I'm not even sure it can be called a "proper" Belgian yeast. The name "abbey" is certainly misplaced, in my personal opinion. I just tasted my tripel which I fermented with BE-256. (Prematurely, after 6 weeks. I was going to let it mature for 3 months but I'm having a major patience failure right now.) So far I'm disappointed. The beer came out much stronger than I anticipated due to the high attenuation (from 1.086 all the way down to 1.004) so alcohol is fairly pronounced, but not hot or sharp. But even though I fermented at a fairly low temperature for an ale like this (I started at 18C and ramped it up to 19C over the course of 2 days, then left it there) there is nothing on the palate but banana and diacetyl. Maybe more time will improve it, but so far I'm not a real fan of this yeast.
At least it's nice in sub 3% session beer., So if your got something left, you know what to use it for.
Interesting read. Thanks for sharingAlso, per the genetic data, Whitbread had 6 wet production strains and other dry variants of the B strain. Are we oblivious to the fact that Whitbread yeast isn't just the A and B strain. And Charles Wells uses a Whitbread dry derivative, per the old article in Journal of Brewing. And, lastly, in my own experience running tests on different yeast while looking at hop oils, S-04 is a high lactic yeast via HPLC. And now to drink another 16 oz of coffee and get some work done....
It does indeed attenuate like there's no tomorrow, leaving no maltotriose at all, which means only dextrins contribute to the beer's body and allowing you to create beers with the starting gravity of a small black hole that still come out very drinkable. However, I would hesitate to call this typical for a Belgian high gravity yeast. The attenuation of, say, WLP540 (originally taken from the Rochefort trappist brewery strain) is far more moderate, which creates a beer far closer to what I know as the genuine Belgian profile. I do know that in the US most Belgian styles are currently being presented in American presentations of the style, so BE-256 may be more appropriate there, but as far as the "native" Belgian beers are concerned, such a high attenuation is not typical. It is convenient for the brewer, of course, since other Belgian yeasts can take far too much time to ferment the beer out all the way, leading to overcarbonated bottle conditioned beers, but with BE-256, done is done. So from a commercial brewing standpoint the fermentation kinetics of BE-256 are preferable and give the brewer much greater control over the the final product, creating a far more stable beer. My biggest gripe with BE-256, other than the need to ferment unusually cool to prevent a banana explosion, is that it's POF negative which, in my opinion, immediately rules it out as an Abbey style yeast.
BE-256 is indeed a great yeast for that sort of style! And that's exactly it: I'm not saying it's a bad yeast, because it isn't! It's just not an Abbey yeast. But then, in the past Fermentis positioned S-33 as a yeast suitable for Belgian styles, while it's really EDME yeast. Go figure.
Which is interesting, because in practiice the attenuation of both yeasts are often pretty much the same. The differences in specified attenuation (825 vs 90%) in most worts BE-256 happy ferments all the way down from 1.080 or so to 1.004 (i.e. 95% attenuation). So only in dextrinous worts these yeasts would show significant differences in performance. But the idea with Belgian beers is to mash cool so as to maximize wort fermentability. However, for a Saison yeast this would be appropriate, Saisons traditionally having been brewed with non-Barley grains in the mix.
I've got M47 listed as repacked Fermentis T-58 which is not a diastaticus variant.
Isn't BE-134 a little too rich in spicy phenols for a Golden Strong ale? From what I understand, Golden Strong ale yeasts tend to be either POF- or have a muted phenol profile. Duvel (which pretty much has defined that style category single-handedly) is a good example: the spicy phenols are there, but only just.
Yup, I'm experimenting. I don't try to nail a style, I'm brewing for what I like to drink (and FWIW, I don't care for Duvel too much!). Mostly, a dry, crisp, and tasty beer.
I've got M47 listed as repacked Fermentis T-58 which is not a diastaticus variant.
Unfortunately Lallemand seems to be the only yeast supplier providing diastaticus information at this time (neither Lallemand nor Mangrove Jack specify it as part of their regular product data) so the diastaticus classification would indeed be helpful in identifying yeasts, if only everyone would supply complete and conclusive product data...
I seriously doubt it, Dave. Looking at the specs, M47 is positioned as a Belgian style yeast, has a temperature range of 18-25 C, an apparent attenuation of 73-77% and a medium to high flocculation. WB-06 is positioned as a Weizen yeast, has a temperature range of 12-25 C, an attenuation specified at 86% (but being a diastaticus variant in practice you can easily reach an apparent attenuation of 90% or more) and has a low flocculation. So they don't line up at all.
Are you saying Belle Saison is the same strain (dried) as Wyeast 3711?
No, but Mangrove Jack's M29 "French Saison" is, and also makes (IMO) a very fine Golden Strong. (Also Dark Strong.) Not surprisingly since there appears to be agreement that it and Belle Saison are basically dry versions of 3711.
Genetically, maybe, but it has the fermentation kinetics and ester/phenol flavour profile of a Weizen yeast and is excellently suited for brewing that style. Just about all craft breweries here use WB-06 for Weizen. So if it looks, walks, quacks and tastes like a duck...
In the most recent version of their data sheet (V6) they still specify M47 a Belgian Abbey yeast with "exceptional" levels of fruity esters and low levels of phenols, 73-77% attenuation, 8% alcohol tolerance and level 5 (on a scale of 1-5) attenuation, 18-25°C. I'm not seeing WB-06 here. T-58 is still the closest one for my money.
M29 = Belle Saison, but are these in fact dried 3711 or do they just perform very similarly?
That should be interesting. Please keep us posted!
Hello I just made my first batch and I want to know if Red Star Active Dry Yeast is the right yeast to use and how long in 2liters plastic bottles if I made it Last Saturday bottling after the yeast and setting them under the cold porch
Genetically, maybe, but it has the fermentation kinetics and ester/phenol flavour profile of a Weizen yeast and is excellently suited for brewing that style. Just about all craft breweries here use WB-06 for Weizen. So if it looks, walks, quacks and tastes like a duck...
Genetically, maybe, but it has the fermentation kinetics and ester/phenol flavour profile of a Weizen yeast and is excellently suited for brewing that style. Just about all craft breweries here use WB-06 for Weizen. So if it looks, walks, quacks and tastes like a duck...
).
I'm in South Africa (the backside of the world, by most accounts) and I agree that a South African brewed Weizen (almost invariably with WB-06) is not on par with imported bottles of German Hefeweizen. That said, it's the closest thing Fermentis supplies, and since Fermentis has the entire SA market for dried brewing yeast cornered (mostly because Lallemand's local distributor doesn't seem interested in selling these yeasts and Lallemand doesn't seem interested in changing that) WB-06 is pretty much what we've got. Some larger microbreweries (millibreweries, rather) in the Cape probably use liquid strains since their products are a lot better, but else in the country it's all WB-06.
Well, that's pretty much a rite of passage here, isn't it?
It does indeed have its drawbacks. However, it is definitely possible to brew a decent Weizen with it. Most brewers use 2nd and/or 3rd generation WB-06 which suggests that the drying process may play a role here. Most agree, however, that if you want to make a Kristallweizen with it, filtering is a *****.
Yes, i also get these flavours but heavily muted compared to the good saisons I had. Those where bombs of yeast flavour, whereas belle is just a small hint of it in comparison. I tried fermenting it high, low, high og, low og... Just stays muted in flavour.
