Double IPA advice/critique

[MrBlackrock]

Hi there.

Trying myself at a Double Ipa and would like any advice.

Here it is:

6.50 kg Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 77.8 %
0.90 kg Vienna Malt (Weyermann) (3.0 SRM) Grain 2 10.8 %
0.45 kg White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 3 5.4 %
0.25 kg Carafoam (2.0 SRM) Grain 4 3.0 %
0.25 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 5 3.0 %

28.00 g Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 27.5 IBUs
14.17 g Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 11.6 IBUs
0.50 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 8 -
28.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 9 6.3 IBUs
28.00 g Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 10 13.6 IBUs
28.00 g Amarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 11 4.2 IBUs
1.0 pkg California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) [35.49 ml] Yeast 12 -

28.00 g Amarillo [9.20 %] - Dry Hop 10.0 Days Hop 13 0.0 IBUs
28.00 g Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 10.0 Days Hop 14 0.0 IBUs

 

[mmahu]

Hello.

I would change the Pilsner Malt and the Vienna with Maris Otter. Drop Carafoam and stick to flaked wheat or white wheat, to give retention. You can keep the crystal malt, although there are better options for a DIPA.

Your IBUs are kinda low. Your dry hopping is not nearly enough for a regular IPA, so it will not cut it for a double IPA. It depends on your preferences, but personally shoot for 80-100 IBUs for DIPAs. I dry hop with around 8-12 oz, which is something between 175 and 350 gr of hops for 6 gal ( 22-23 l ).

Also, 10 days dry hopping seems so much, when you are only dry hopping with 2 oz. 5 days dry hopping it more than enough and will ensure brighter aromas.

 

[MrBlackrock]

Hello.

I would change the Pilsner Malt and the Vienna with Maris Otter. Drop Carafoam and stick to flaked wheat or white wheat, to give retention. You can keep the crystal malt, although there are better options for a DIPA.

Your IBUs are kinda low. Your dry hopping is not nearly enough for a regular IPA, so it will not cut it for a double IPA. It depends on your preferences, but personally shoot for 80-100 IBUs for DIPAs. I dry hop with around 8-12 oz, which is something between 175 and 350 gr of hops for 6 gal ( 22-23 l ).

Also, 10 days dry hopping seems so much, when you are only dry hopping with 2 oz. 5 days dry hopping it more than enough and will ensure brighter aromas.

So dump Pils/Vienna for simply Marris ?

What would be better for the crystal?

I got .5oz of leftover Mosaic wich i could add for bittering 60 mins boil.

Dry hoping will be done in early fermentation (30 hrs in)

Tweaked version:

6.50 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 1 87.8 %
0.45 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 2 6.1 %
0.45 kg White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 3 6.1 %

28.00 g Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 29.4 IBUs
14.17 g Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 12.4 IBUs
14.17 g Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 15.2 IBUs
0.50 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 7 -
28.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 8 6.7 IBUs
28.00 g Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 9 14.6 IBUs
28.00 g Amarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 10 4.5 IBUs
1.0 pkg California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) [35.49 ml] Yeast 11 -

28.00 g Amarillo [9.20 %] - Dry Hop 17.0 Days Hop 12 0.0 IBUs
28.00 g Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 17.0 Days Hop 13 0.0 IBUs

82.7 IBUS

 

[dstockwell]

Looks like your OG is at the high side, and your IBU's just barely crack the low side of 60 - 100. You should brew it to your tastes, so if 63 is enough bitterness then go for it.

 

[Redlantern]

I may be inclined to sub out the Pilsner malt with a Maris Otter or better yet, equal values of 2-row and golden promise.

The biggest thing is to drop the Citra as your bittering charge and go with Magnum/Warrior/Apollo - something other than that nice flavor hop. Move that Citra to the dry hop and boost the dry hop values. Also put in a 5-day dry hop that matches your 10-day.

 

[MrBlackrock]

I may be inclined to sub out the Pilsner malt with a Maris Otter or better yet, equal values of 2-row and golden promise.

The biggest thing is to drop the Citra as your bittering charge and go with Magnum/Warrior/Apollo - something other than that nice flavor hop. Move that Citra to the dry hop and boost the dry hop values. Also put in a 5-day dry hop that matches your 10-day.

I got some Bravo in good quantity for bittering.

Removed the citra and added bravo as bittering.

Citra whent for a 5 days dry hoping with Amarillo at 5 days also.

 

[Redlantern]

I got some Bravo in good quantity for bittering.

Removed the citra and added bravo as bittering.

Citra whent for a 5 days dry hoping with Amarillo at 5 days also.

That looks great to me. Bravo should work well in that mix.

This is just a thought - but lately I have simplified my hop additions and it makes things so much easier.

60 min - single hop bitter. probably about 50% of desired IBU (double IPA targeting 80 IBU - bitter to 40 IBU)

20 min - one or two hops to gain an extra 30% of desired IBU (double IPA targeting 80 IBU - add up to to 24 IBU)

Everything else at 2 min for boil for remaining IBU's. Getting 16 IBU at 2 min left in the boil can take a good amount of hops.

I chill to below 170°F and do my whirlpool at that temp for 30 min. This is supposed to pull very little in terms of IBU's out of the hops, but a crap-ton (industry term ) of flavor.

It makes my brews a little more predictable, and my brew days are easier because I do not have to wonder "hey - when is my next addition?"

 

[MrBlackrock]

That looks great to me. Bravo should work well in that mix.

This is just a thought - but lately I have simplified my hop additions and it makes things so much easier.

60 min - single hop bitter. probably about 50% of desired IBU (double IPA targeting 80 IBU - bitter to 40 IBU)

20 min - one or two hops to gain an extra 30% of desired IBU (double IPA targeting 80 IBU - add up to to 24 IBU)

Everything else at 2 min for boil for remaining IBU's. Getting 16 IBU at 2 min left in the boil can take a good amount of hops.

I chill to below 170°F and do my whirlpool at that temp for 30 min. This is supposed to pull very little in terms of IBU's out of the hops, but a crap-ton (industry term ) of flavor.

It makes my brews a little more predictable, and my brew days are easier because I do not have to wonder "hey - when is my next addition?"

6.50 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 1 82.8 %
0.90 kg White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 2 11.5 %
0.45 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 3 5.7 %

40.00 g Bravo [15.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 54.5 IBUs
14.17 g Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 15.3 IBUs
0.50 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 6 -
28.00 g Amarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 2.0 min Hop 7 1.9 IBUs
28.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 2.0 min Hop 8 1.1 IBUs
28.00 g Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 2.0 min Hop 9 2.5 IBUs
14.00 g Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 2.0 min Hop 10 1.0 IBUs

1.0 pkg DIPA Ale (Omega #OYL-052) Yeast 11 -

28.00 g Amarillo [9.20 %] - Dry Hop 17.0 Days Hop 12 0.0 IBUs
28.00 g Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 17.0 Days Hop 13 0.0 IBUs
28.00 g Amarillo [9.20 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 14 0.0 IBUs
28.00 g Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 15 0.0 IBUs

Still tinkering. Noticed i have some lefttover .5oz of Centeniall so why not add it in ?

Went with the Omega Yeast wich i had good comments about also.

 

[mmahu]

The grain bill looks much better, much cleaner. The Crystal addition is just in the right amount. The White wheat will give nice retention to the beer. The hop schedule seems a bit intricate, but if you are up for it, do it.

Move the Mosaic to dry hopping. If you have more Mosaic hops, move it to dry hopping. It is such a waste to use for bittering, as they are very aromatic and a great addition to any beer.

 

[whovous]

I don't think you have enough Mosaic left (14g) to warrant moving it to dry hopping, but I definitely agree you don't want it to be a bittering hop. Maybe move it to 15 minutes?

 

[MrBlackrock]

The grain bill looks much better, much cleaner. The Crystal addition is just in the right amount. The White wheat will give nice retention to the beer. The hop schedule seems a bit intricate, but if you are up for it, do it.

Move the Mosaic to dry hopping. If you have more Mosaic hops, move it to dry hopping. It is such a waste to use for bittering, as they are very aromatic and a great addition to any beer.

I do have more Mosaic sealed. This .5 was a leftover. Could always re seal. Kind of unsure about all the hops option since i got prety much alot of them (bought 10x 1 lbs that i splited with a friend)

Got: Willamette, MtHood,Mosaic,Colombus,Citra,Chinook,Centennial,Cascade,Bravo: 10 oz
Tettnand,Saaz,Nelson SAuvin, Galaxy around 2 oz each

 

[MrBlackrock]

I don't think you have enough Mosaic left (14g) to warrant moving it to dry hopping, but I definitely agree you don't want it to be a bittering hop. Maybe move it to 15 minutes?

responded to a similar question, have some sealed stuff also !

 

[MrBlackrock]

So still having fun with this after work...Thinking of going Double/Neipa stylish with the active fermentation dry hop (17 days one) and maybe adding something at the end of active (10 day'ish)

Or keep the 10 days at 5 days for a more potent Hop in bag aroma

Looks like this:

6.50 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 1 82.8 %
0.90 kg White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 2 11.5 %
0.45 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 3 5.7 %

40.00 g Bravo [15.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 54.5 IBUs
0.50 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 5 -
28.40 g Amarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 2.0 min Hop 6 1.9 IBUs
28.40 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 2.0 min Hop 7 1.2 IBUs
28.40 g Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 2.0 min Hop 8 2.5 IBUs
28.40 g Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 9 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg DIPA Ale (Omega #OYL-052) Yeast 10 -

28.40 g Amarillo [9.20 %] - Dry Hop 17.0 Days Hop 11 0.0 IBUs
28.40 g Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 17.0 Days Hop 12 0.0 IBUs

28.40 g Amarillo [9.20 %] - Dry Hop 10.0 Days Hop 13 0.0 IBUs
28.40 g Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 10.0 Days Hop 14 0.0 IBUs
28.40 g Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Dry Hop 10.0 Days Hop 15 0.0 IBUs

 

[mmahu]

If you would like to go for a NEIPA, you need to cut the Crystal malt in half, maybe less and add flaked oats. Like 10-15%. The yeast should be something like Wyeast 1318 London Ale III or something Conan.

The IBUs should be dropped down to say 30-40. Theose 40gr of Bravo move to 30 minutes and then lots of whirlpool/flemout hops.

Dry hop while the beer is still fermenting ( add them in the 3rd or 4th day of fermentation and leave for 5 days ).

Second charge of dry hopping for another 5 days, right before kegging/bottling.

Adjust the water accordingly to favour more Chlorides. 1.5-2:1 ratio.

If you go NEIPA, then you will have a reason to open a new Mosaic bag. :rockin:

 

[MrBlackrock]

Brew day ! So here it goes..A bit on the low IBU side but i like to share with friends and most arent super IBU tolerant.

6.50 kg Pilsner (Weyermann) (1.7 SRM) Grain 1 82.8 %
0.90 kg White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 2 11.5 %
0.45 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 3 5.7 %

40.00 g Bravo [15.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 55.3 IBUs
0.50 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 5 -
28.40 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 6 2.8 IBUs
28.40 g Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Boil 2.0 min Hop 7 2.6 IBUs
28.40 g Amarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 8 0.0 IBUs
28.40 g Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 9 0.0 IBUs

1.0 pkg DIPA Ale (Omega #OYL-052) Yeast 10 -

28.40 g Amarillo [9.20 %] - Dry Hop 17.0 Days Hop 11 0.0 IBUs
28.40 g Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 17.0 Days Hop 12 0.0 IBUs
28.40 g Amarillo [9.20 %] - Dry Hop 10.0 Days Hop 13 0.0 IBUs
28.40 g Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 10.0 Days Hop 14 0.0 IBUs
28.40 g Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Dry Hop 10.0 Days Hop 15 0.0 IBUs

 

[Redlantern]

Looks like you will be a very, very happy brewer

 

[MrBlackrock]

Looks like you will be a very, very happy brewer

Not the best brew day but not too bad. Did not hit my OG (1.070 vs 1.089) .

This morning, it hasnt started fermenting..Hoping i did not get a bad yeast (Omega DIPA)

 

[Redlantern]

Low OG is no big deal. It happens. I learned to keep DME or corn sugar on hand for that when I do DIPA (mostly corn sugar)

Stay patient on the yeast. My batch from Saturday did not kick over for some reason until late Sunday evening. By morning, it was in all its glory. No worries - relax and wait for all that hoppy goodness to come through.

 

[MrBlackrock]

Low OG is no big deal. It happens. I learned to keep DME or corn sugar on hand for that when I do DIPA (mostly corn sugar)

Stay patient on the yeast. My batch from Saturday did not kick over for some reason until late Sunday evening. By morning, it was in all its glory. No worries - relax and wait for all that hoppy goodness to come through.

How much sugar would you use to correct?? Ive got about 2lbs of light candi

 

[Redlantern]

for candi sugar (never used it myself) 46 gravity units per pound. for 5 gallons -


1 lb = 46/5 = 9.2, so will raise each gallon by SG.0092, or from 1.070 to 1.079

 

[ejf063]

nice work. looks like a good one. Omega takes a while to start. I wouldn't worry too much about that.

 

[MrBlackrock]

nice work. looks like a good one. Omega takes a while to start. I wouldn't worry too much about that.

Started like crazy overnight. Had to put a blowoff

 

[MrBlackrock]

Picture or it didn't happen

 

[MrBlackrock]

for candi sugar (never used it myself) 46 gravity units per pound. for 5 gallons -


1 lb = 46/5 = 9.2, so will raise each gallon by SG.0092, or from 1.070 to 1.079

Could i had this during ferment??

 

[Redlantern]

Could i had this during ferment??

I have done it before with no problem, but that was only once. Probably a few drawbacks like possible exposure to oxygen and nasites - so it CAN be done - cannot really comment on how advisable it is

 

[ejf063]

Could i had this during ferment??

are you adding the crystal sugar or the syrup? either one could be added, but added after fermentation slows down. Those simple sugars are exceptionally easy for the yeast to eat. So when they are starting to get tired after the main course, spark some life back into them with dessert!
Remember, if you are using sugar you may have to make a syrup to dissolve the solids. maybe boil .75 oz water to a pound of sugar for about 10 mins. then it needs to cool to pitching temp. That will make a very viscous syrup.... so you can add water if you want, but at the beginning so everything gets boiled. Just remember there is a boil rate... anyways, once this is down to pitching temps, dump it in.
If you're using the syrup, that's easy as hell. Just star san the pouch, open the lid and dump straight into that big-ole fermenter.
I would do this on day 3 or 4.... you can add your first round of dry hops then too, if you want, but you will need to weigh them down so it gets below the thick krausen that's already there.

 

[MrBlackrock]

I got candi crystals. I am on day 3. Boiling 1lb now

 

[sgreene820]

Hi there.

Trying myself at a Double Ipa and would like any advice.

Here it is:

6.50 kg Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 77.8 %
0.90 kg Vienna Malt (Weyermann) (3.0 SRM) Grain 2 10.8 %
0.45 kg White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 3 5.4 %
0.25 kg Carafoam (2.0 SRM) Grain 4 3.0 %
0.25 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 5 3.0 %

28.00 g Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 27.5 IBUs
14.17 g Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 11.6 IBUs
0.50 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 8 -
28.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 9 6.3 IBUs
28.00 g Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 10 13.6 IBUs
28.00 g Amarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 11 4.2 IBUs
1.0 pkg California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) [35.49 ml] Yeast 12 -

28.00 g Amarillo [9.20 %] - Dry Hop 10.0 Days Hop 13 0.0 IBUs
28.00 g Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 10.0 Days Hop 14 0.0 IBUs

Even with lighter malts and a low mash temp, a recipe with this much malt is likely to create a something with exaggerated malt sweetness. Many Double IPA recipes call for one lb (0.5 kg) of corn sugar to dry the heftier malt bill out.

Maybe worth thinking about?

 

[MrBlackrock]

Even with lighter malts and a low mash temp, a recipe with this much malt is likely to create a something with exaggerated malt sweetness. Many Double IPA recipes call for one lb (0.5 kg) of corn sugar to dry the heftier malt bill out.

Maybe worth thinking about?

Sure next time. Il see how this turns out ! Thanks!