Double Pitch or Yeast Cake?

[slcdawg]

I am fairly new at brewing (5 extract batches so far), but based on the wife's preference for hops plan to brew a lot of pales and IPAs. Would be nice to streamline a process where I keg a batch and then pour the new wort over the old yeast cake to save some time.

I'm looking at brewing two batches in a row that use the same yeast (US-04). The first a pale ale, the second an IPA. The second batch has a higher OG (1.066) and AHS recommends double pitching. FWIW, Mr Malty says 1.1 packets of 11g dry yeast.

I've read about the negatives of over-pitching - mostly a thin tasting beer. For higher gravity beers that suggest double pitching, can you just pitch directly over a yeast cake instead? I know I'm probably better off cleaning the yeast and reusing it - but looking for ways to make my process more efficient (i.e. less time cleaning, etc). If the styles of beer are the same, I wouldn't expect off flavors but do worry about over-pitching.

 

[rhamilton]

I always like to measure since some beers make bigger cakes than others. And if you like the beer, you'll want to recreate the batch and just having "rack onto an existing cake" means pretty much nothing in terms of actual measurement.

I reuse almost every batch of yeast by just pouring the strait trub back into sanitized White Labs vials. If the beer is ~1.050, I'll pitch two of my harvested vials. For every +0.020 in gravity, I'll add another vial.

 

[android]

and if you want to save the slurry, just use the mr. malty calculator for slurry, measure that amount out, and pitch it back into the beer once you aerate. i kinda like to put my beer into a clean fermenter, so i'll just rack it in and measure the yeast from the previous batch. even if i racked the other one to a keg or whatever, it'll be fine for a few days with the airlock on and a thin layer of beer over it while you brew up the next batch.

 

[DonMagee]

Your first beer is basically making a starter for you. So you can just rack on top of the yeast. I would however do as the above posters mentioned, or just make a fresh starter for this batch with the correct pitching amount.

 

[Golddiggie]

IF you're going to reuse yeast from the previous batch, you're better off (IMO/IME) at least washing/rinsing the yeast between batches. This allows you to remove a lot of the junk that also settles to the bottom of the fermenter. You'll also want to clean the fermenter between batches (sanitize too).

IMO, with dry yeast, why not just pitch fresh? It's cheap enough per pack. Plus, as Mr. Malty already told you, you can very often use just one packet per batch.

Personally, I use liquid yeast for my beers. I make starters for each batch so that I'm pitching as close to the cell count needed as possible. I'm about to try freezing some yeast for the first time. That way I can thaw out a tube, make my starters, and use the yeast moving forward (or until it's offered again). This is for one of the Private Collection strains from Wyeast. Otherwise, I'd just purchase a fresh packet of yeast to use for starters and such.

Also, I don't see you gaining any time for the yeast doing what it's going to, or time to clear, from using the cake. Plan to let the batch run as long as it takes and don't worry about it. Be smart about streamlining your processes. Don't do things that you think will be a streamline item, only to have it create other issues for you.

I'd rather have a batch take a few more hours to get going, then risk having to dump it. BTW, the batch I brewed yesterday was showing activity within 3-4 hours of pitching the yeast. At ~8-12 hours in, it was VERY active (Star San foam coming out of the airlock).

 

[WoodlandBrew]

I pour the trub into three or for mason jars and then pitch from one of the middle jars. I clean my bucket after saving the yeast, but I guess you wouldn't have to. If you pour off the yeast at least you'll be able to measure the amount of slury you are pitching.

in the past three months I've brewed four batches and only bought yeast once for them.

Here are some I saved recently
http://woodlandbrew.blogspot.com/2012/09/my-four-pet-yeasts.html

 

[rhamilton]

in the past three months I've brewed four batches and only bought yeast once for them.

Here are some I saved recently
http://woodlandbrew.blogspot.com/2012/09/my-four-pet-yeasts.html

Next time you harvest yeast, keep a jar of strait trub and have it as a backup to your washed yeast. It will keep for at least a year so when your washed yeast hits too many generations, restart with the trub and you can squeeze another lineage out of it. Keep saving trub in the same manner and you can almost never have to buy yeast and not worry about mutations. Granted each time you recycle, you get further and further from the 'original' strain.

 

[slcdawg]

Thanks for the replies. I think the morale of the thread is there are no shortcuts in making beer.

I'm still a little foggy on the parameter to use in Mr Malty's calculator if I wash the yeast. If I wash the yeast and pitch it the same day (2-3 hours after washing), it probably won't settle much (don't know for sure - I haven't done it yet). So would the Yeast Concentration setting on the calculator be close to a value of '1' for thin slurry?

 

[Golddiggie]

Thanks for the replies. I think the morale of the thread is there are no shortcuts in making beer.

I'm still a little foggy on the parameter to use in Mr Malty's calculator if I wash the yeast. If I wash the yeast and pitch it the same day (2-3 hours after washing), it probably won't settle much (don't know for sure - I haven't done it yet). So would the Yeast Concentration setting on the calculator be close to a value of '1' for thin slurry?

Harvest it for the batch following the next one. OR push your brew day out a week. IMO, better to delay, or use the slurry later, than try another shortcut.

 

[slcdawg]

Harvest it for the batch following the next one. OR push your brew day out a week. IMO, better to delay, or use the slurry later, than try another shortcut.

Why is this a shortcut and what is wrong with it cleaning and pitching on the same day? Numerous threads I have read on here suggest doing just that.

 

[Golddiggie]

Why is this a shortcut and what is wrong with it cleaning and pitching on the same day? Numerous threads I have read on here suggest doing just that.

You're rushing. Bad things tend to happen when home brewers try to rush things. IF you harvest the yeast, you need to make sure you actually have YEAST in the jar you'll be pitching. Without separating the yeast from the crud/trub, you won't be sure of what you're pitching. You could be pitching a slurry that's extremely low in yeast cell count/concentration. Which would be worse than just using a rehydrated packet of yeast.