Dry Hopping

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rmcgill

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Ok,

Nearly time to dry hop my IPA.

My recipe calls for .67 oz magnum, .67 crystal, .67 citra to dry hop

How many days should I dry hop these?

Also if I dry hop say 3-5 days and pull out the hops would it be ok to have beer sit in my fermination bucket a few days if i get busy with work and bottle a few days after dry hopping?

Thanks for any feedback
 
I'd dry hop for 2 weeks then bottle. It's okay if you leave it longer. I've left beer dry hopping in the secondary for more than that because I couldn't bottle and the beer is fine.
 
some people will complain if you dryhop too long, you get grassy notes.

i've not experienced this yet, however, different kinds of hops may vary....

i'd say 10-14 days is the safe zone for sure though.
 
ok good to know... everyone is recommending a little longer then I was thinking so 7- 10 days should be perfect for me to bottle
 
7-14 days is the usual time frame for a single stage dryhop. You will be fine with that schedule if you want great aroma in an American IPA.

No need to measure .67 oz. increments. Figure 0.50 - 0.65 oz. dryhops per gallon of beer on average for non-Imperial IPAs. For example, a 4 gallon batch would require anywhere from 2.0 - 2.6 oz. total. Maybe more if you feel like being liberal. Maybe less if you're more conservative.
 
Generally speaking 5-7 days is more than adequate as there is really no further release of compounds beyond a week, Pellets will take less time, leaf hops more. It is recommended that the dry hopping be done right before you plan on bottling/kegging, so that the aromas and flavors do not fade prior to packaging
 

Can anyone prove that dry hopping is more efficient if left for 10-14 days? I'm sure you wouldn't notice much difference in taste or aroma with a 5 day dry hop or a 10 day dry hop. Pellet hops disintegrate almost immediately in a dry hop...very likely they don't take long to impart their aroma to the beer.
 
I didn't say you will get more aroma in 10-14 days, I said that 7-14 days is the most common practice. But if someone is talking about the science behind it and referencing release of compounds then I want to see proof.

Pellets drop completely at about 8-12 days for me. Around that time frame, the top of the beer is clear of debris. I'm no scientist, however I'm pretty sure the dropout doesn't mean the pellets stop working completely.
 

Seriously???????????

This is a conversation that has been covered in detail in numerous threads on this site, in Palmer's book, In Daniel's book, in Strong's book and in Papazian's. I am only stating the general consensus of brewers with far more experience than myself. I have had with several commercial craft brewers that dry hop their product as well.

That being said, if longer times work better for you than so be it, I have brewed my house Pale and IPA doing both with longer and shorter dry hop times and have yet to tell the difference between the two. The only difference I can substantiate is that when I have bottled directly after the dry hop period the flavors and aromas were better retained than after extended conditioning times.

As with anything in this hobby we call brewing, there are very few rights and wrongs and the science will change with whomever you choose to speak with. Find what works for you and your system and go with it.
 
Seriously???????????

Yes... Seriously. When someone makes a scientific claim that the release of beneficial compounds in dryhops die off completely within 5-7 days, I want to see proof. This is certainly not what I have experienced.

This is a conversation that has been covered in detail in numerous threads on this site, in Palmer's book, in Daniel's book, in Strong's book and in Papazian's.

This site contains a lot of "opinion", but I would like to see a quote from any one of those authors regarding your initial statement... That dryhopping beyond 5-7 days is basically useless.

I am only stating the general consensus of brewers with far more experience than myself.

The general consensus that I have heard, is that the typical dryhop time frame is 7-14 days. This doesn't mean you must dryhop within this range, but 7-14 days is typically what is most recommended. The 3-5 day dryhop seems to be an exclusive recommendation of a lot of members on homebrewtalk.com who are afraid of grassiness, but I have not heard such persistant advice over at beeradvocate.com, in zymurgy, at professional breweries, etc. I have personally never experienced grassiness in any of my IPAs, and I have even dryhopped for up to 3 weeks in the past.

I have had with several commercial craft brewers that dry hop their product as well.

Good for you. So have I. But you don't know how long they dry hop, or if they dry hop in one, two, three, or four stages.

That being said, if longer times work better for you than so be it, I have brewed my house Pale and IPA doing both with longer and shorter dry hop times and have yet to tell the difference between the two.

There are a lot of intricacies that can differentiate individual brewer methods in regard to the total aroma of a beer... Not just dryhop time frame. You can't really use the shorter dryhop vs. longer dryhop excuse to pinpoint total aroma in an IPA.
 
bobbrews said:
Yes... Seriously. When someone makes a scientific claim that the release of beneficial compounds in dryhops die off completely within 5-7 days, I want to see proof. This is certainly not what I have experienced.

This site contains a lot of "opinion", but I would like to see a quote from any one of those authors regarding your initial statement... That dryhopping beyond 5-7 days is basically useless.

The general consensus that I have heard, is that the typical dryhop time frame is 7-14 days. This doesn't mean you must dryhop within this range, but 7-14 days is typically what is most recommended. The 3-5 day dryhop seems to be an exclusive recommendation of a lot of members on homebrewtalk.com who are afraid of grassiness, but I have not heard such persistant advice over at beeradvocate.com, in zymurgy, at professional breweries, etc. I have personally never experienced grassiness in any of my IPAs, and I have even dryhopped for up to 3 weeks in the past.

Good for you. So have I. But you don't know how long they dry hop, or if they dry hop in one, two, three, or four stages.

There are a lot of intricacies that can differentiate individual brewer methods in regard to the total aroma of a beer... Not just dryhop time frame. You can't really use the shorter dryhop vs. longer dryhop excuse to pinpoint total aroma in an IPA.

Wow!

Quite the rant, hope you feel better :)

I didn't realize the term generally speaking implied scientific proof or evidence.....

You apparently are a far wiser, master brewer than myself, I will be sure to read all your posts for more informed guidance in the future.

Cheers!
 
Well, half of that rant was your own words :)

I get the "generally speaking" part... what I don't get is the "more than adequate as there is really no further release of compounds beyond a week" part... I have never seen or heard this published or scientifically researched anywhere.

So I wanted to know what proof this was based upon... or if you just heard it through the grapevine as an opinionated recommendation on this site. A lot of stuff is regurgitated that's all... without any evidence that it actually supersedes competing advice. There is also a lot more that comes into play regarding aroma than dryhop time frame.
 
Not getting involved in the fight here, just wanted to help the OP with some anecdotal experience.

I've dry hopped two recent brews with drastically different results. I made an IPA that I dry hopped with 1.5 oz Simcoe for 7 days and experience beautiful results with no grassiness and plenty of big piney aroma. More recently I dry hopped a Pale Ale with 1.5 oz Amarillo and 1.5 oz Cascade for 7 days and experienced a whole bunch of grassiness and chlorophyll flavors.

Now I'm not going to get into any science because I don't know for a fact, but in my experience I'd dry hop for a shorter period of time for a greater amount of hops. I'm making the same Pale Ale recipe, only this time I'm dry hopping with 3oz Zythos for only 5 days. Hopefully this reduces any grassy flavors. They do happen.

And as for maybe not having time to bottle, I'd say schedule a definite bottling date that you know you won't miss, and dry hop the corresponding days before that. It won't hurt your beer to sit on primary a bit longer, but it could hurt to sit with dry hops too long.

Just my $.02, please don't hurt me.
 
proof proof proof....

the OP asked for advice not proof, lets not deviate this post from the original intent, the people wanting to give proof and receive proof should take it to personal messages.
 
I disagree. We all benefit when someone calls out unsubstantiated claims. Anecdotal evidence, while extremely helpful, can be misleading. Too many variables and far too small a sample size.

And disagreement <> fight.
 
So I got called out on the mat today for using the term "generally speaking " and "compounds dropping out" and using 5-7 days as my bench mark.......

Somewhat confrontational in its expression which was not appreciated. I was asked to prove something so here goes...........

Op's note: All information I am providing has been garnered from various publications that I will reference where needed, all of my opinions will be stated as IMO

While it is a provable science to base utilization factors of hops in the boil it is impossible to "prove" the same when it comes to dry hopping. In the boil there is isomerization and utilization which can be quantitatively calculated with AA%, boil time, etc. in lab environments. In dry hopping there is none of that destructive action on the hop, it is simply the release of volatile oils and resins of the hops into the beer as it sits. The variables involved are too many such as quantity, variety, pellet or whole, freshness of product, temperature of the beer, presence of yeast to name a few. (Palmer, Daniels, Strong)

IMO: I believe that both myself and bobbrews are both correct and incorrect in our statements.

Palmer: "Dry Hopping
Hops can also be added to the fermenter for increased hop aroma in the final beer. This is called "dry hopping" and is best done late in the fermentation cycle. If the hops are added to the fermenter while it is still actively bubbling, then a lot of the hop aroma will be carried away by the carbon dioxide. It is better to add the hops (usually about a half ounce per 5 gallons) after bubbling has slowed or stopped and the beer is going through the conditioning phase prior to bottling. The best way to utilize dry hopping is to put the hops in a secondary fermenter, after the beer has been racked away from the trub and can sit a couple of weeks before bottling, allowing the volatile oils to diffuse into the beer. Many homebrewers put the hops in a nylon mesh bag - a Hop Bag, to facilitate removing the hops before bottling."


Note: Palmer states that a couple weeks is the general time for dry hopping, however he also references using .5oz per 5 gallon batch. With this assumption i would agree that for that small amount of hops extended time would be beneficial.

IMO: With the experience I have in brewing many batches of the same beer, my house APA and IPA I have experimented with both 5-7 day and 7-14 day dry hopping schedules. As a practice I ONLY use whole hops for this purpose. I also tend to use a minimum of 2oz for any dry hop and occasionally will use more. Beers that I have dry hopped longer than 7 days have produced no noticeable increase in hop flavor or aroma than those that were done for 5-7. Several batches with these rates produced grassy notes when dry hopped for close to 14 days, while the grassy notes dissipated over time it was not desirable.

I do not have the specific reference on hand but there is also conversation regarding the temperature at which the hops are being added to the vessel. There is evidence that warmer temperatures will increase the rate at which the compounds are released and a decrease in vessels that are colder. This is also evident in the fact that most lagers are not dry hopped as frequently as ales due to temperatures and the time required to achieve the results desired. I believe I read this in an article by Pyle.

IMO: I believe today's homebrewing population today to be big on hops, those that do not necessarily prescribe to style, dry hop as a means to achieve those big hop aroma beers and use more hops than necessary. In addition, many home brewing people while monitoring fermentation temperatures are dry hopping at more ambient temperatures. I, myself am included in this. Because of my experience with different hopping strategies and the temperatures my vessels are usually in I find that my 5-7 days works very well without pushing the limit of experiencing unnecessary off flavors from too much time and hop.

To dry hop in primary or secondary or Pellet or Whole:
Pyle: " dry hopping early in the fermentation phase may result in hops on the bottom of the fermenter being covered with yeast, which results in inefficient extraction of aroma. Another consideration of timing dry hopping is with infection risk. Hops in contact with boiling wort are effectively sanitized. Addition of dry hops after primary fermentation allows them to contact a wort/beer with some alcohol and less sugar, which prevents infections from getting a foothold."
Pyle:"the pellet hops can be easily covered by yeast falling out of suspension, so they should be added after virtually all fermentation activity has ceased, and a good amount of the yeast has fallen. Finally, it is worth mentioning that, for many, pellets are not well regarded for dry hopping because the pelletization process is known to be very rough on the volatile aromatic compounds which the brewer is attempting to capture. Others swear by them, claiming the pre-burst lupulin glands provide more aroma to the beer."
Palmer: "It is better to add the hops (usually about a half ounce per 5 gallons) after bubbling has slowed or stopped and the beer is going through the conditioning phase prior to bottling. The best way to utilize dry hopping is to put the hops in a secondary fermenter, after the beer has been racked away from the trub and can sit a couple of weeks before bottling, allowing the volatile oils to diffuse into the beer."

IMO: I apologize if the interpretation of my original reply to the original OP was perceived to be statement of science. I did not appreciate the confrontational way my post was replied to. In most of my posts I either try to reference my own experiences and I always preface, especially to the new brewers out there that there is no right or wrong, it's what works best for you and the system you brew on. I hope that the information I have tried to reference and provide has clarified my position as well as informed other people about things they may not have been aware of. If you do not have any of these author's books I recommend them as a step in the learning process.

In summary and IMO to recap my original reply to the original OP: If you tend to use a large amount of hops to dry hop and do so at ambient temps I believe 5-7 days to be adequate. If you use less hops and/or dry hop at lower fermentation temperatures than go for the longer 7-14 day period. If you have success with pellets, use pellets and if you prefer whole hops than use those. Take notes of what you do and tweak your methods accordingly.

Cheers!
 
So I got called out on the mat today...Somewhat confrontational in its expression which was not appreciated.

I had no intention of offending, and for that I am sorry. But called out on the mat? Certainly. Nothing wrong with a sportsman-like debate so try not to take it personal.

While it is a provable science to base utilization factors of hops in the boil it is impossible to "prove" the same when it comes to dry hopping.

In general, there are not many real "set" rules for dryhopping an IPA. It mostly depends on preference. And even today, a lot about dryhopping is not fully understood by many homebrewers. If we all understood it completely then there would be no reason to debate the issue. So saying that the release of beneficial hop compounds dies off in 5-7 days tops is ridiculous. However, giving a simple suggestion based on your personal experiences, that 5-7 days has worked best for you, is absolutely fine.

Palmer states that a couple weeks is the general time for dry hopping, however he also references using .5oz per 5 gallon batch. With this assumption, I would agree that for that small amount of hops extended time would be beneficial.

Again, it depends on the beer, and what you're striving for in terms of hop character. 0.50 oz. for 5 gallons might be fine for a malt dominant APA, but it will barely scratch the surface (for many a hophead) in a hop dominant IPA. Also, Palmer is one of the greats... there's no denying that. But some advice is subjective and not based on science. Such advice also has the possibility of being seen as outdated. Palmer wrote this book in 1999. That big, bold IPA aroma we all know and love has come a LONG way since then. You say more than necessary. I say continue with the trend, and in some cases choose to "overload". It is reasonable for some people to say, "I can't take a beer that is too bitter" but, I've never met someone that said, "I absolutely hate a good smelling beer".

To dry hop in primary or secondary or Pellet or Whole:
Pyle: " dry hopping early in the fermentation phase may result in hops on the bottom of the fermenter being covered with yeast, which results in inefficient extraction of aroma. Another consideration of timing dry hopping is with infection risk. Hops in contact with boiling wort are effectively sanitized. Addition of dry hops after primary fermentation allows them to contact a wort/beer with some alcohol and less sugar, which prevents infections from getting a foothold.". The pellet hops can be easily covered by yeast falling out of suspension, so they should be added after virtually all fermentation activity has ceased, and a good amount of the yeast has fallen.

Pyle sounds like a DoDo bird to me. There is some truth to dryhops being slightly less effective when coated with yeast cells, but you can avoid this by not agitating the carboy and racking/bottling at the time the dryhops drop out of suspension. I dryhop in the primary all the time and my friends, myself, and competition judges have all made similar comments... that they could smell my beer from 3 feet away. They all loved that by the way. What you must realize is that brewers do things differently. Some would experience more of these issues if they racked/bottled 5 days after primary fermentation and were not careful to avoid agitating the carboy. Others who wait 3-4 weeks and are very careful not to disturb the trub are safe.

Also, by the time you dryhop you have beer... not wort at insane risk of infection. Risk of infection is slim to none. The alcohol, combined with A LOT of yeast cells help to stave off bacterial intruders. Hops, by the way, are sort of antiseptic in a sense. They're not very succeptible to bacteria. I've been dryhopping for a long time and I've never infected a beer with the inordinate amount of dryhops I use... even in a 3 week time frame. My intention here is not to boast... just to dispel rumors that doing the OPPOSITE of what Pyle recommends is not wrong in the slightest, and will still work very, very well - if not better in most cases depending on your procedure.

Finally, it is worth mentioning that, for many, pellets are not well regarded for dry hopping because the pelletization process is known to be very rough on the volatile aromatic compounds which the brewer is attempting to capture. Others swear by them, claiming the pre-burst lupulin glands provide more aroma to the beer[/I]."

I utterly and whole-heartedly disagree with this entire statement. If anything, pellets are IDEAL for dryhopping American IPAs. Myrcene is the Green Giant of Hop Aroma. Whole hops can have as much as 70% more myrcene than pellets of the same variety, but that difference is flipped when the wort is hopped as only 5% of myrcene is extracted from whole hops compared to 17% from pellets. 17% is still a low number, so by using more hops over a longer time frame may maximize the benefits. On average, pellets have a higher oil content than leaf hops, and pellets also release their oils quicker than leaf hops. Pyle has no clue what he's talking about and it really sounds like subjective opinion to me. Lupulin gland burst is just a cool sounding way of supporting his opinion.

Further evidence that pellets are awesome for dryhopping... Russian River's Pliny the Younger and Elder both use pellet hops to dryhop. Elder gets 0.65 - 0.75 oz. dryhops per gallon of beer. Younger gets 1.00 oz. dryhops per gallon of beer. Their dryhop regimen is staggered, and occurs in 3 to 4 stages. Look it up... this information is all available to you.

There are a lot of other matters that you touched upon which I either already agreed with, or didn't find reason to retort. Just know that I'm not attacking you... I'm simply trying to let you and others know that this statement is false until proven true: "The release of beneficial dryhop compounds die off in 5-7 days".

Cheers!
 
@bobbrews- thanks!
I enjoy a healthy debate as well and I know the evidence sited in some respects is dated as there is really very little present information available today other than forums. Some is fact, most is conjecture but it all goes back to individual experiences in brewing.

Forums are great but I also agree a lot of information is just regurgitated as well. Experience is the true teacher and as my final comments stated, every brewer will find and adapt things that work best for them and their system as well as their individual tastes for the beer they brew.

For my set up and my beer I stand by my original statement and I too have received great marks from judges in competitions. In some respects we will agree and in in others we will agree to disagree.

I appreciate the debate and I apologize for jacking the original Op's thread with this. Although I hope some of the information has helped him/her out in some way:)

Cheers to all !
 
I found this article on dry-hopping very interesting:

http://inhoppursuit.blogspot.com/2012/02/more-aroma-oil-faster-dry-hopsters-holy.html

I am going to try a 24 hr dry-hopping coming up on an ESB I have in the fermenter now. It needs another 3 weeks before I do so but I'll report back my findings. A friend of mine dry-hops his IPAs for about a week or two so we will compare notes. It won't be as "scientific" as this article though of course ;) However, I have definitely noticed grassy flavors on the longer dry-hopped beers he has made.
 
One thing I just noticed in that article I linked is that the researchers were continually agitating after dry-hopping so the data may be deceiving for us homebrewers. That's not something that I think most of us are capable of. But i do think it adds some weight to shorter dry-hopping as opposed to long periods in the secondary.
 
PhelanKA7 said:
One thing I just noticed in that article I linked is that the researchers were continually agitating after dry-hopping so the data may be deceiving for us homebrewers. That's not something that I think most of us are capable of. But i do think it adds some weight to shorter dry-hopping as opposed to long periods in the secondary.

Found the article interesting and I too noticed the same thing with the agitating. Curious to read the entire study. It's nice to see something current as most other information out there is over 10 years old.
 
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