Don't do this (misread Yeast bb dates)

[mongoose33]

Planned to do a California Common this weekend. Friday we went to DBQ for dinner and I checked to see if I needed anything from the LHBS before I went. But he closes at 6pm, it's 5:15pm, it's a 30-minute drive, so I have to hurry.

I checked my hops (yes, need some Northern Brewer, get some), checked the yeast (expiration Nov 18), I have all the grains I need, so other than the hops, I'm good to go.

The yeast is a pack of Wyeast 2112. Friday night I decided to use up a can of canned starter wort (Propper), so I made up a starter. I don't like how that starter smells, so I figured I'd decant off the spent wort and pitch the yeast.

I oxygenated the starter wort as I always do, pitched it, and set it on the stir plate. Almost no observable action, maybe a few bubbles at the edge, but it sure was strange. After 21 hours on the plate, I stuck the flask in the fridge.

Well, this morning it's clear what's going on. I have a bad starter (see pic). Lots of junk on the bottom with a layer of what appears to be decent yeast on that. I look at the Wyeast pack and realize: I misread the date. The date OF MANUFACTURE is November 18, 2018, so I'm more than 10 months out. No wonder.



Fortunately, I also had a pack of White Labs 810, which I pitched after warming it. I left the wort at 75 degrees, and I'll start dropping it down to my normal ferm temp of 64 after 8 or so hours--hoping the wort acts like a big starter.

**************

Here's the funny thing: on the White Labs tubes, the date is the Best By date. On the Wyeast packs, the date is the date of manufacture.

Now, there's no excusing the fact that I misread a 2018 date as a 2019 date. In my defense, and it's not much of one, I was in a hurry to get to the store before he closed at 6pm. But it also was a confusion of the approach each yeast manufacturer uses--manufacturing date versus best-by date.

So beware.

 

[Robert65]

I much prefer a manufacture date rather than a best before date. That way I know exactly what's what and can make my own judgment on how to proceed. I thought White Labs gave both dates? Anyhoo, nice save and good luck with the batch!

 

[kh54s10]

Step up the starter with the Nov 18 date. There should be enough viable cells to start from.

I would also mention it to your LHBS, they should replace it. Actually they shouldn't even be selling liquid yeast that old without at least notifying that it is indeed old. Most will sell old yeast at a discount.

 

[mongoose33]

I much prefer a manufacture date rather than a best before date. That way I know exactly what's what and can make my own judgment on how to proceed. I thought White Labs gave both dates? Anyhoo, nice save and good luck with the batch!

You're right, White Labs has both--but I'm used to just looking at the last one.

Every time I make a mistake I learn something. I figure I must be borderline genius by now.

 

[mongoose33]

Step up the starter with the Nov 18 date. There should be enough viable cells to start from.

I might do that. Pretty ugly looking starter though, isn't it?

I would also mention it to your LHBS, they should replace it. Actually they shouldn't even be selling liquid yeast that old without at least notifying that it is indeed old. Most will sell old yeast at a discount.

Nah, it's not his fault. It's mine. He sometimes gets rid of borderline yeast at our homebrew meetings, and that's why I have a lot of yeast in my refrigerator drawer. Including that one. I knew I had some in there, saw the Wyeast pack and miread the date. I also "knew" in my subconscious that I had the White Labs in there too, but saw the Wyeast one and that was that.

I have all those old tubes of yeast because if I ever figure out how to do about 8 or 10 starters at once, I want to do some viability experiments. I need a shaker table or something or other to do that, something that works like a bunch of stir plates. I've got the setup to count yeast, microscope, hemocytometer, etc.

 

[kh54s10]

"I might do that. Pretty ugly looking starter though, isn't it?"

Can't tell, the only picture is see is of the yeast package.

 

[Robert65]

I think a homemade shaker table would be a really cool project. The real things are mostly cost prohibitive for the homebrewer. If anybody comes up with a design, I can't wait to see the posts!

 

[mongoose33]

"I might do that. Pretty ugly looking starter though, isn't it?"

Can't tell, the only picture is see is of the yeast package.

I think I'm losing it. I sent that pic to @Morrey, thought I'd posted it here. Here you go:

 

[kh54s10]

Looks like a good layer of yeast. The wort looks dark. Never used a commercially canned wort. I did can a batch myself - years ago.

 

[Robert65]

The biggest potential problem I see is Indian-made labware. [emoji6]

 

[ericbw]

I just recently used a pack of white labs with a 2017 expiration date. I’ve harvested yeast from bottles. I save my yeast for over a year sometimes before using it.

They’ve used yeast from the pyramids.

I don’t think 10 month old yeast is dead. It’s pretty resilient.

Your starter looks pretty normal.

 

[mongoose33]

I just recently used a pack of white labs with a 2017 expiration date. I’ve harvested yeast from bottles. I save my yeast for over a year sometimes before using it.

They’ve used yeast from the pyramids.

I don’t think 10 month old yeast is dead. It’s pretty resilient.

Your starter looks pretty normal.

From the pic, it's clear there's a layer of good yeast (the white stuff) while there's a layer of....whatever...underneath it.

 

[Robert65]

I think the white stuff is new yeast and the ... whatever color that is, is the old yeast. You always have that, but the contrast isn't so great with a fresher pack. That said, you do have some nice, new, viable yeast, so stepping it up should give you a perfectly good pitch.

 

[mongoose33]

Looks like a good layer of yeast. The wort looks dark. Never used a commercially canned wort. I did can a batch myself - years ago.

I tried canning some a couple years ago. Turned very dark. This stuff (Proppers) comes out dark as well, and I don't like it as much as just using light DME and boiling it myself. I like to pitch the entire starter and just couldn't bring myself to do that with this one. Doesn't smell very good, which I presume is a consquence of whatever they did to sterilize it (heat at canning temps? Don't know).

I tried a starter once using my canned stuff, and ended up not using it either. I found a pic of a starter using that, which coincidentally was also made with Wyeast 2112:

Looks pretty darned similar to my most recent one. Wonder what that dark stuff is on the bottom.

My attempt, 11 of which are still in the basement:

 

[kh54s10]

I tried canning some a couple years ago. Turned very dark. This stuff (Proppers) comes out dark as well, and I don't like it as much as just using light DME and boiling it myself. I like to pitch the entire starter and just couldn't bring myself to do that with this one. Doesn't smell very good, which I presume is a consquence of whatever they did to sterilize it (heat at canning temps? Don't know).

I tried a starter once using my canned stuff, and ended up not using it either. I found a pic of a starter using that, which coincidentally was also made with Wyeast 2112:

View attachment 645371

Looks pretty darned similar to my most recent one. Wonder what that dark stuff is on the bottom.

My attempt, 11 of which are still in the basement:

View attachment 645372

What did you use to make the wort? I used only Rahr 2-row. It was very much lighter than that. Only a very little darker than with light DME.

 

[mongoose33]

What did you use to make the wort? I used only Rahr 2-row. It was very much lighter than that. Only a very little darker than with light DME.

Some light DME.

 

[kh54s10]

Some light DME.

What did you do? Boil it down to syrup? I can't imagine how light DME at 1.040 could possibly get that dark!

 

[mongoose33]

What did you do? Boil it down to syrup? I can't imagine how light DME at 1.040 could possibly get that dark!

It was run through a canner. That brings the temp to 240 degrees. I presume it's maillard reactions or some such thing. Plus that orange stuff in the jars--no idea what that is. All I did was measure 100g of DME in each jar, add water, cap 'em and run them through the canner.

 

[kh54s10]

It was run through a canner. That brings the temp to 240 degrees. I presume it's maillard reactions or some such thing. Plus that orange stuff in the jars--no idea what that is. All I did was measure 100g of DME in each jar, add water, cap 'em and run them through the canner.

Strange, I did about the same. but started from a two row mash. Nowhere near as dark.

 

[mongoose33]

Strange, I did about the same. but started from a two row mash. Nowhere near as dark.

Did you go to the full 240-degree temps as you get in a pressure canner or was it a water-bath canning?

 

[mongoose33]

Bit of an update: Pitched yesterday about 11am. This morning, 6am, still no activity in the blowoff jar, no reduction in gravity as indicated by Tilt.

Went home at noon to check, STILL no activity 25 hours later. The White Labs yeast was 8 months old (2 months past the best-by date), but it must have been dead, dead, dead.

I had a pack of 34/70 dry yeast so I pitched that at noon. We'll see how it all works out.

It'll be just my luck that it turns out to be the greatest beer in the history of the world and I won't be able to reproduce it.

I'm going to ferment at around 64 degrees which is fairly high for a lager yeast, but we'll see what develops. Worst that can happen is it'll be a dumper.

 

[kh54s10]

Did you go to the full 240-degree temps as you get in a pressure canner or was it a water-bath canning?

I had a pressure canner with the wrong regulator on the top post. I ran it for 15 minutes. The pressure gauge did not get to the 15 pounds if I recall correctly. I have replaced the regulator piece and the gauge since but have not canned since.

 

[etk29321]

It’s been ages since I’ve canned wort, but mine alway came out pretty normal looking and not much darker than an ipa. I typically use light dme and a pressure canner.