure I'd call 11 gal a "small" system (7 gal nominal batch size?), but perhaps when compared to 20 gal kettles it is. Certainly not when compared to a 2.5 gal batch size system.

Are you going to publish a parts list and cost at the end? I'm interested in the low(er) cost aspect of this.

The other thing that's timely is the idea of swapping 5500W and 1650W elements. Would you use a different control panel for the 5500W element? I like the idea of using the cheap IPB-16, but I'm wondering if you would ever consider building a dual voltage panel for this system.

I will definitely be publishing all of the information. Parts lists etc. The IPB-16 COULD be used but there would be some serious modifications that would need to happen. The PID will handle it BUT... no heatsink is a bad thing. Also the wiring would need to be upgraded for the element etc. By the time you got all of that sorted out you could probably build a kit from E-brew supply for cheaper. My plan is to use my existing 30 amp HERMS panel for the 5500 watt version. Since I do not use my boil PID as much other than a PWM control for boil. I can autotune it to control the BIAB system and it will not have any negative effects on the PWM for boil on the big system. Oh and this is also going to be documented on video as well.

Cheers!
Brian

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

My only advise would be to ditch the basket. I used a basket and bag for a long time. There is not enough flow with both. I was getting at least a 10 deg difference from inside the basket/bag to the outside where the element is. Almost like two separate water masses
I also tried to recirculate with the little brown pump. Tiny pump like yours with not much flow. Even with that pump it would drain the outside of the basket and overflow the inside within minutes creating nothing but a headache...again to much restriction with both basket and bag.

I ditched the basket and all works well....Pretty much just as easy to hoist just the bag without the basket

 

[highland_brewer]

My only advise would be to ditch the basket. I used a basket and bag for a long time. There is not enough flow with both. I was getting at least a 10 deg difference from inside the basket/bag to the outside where the element is. Almost like two separate water masses
I also tried to recirculate with the little brown pump. Tiny pump like yours with not much flow. Even with that pump it would drain the outside of the basket and overflow the inside within minutes creating nothing but a headache...again to much restriction with both basket and bag.

I ditched the basket and all works well....Pretty much just as easy to hoist just the bag without the basket

That is interesting. I would have t ask what type of bag were you using. I only say the because High-Gravity brewing sells something similar to what I am building using the basket? I have not use the system yet, but my thought is if you use a fine mesh bag you will have a problem like that. I will report on my findings of course.

Thanks
Brian

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

That is interesting. I would have t ask what type of bag were you using. I only say the because High-Gravity brewing sells something similar to what I am building using the basket? I have not use the system yet, but my thought is if you use a fine mesh bag you will have a problem like that. I will report on my findings of course.

Thanks
Brian

I use a Wilser bag that a good portion of the forum uses...its not the bag.
My basket looked identical to yours. My bet is your not going to get the flow you need with both. Your not going to ruin your batch if it doesn't work. The beer will turn out ok you just wont be able to recirculate. watch it CLOSE so you don't overflow your basket. I still don't recirculate and find no need to.

 

[mneilson]

Thanks for documenting this, Brian. This was exactly the kind of system that I was thinking about making (modular, capable of both 120/240 electric and propane).

 

[jonestrada]

Following.

 

[bowserm]

Brian, how long does it take to go from mash temp to boil with the 1650W element? I’m looking into something like this for myself and looking online seems like I need either 2 of them installed or a bigger (4600W 240V element )

I just don’t know if you can install 2 1500W elements into a 10G kettle

 

[cegan09]

I just don’t know if you can install 2 1500W elements into a 10G kettle

Sure you can. I have two in an 8.5 gallon. On mine I soldered on two TC fittings opposite each other on the kettle, then slightly bent each element so they didn't hit each other. I'm talking a 5 degree bend tops. Works great.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Will 1650 watts boil in a 44 bayou classic kettle? I have that kettle and 2000w is like watching grass grow and the boil is barely a boil ime.

 

[bowserm]

@cegan09 Do you use a false bottom so the bag does not burn?

That way the false bottom sits over the element ?

There is so much stuff on the internet, and while I am great with computers, I’m not very good with electrical so I’m kind of hesitant to go electric. I don’t want to blow myself up

Edit: for some reason the quote button doesn’t work on mobile?....

 

[Mike Page]

Following. Can you post a link of the pump you bought? I looked on amazon and couldn't find it.

 

[highland_brewer]

Following. Can you post a link of the pump you bought? I looked on amazon and couldn't find it.

Sure it is right here
https://goo.gl/6iMkQg

 

[highland_brewer]

@cegan09 Do you use a false bottom so the bag does not burn?

That way the false bottom sits over the element ?

There is so much stuff on the internet, and while I am great with computers, I’m not very good with electrical so I’m kind of hesitant to go electric. I don’t want to blow myself up

Edit: for some reason the quote button doesn’t work on mobile?....

The basket works as a false bottom. It keeps the grain bag up off of the element.

 

[highland_brewer]

Will 1650 watts boil in a 44 bayou classic kettle? I have that kettle and 2000w is like watching grass grow and the boil is barely a boil ime.

I hope so. I have a Robobrew and it is only 1500 watts and it boils fine. HOWEVER... it has a little less thermal mass.

 

[highland_brewer]

Brian, how long does it take to go from mash temp to boil with the 1650W element? I’m looking into something like this for myself and looking online seems like I need either 2 of them installed or a bigger (4600W 240V element )

I just don’t know if you can install 2 1500W elements into a 10G kettle

I will be finding out for sure. I will be documenting all of the details.

 

[mj1angier]

I have a spreadsheet that lets you plug in watts, gal, temps.... to get your boil time. But I can figure out how to upload it here. The upload file only wants photo files

Edit: got it

 

[cegan09]

@cegan09 Do you use a false bottom so the bag does not burn?

That way the false bottom sits over the element ?

There is so much stuff on the internet, and while I am great with computers, I’m not very good with electrical so I’m kind of hesitant to go electric. I don’t want to blow myself up

Edit: for some reason the quote button doesn’t work on mobile?....

I do not use a false bottom with my system, though I have considered it. I have a RIMS setup for mash, so my process is to heat the mash water with the RIMS and a single kettle element. Then when I get to temp turn off the kettle element, drape the bag in, add grain, and continue with only the RIMS. Once mash is done you can remove the bag and flip on both kettle elements to heat for boil. Ultimately I didn't want to lose space for grain in my already too small kettle, that's the biggest reason I don't have a false bottom.

But there's many different ways to approach this. The way Highland Brewer is approaching this looks great. Basket will keep the bag out of harms way. If you decided you didn't want a basket at all you could add a false bottom and just use a bag.

 

[highland_brewer]

Sorry for the lack of updates. Crazy stuff going on.. But I will share what I have got so far.

Got the element ported in. Used a carbide holesaw from Brewhardware, cut like butter. On of the things I did that I have video of but not photos is I attached a sharpie to the bottom of the basket and dropped it into the kettle and gave it a spin to mark a line. The thickness of the sharpie gave me about a 1/4" clearance from that line to the bottom of the kettle. transferred the measurements to the outside and used them to determine the max height I could install to. Should be able to faintly see the marks inside the kettle.

The extension, for the 5500watt element worked well and gave plenty of space to prevent the element from hitting the kettle. I did have some concerns about the element being that far inside of the extension. BUT I did get my solder on TC fitting on the 20 gallon kettle and found that element heating does not occur until almost where the element wraps back around.

You can see an example in this photo of where the heating starts on the element. (this is in my big kettle after a brewday.

 

[highland_brewer]

Here is the outside of the kettle with each of the elements installed.

 

[TeamAshBrewing]

I'm really excited for this series. I'm not sure I'd call 11 gal a "small" system (7 gal nominal batch size?), but perhaps when compared to 20 gal kettles it is. Certainly not when compared to a 2.5 gal batch size system.

Are you going to publish a parts list and cost at the end? I'm interested in the low(er) cost aspect of this.

The other thing that's timely is the idea of swapping 5500W and 1650W elements. Would you use a different control panel for the 5500W element? I like the idea of using the cheap IPB-16, but I'm wondering if you would ever consider building a dual voltage panel for this system.

I like your profile pic Chino.

Brew. Drink. Repeat
Chris

 

[highland_brewer]

I did get the RTD probe from Auber installed and the Weldless outlet ball valve installed as well. Honestly had dismal results trying to get the 1650 watt element to boil 6 gallons of water. Went back tot he drawing board and ordered some neoprene sheeting and made an insulation jacket for it.

After installing the insulation and leaving the lid on while bringing up to boil. I was able to go from 43f to boil in 1hr and 40 min. Seems like a long time but you really don't go from tap temp to boil when you brew. i just wanted to see what it would do.

I did the same test with the 5500 watt element and went from 43f to 170 in 17 minutes and reached full boil in about 28 minutes on 7 gallons.

I am still working on the basket supports but should have a video on the whole thing out soon and brewing a batch on it as well.

 

[ihavenonickname]

Great thread - looking forward to the video on this, thanks!