Double IPA Feedback

[Punx Clever]

I'm a few months out of a local competition entry for IPA's and DIPA's and was hoping for some feedback. I've got a significant quantity of the hops in the recipe, so I'm focusing on those. Belma was a bust on a previous brew, so I figure using it for a bittering addition is best. The others will provide the flavor/aroma components through a whirlpool addition and two additional dry hop additions. Recipe is below:

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: King Lupulin DIPA
Brewer: Dempsey Smith
Asst Brewer:
Style: Imperial IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 6.00 gal
Boil Size: 7.94 gal
Estimated OG: 1.090 SG
Estimated Color: 5.9 SRM
Estimated IBU: 116.9 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
16 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 83.12 %
1 lbs Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 5.19 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 5.19 %
4.0 oz Acid Malt (3.0 SRM) Grain 1.30 %
1 lbs Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 5.19 %

5.00 oz Belma [9.40 %] (90 min) Hops 116.9 IBU

3.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] (15 min) (AHops -
3.00 oz Crystal [3.50 %] (15 min) (Aroma Hop-SteeHops -
3.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (15 min) (Aroma Hop-SteeHops -


1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (Dry Hop 14 days) Hops -
1.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] (Dry Hop 14Hops -
1.00 oz Crystal [3.50 %] (Dry Hop 14 days) Hops -

0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -
0.50 oz Crystal [3.50 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -
0.50 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] (Dry Hop 7 Hops -

2 Pkgs American Ale (Safale #US-05) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Temperature Mash, 1 Step, Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 18.25 lb
----------------------------
Temperature Mash, 1 Step, Light Body
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
75 min Saccharification Add 5.71 gal of water at 162.5 F 148.0 F
10 min Mash Out Heat to 168.0 F over 10 min 168.0 F


Water profile follows, built from RO and shooting for a dry, hoppy, pale yellow beer:

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[thehaze]

That's not a lot of hops for a Double IPA. Also, 5 oz Belma for bittering?

Belma works great for late additions and dry hopping. I would not waste it for bittering. I would waste Columbus for bittering due to the higher Alpha Acids content and the earhy/dank flavours.

For DIPAs, you should aim for 0.5 oz hops for 1 liter of beer. So for 20 liters/5 gallons, you should aim for around 10 oz. I personally would also do more late additions for a heavy hop forward beer. Late additions in the last 20 minutes of boil, for me at least, add some flavour depth, which I like in an IPA.

 

[aprichman]

I would cut back on the crystal and carapils - 10% of the grain bill is too much. Also your hop schedule could use some tweaking - I would target ~50 IBUs for the 60 minute addition and then focus on late additions. Move some of those 15 minute hops to a 5 minute and flameout addition.

I'm not a big fan of US05 or any dry yeast. I would recommend going with a liquid yeast that is more flocculant than US05 and building a starter.

 

[Punx Clever]

Thanks for the feedback.

As for the Belma, tried it in a different beer and it didn't do anything for me. I've got about 10 oz kicking around figured I ought to use it for something, so bittering charge it was.

Any idea how belma would play with Crystal and cascade as a flavor/aroma hop? I could easily swap the Columbus and Velma in this batch... hell, I had Columbus as the bittering charge until I remembered my belma

The other hops... the 3x3.0 oz additions are whirlpool/hop steep, not 15 minutes of boil.

Between the bittering charge and whirlpool I'm looking at 9+5=14 oz of hops in a 6 gallon batch. Do you mean to say more dry hops? Maybe bring those up to 2 oz of each for 14 days, then another 1oz of each for 7.

Grain bill... already looking at being on the bottom end of style as far as color goes. Think I should run crystal 20 instead and cut the amount by half or so?

I did end up putting together a 1L pilot batch of this using some dry extract... figure I'll get a single bomber that is ready before brew day for the comp.

 

[NeoBrew]

I would recommend boiling without hops for 30 minutes and make your first hop addition at 60 minutes remaining in the boil.

 

[Punx Clever]

I would recommend boiling without hops for 30 minutes and make your first hop addition at 60 minutes remaining in the boil.

Any particular reason?

 

[NeoBrew]

It is my understanding that boiling for 90 minutes primarily benefits in reducing DMS, as well as producing more carmelization of the malt. IMHO the additional time will tend to magnify the harshness of the bittering.

I say that with only my somewhat sketchy internet and self taught brew knowledge.

I've done some 90 minute boils. It didn't seem to make much difference in my beer. I do love a tasty hop filled IPA, but I don't favor the mouth puckering bitterness of some. So my tastes may differ from others. Something like a Bell's Two Hearted is about right for me in terms of bitterness.

 

[aprichman]

Boiling hops for 90 minutes will increase utilization and remove the vast majority of aromatic compounds from the hops - at 90 minutes you will mostly get pure bitterness. The "harshness" of the bitterness has more to do with the hop than the length of the boil. Bitterness qualities undeniably exist however there's still debate on what contributes to this quality. Belma has been observed to have a smooth bitterness so you should be fine in that regard. With that said 5 ounces is way too much for a bittering edition. 2 ounces would be much more appropriate - excessively bitter beers come across as soapy and are generally very unpleasant. I would absolutely go no higher than 2.5 ounces and that's if you want an intensely bitter beer.

For color I would recommend using a portion of Vienna (maybe 20% of the grist) which will contribute to color and add additional malt complexity without making the beer overly sweet. Personally I would cut the crystal and carapils to about a pound between the two. A darker crystal (60 or below) could also be used depending on the flavors you are looking for. I would use a half pound each of carapils and crystal 20. I've found that to be a nice addition for DIPAs.

Whirlpool looks good but I would maybe add a small addition at 5 minutes if you are whirlpooling at lower temperatures. At knockout temperatures I doubt it would make a significant difference.

No idea how Belma would play with Cascade - Belma is pretty commonly used in NE IPAs so it would probably be a nice addition to your hop bill for whirlpooling or dryhoping.

 

[Punx Clever]

It is my understanding that boiling for 90 minutes primarily benefits in reducing DMS, as well as producing more carmelization of the malt. IMHO the additional time will tend to magnify the harshness of the bittering.

I say that with only my somewhat sketchy internet and self taught brew knowledge.

I've done some 90 minute boils. It didn't seem to make much difference in my beer. I do love a tasty hop filled IPA, but I don't favor the mouth puckering bitterness of some. So my tastes may differ from others. Something like a Bell's Two Hearted is about right for me in terms of bitterness.

The 90 minute boil is mostly to get my efficiencies up where I would like them for a very much higher gravity beer than usual. I get about 87% efficiency from 1.060-ish beers, and being up in the 1.090 range (assuming 75%), the extra boil time will help.

Additionally, I was planning on the higher hop utilization. Looks like I only get 7 IBU more from the 90 minute boil though...

Boiling hops for 90 minutes will increase utilization and remove the vast majority of aromatic compounds from the hops - at 90 minutes you will mostly get pure bitterness. The "harshness" of the bitterness has more to do with the hop than the length of the boil. Bitterness qualities undeniably exist however there's still debate on what contributes to this quality. Belma has been observed to have a smooth bitterness so you should be fine in that regard. With that said 5 ounces is way too much for a bittering edition. 2 ounces would be much more appropriate - excessively bitter beers come across as soapy and are generally very unpleasant. I would absolutely go no higher than 2.5 ounces and that's if you want an intensely bitter beer.

For color I would recommend using a portion of Vienna (maybe 20% of the grist) which will contribute to color and add additional malt complexity without making the beer overly sweet. Personally I would cut the crystal and carapils to about a pound between the two. A darker crystal (60 or below) could also be used depending on the flavors you are looking for. I would use a half pound each of carapils and crystal 20. I've found that to be a nice addition for DIPAs.

Whirlpool looks good but I would maybe add a small addition at 5 minutes if you are whirlpooling at lower temperatures. At knockout temperatures I doubt it would make a significant difference.

No idea how Belma would play with Cascade - Belma is pretty commonly used in NE IPAs so it would probably be a nice addition to your hop bill for whirlpooling or dryhoping.

5 oz of belma with the AA in my supply puts me at 116 IBU's... for a DIPA on the high end of things (1.090 OG), that seems somewhat appropriate (high end of style is 120 IBU). 2-2.5 ounces puts me below minimum style guidelines (60 IBU's) even with a 90 minute hop boil.

Planned on doing the whirlpool at 175. I have an electric rig, so setting the kettle to actually hold 175 over the 15 minutes is not a problem at all.

-Break-

What I've gathered so far is that Columbus will provide a significant "dank" hoppyness to the beer. This may not be what I'm after. I could swap the Belma and Columbus... the Belma giving a little fruitiness to the flavor and aroma to work with the Cascade. Crystal sits out there providing some floral/spice notes.

A pound of crystal 10 and a pound of Carapils may make the beer too sweet... even with a long, low temperature mash. Need to look into vienna as a substitute for both... but run into color issues.

Keep the suggestions coming, they are much appreciated.