Don't mash specialty grains?

[seanppp]

I was just watching an interview with Gordon Strong and he said don't mash your low diastatic specialty grains. Just steep them during the sparge. He says that since they don't need a starch-to-sugar conversion, adding them is not only unnecessary but counterproductive to quality of the beer. Like brewing coffee and letting it sit around. Very interesting. Do any homebrewers do this? Do commercial brewers?

 

[Beer-lord]

I've never tried this and likely won't as I am extremely pleased with my brews. But, I've done a few extract brews that had steeped specialty grains and the grains did their job so I guess it makes sense.

 

[BigEd]

I was just watching an interview with Gordon Strong and he said don't mash your low diastatic specialty grains. Just steep them during the sparge. He says that since they don't need a starch-to-sugar conversion, adding them is not only unnecessary but counterproductive to quality of the beer.

Counterproductive in what way? While it won't do any harm until I am presented with some hard evidence it just seems like a waste of time and effort.

Do commercial brewers?

Unlikely.

 

[Beernik]

Nobody boils their coffee for an hour after brewing it.

I can't imagine that mashing specialty grains for an hour is more harsh on the flavor they impart it than boiling the wort for an hour.

I'm curious as to what is supposed to be gained.

 

[cavalrymsh]

I was just watching an interview with Gordon Strong and he said don't mash your low diastatic specialty grains. Just steep them during the sparge. He says that since they don't need a starch-to-sugar conversion, adding them is not only unnecessary but counterproductive to quality of the beer. Like brewing coffee and letting it sit around. Very interesting. Do any homebrewers do this? Do commercial brewers?

Strong describes it in much more detail in his book 'Brewing Better Beer' in conjunction with his observations on cold-steeping versus hot-steeping or mashing. I don't recall him providing any emperical data- just anecdotal observations backed up by his stellar record in brewing competitions and his position as BJCP pres. I'm interested in giving the sparge only method a try for darker specialty grains.

 

[seanppp]

One thing he mentions is the diastatic potential of the grains. If the grains have no diastatic potential, then they are candidates for this no-mash method. Problem is for me, for the life of me I can't find a list of diastatic potential of different grains! Does anybody have such a list?

 

[duboman]

One of the reasons, as I understand it, it has to do with the higher potential of extracting more tannins in the final product especially with the darker grains.

IME though this can be avoided by ensuring proper mash pH and not sparging over 170F.

The addition of CaCo3 to the mash can also minimize this issue-this assumes you are properly managing your water profile when brewing darker beer

 

[GrogNerd]

One thing he mentions is the diastatic potential of the grains. If the grains have no diastatic potential, then they are candidates for this no-mash method. Problem is for me, for the life of me I can't find a list of diastatic potential of different grains! Does anybody have such a list?

list of grains in Beersmith. grains listed as NO under "Must Mash" have no diastatic potential & the ones listed as YES, you'll have to click on individually to see what their potential is

 

[DirtyOldDuck]

I'm too lazy to add another step to my brew day. I can almost guaranty that I would not be able to tell the difference between beer made by steeping specialty grains separately and then adding them to the boil with the mashed grains and beer made with specialty grains mashed with the base malt (like I just finished doing today).

 

[newbe]

I have tried this (in a way) one time I didn't "steep" the grains but I did add my dark grains only for the last 15-20 mins of the mash... constantly stirring them in. I tried this as I was told it could reduce some tannins. It made a great beer but then again, it could have been a great beer either way!

 

[cavalrymsh]

I have tried this (in a way) one time I didn't "steep" the grains but I did add my dark grains only for the last 15-20 mins of the mash... constantly stirring them in. I tried this as I was told it could reduce some tannins. It made a great beer but then again, it could have been a great beer either way!

Great point. This gets directly to the point about for whom are you brewing? Solely your own personal enjoyment and taste buds? Pride, competition or a paying consumer? As mentioned, I've considered using this technique, and Strong's reasoning appears sound. There probably are research-based hypotheses and/or data which support it, but it may not make a difference at the commercial scale to justify the PITA factor. Regardless, in the hierarchy of process controls I want to implement, this one will (literally) have to be placed on the back burner until things like mash temp stability across each step and recirculation are more or less removed as variables of concern.

 

[bumstigedy]

I have tried several times. The beers were all good, but I don't really know how much of a difference this made. I'm moving back to adding all the roasted and dark crystal grains at the start of the mash since I want them in there to help bring the mash pH down.

 

[erikpete18]

I also can't say that I'm sure it made a difference, but I have done it with the roasted grains in a stout that came out well. I've got pretty soft water to brew with, and was doing a pretty heavy imperial stout and was worried about the dark grains lowering the mash pH too far. I considered tossing in some CaCO3 to balance it out, but decided that with the amount of grain I was using to get to my OG, I was more comfortable not worrying about the pH and tossing the dark grains in late. If I remember correctly, I waited until the last 10 minutes of my hour mash, stirred the dark grains in, let them sit for 10 min, then batch sparged. The beer came out quite dark and very roasty, so at least for dark grains the method itself works. Whether it was beneficial or not is hard to say.

 

[Yooper]

I also can't say that I'm sure it made a difference, but I have done it with the roasted grains in a stout that came out well. I've got pretty soft water to brew with, and was doing a pretty heavy imperial stout and was worried about the dark grains lowering the mash pH too far. I considered tossing in some CaCO3 to balance it out, but decided that with the amount of grain I was using to get to my OG, I was more comfortable not worrying about the pH and tossing the dark grains in late. If I remember correctly, I waited until the last 10 minutes of my hour mash, stirred the dark grains in, let them sit for 10 min, then batch sparged. The beer came out quite dark and very roasty, so at least for dark grains the method itself works. Whether it was beneficial or not is hard to say.

A LOT of the new data and advice on CaC03 is simply "don't use it as it doesn't work". If you need to raise the mash pH, there are other options. (See some of the stuff in the Brew Science forum, as well as wait for Palmer's new book coming out in about October).

 

[erikpete18]

A LOT of the new data and advice on CaC03 is simply "don't use it as it doesn't work". If you need to raise the mash pH, there are other options. (See some of the stuff in the Brew Science forum, as well as wait for Palmer's new book coming out in about October).

Yeah, that's a lot of what I was running into, whether it would actually dissolve or not, when to add it (to mash so that low pH helps dissolving or while strike water is heating up), etc. Skipping the CaCO3 entirely seemed like the better option. I didn't realize Palmer was coming out with a new book, I'll have to keep my eyes open!

 

[bumstigedy]

I don't think you really need chalk anyway. I brewed a stout a few weeks ago using distilled water and some calcium chloride and got a mash pH of 5.4 at room temperature.