Doing away with tea

[Owly055]

Kombucha has traditionally been produced from sweetened tea.......... I don't like tea, and do not like putting caffeine into my system.

What function does the tea perform? Obviously it must provide the nutrients for the yeast, and possibly other microbes. It is nonsense to claim that the scoby needs caffeine or tannins, or whatever. The scoby is not an organism, but a byproduct. A mat of cellulose produced by acetobacter and gluconobacter and perhaps some of the yeasts as a byproduct of their metabolism.

Tea and sugar have been the feedstock since time immemorial, but that does not make tea the optimal, or only reasonable feedstock to go with the fermentable sugar. It is in effect serving like a yeast nutrient.

Here is a quote from the UK Guardian: Dried tea leaves contain about 4.4% nitrogen, 0.24% phosphorus and 0.25% potassium. There is significantly more nitrogen in tea leaves than in most liquid pot plant fertilisers that are formulated for healthy, balanced growth.

This is probably true of numerous other potential feedstocks. I've used raspberry leaves from my own garden, I've used rooibos instead of actual tea. I suspect that other things would be well suited. Hemp seed might be a good source for nitrogen and other stuff. I'm in the process of acquiring a used Greenpower 1503 twin screw juicer, and plan to experiment with juicing greens to use in lieu of tea.

Again, I would prefer to leave the tea for the Englishmen and Chinese... they can have it all as far as I'm concerned. I do use decaf almost exclusively, but I'd rather get away from the flavor of tea also. As it is, I use very little..... half or less what most people use.

H.W.

 

[The Bouch]

This is interesting to ponder. I don’t do well with caffeine, but have always read that most of the caffeine is gone by the time the Kombucha is fermented. Any leftover caffeine doesn’t seem to bother me, and I’m pretty sensitive to it.

Would the tea’s purpose be to lower the pH of the mixture to mildly acidic to inhibit mold growth? Also, here’s a link to a Cleveland Clinic article discussing kombucha’s benefits are due to phytophenols in the tea

(new here...hope it’s ok to post links to other sites)

https://health.clevelandclinic.org/...h-benefits-and-how-much-can-you-safely-drink/

 

[Owly055]

This is interesting to ponder. I don’t do well with caffeine, but have always read that most of the caffeine is gone by the time the Kombucha is fermented. Any leftover caffeine doesn’t seem to bother me, and I’m pretty sensitive to it.

Would the tea’s purpose be to lower the pH of the mixture to mildly acidic to inhibit mold growth? Also, here’s a link to a Cleveland Clinic article discussing kombucha’s benefits are due to phytophenols in the tea

(new here...hope it’s ok to post links to other sites)

https://health.clevelandclinic.org/...h-benefits-and-how-much-can-you-safely-drink/

I've also read about some real benefits to GREEN tea. The caffeine does NOT disappear in kombucha, in fact studies have shown that it is not even reduced. I know from experience that decaf works just as well as regular tea, though some purists claim otherwise........ They are simply lying. They haven't tried it, and are repeating what they've heard or read somewhere. Much of kombucha lore is exactly like this.... stuff somebody made up and others simply repeat as fact. Sifting the truth out of it is is worse than sifting the words from the big T in DC...... in the latter case they are generally all lies.

I just completed a 2% alcoholic brew based on veggie juice invert sugar, and yeast nutrient, and pitched 1/3 booch to 2/3 brew so the booch can sour it. I used Belle Saison, which ferments out to virtually no sugar, I pitched 2 tablespoons of sugar, as there is probably no residual sugar to speak of to feed the gluconobacter and other microbes that actually need the sugar.

H.W.

 

[brewmeister13]

The caffeine does NOT disappear in kombucha, in fact studies have shown that it is not even reduced.

Do you have any sources to backup that claim? From what I've seen it is reduced. And it doesn't just "disappear", it's metabolized into different compounds. Here's one I've found that states caffeine is reduced: https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlehtml/2010/fo/c0fo00025f
Granted I haven't read the entire article so I may be missing something, but there seems to actually be quite a bit of scientific research into what is going on in kombucha if you look for it.

 

[Owly055]

Do you have any sources to backup that claim? From what I've seen it is reduced. And it doesn't just "disappear", it's metabolized into different compounds. Here's one I've found that states caffeine is reduced: https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlehtml/2010/fo/c0fo00025f
Granted I haven't read the entire article so I may be missing something, but there seems to actually be quite a bit of scientific research into what is going on in kombucha if you look for it.

There are a number of sources that quote studies.... supposedly, that have found that there is zero reduction of caffeine. Here is one article there are more, but I didn't go looking for an actual study. Unfortunately the folk wisdom is that there is only 1/3 as much, and through constant repetition it has become a "fact" in the minds of the kombucha community. This is typical of made up facts. There is no logical reason to expect it to be consumed.
https://www.phoenixhelix.com/2013/03/25/kombucha-myths-vs-truths/
https://www.phoenixhelix.com/2013/03/25/kombucha-myths-vs-truths/

 

[RPh_Guy]

Tea and sugar have been the feedstock since time immemorial, but that does not make tea the optimal, or only reasonable feedstock to go with the fermentable sugar.

I agree 100%. I tend to use malted barley to feed my microbes.

 

[stout12]

I agree 100%. I tend to use malted barley to feed my microbes.

Both a hop flavoured Kombucha and a malt and hop brewed Kombucha are on my to do list. Can you please share a recipe for your malted barley ferment?

Thanks

 

[RPh_Guy]

Both a hop flavoured Kombucha and a malt and hop brewed Kombucha are on my to do list. Can you please share a recipe for your malted barley ferment?

Thanks

Fermented malted barley is beer

I was just joking with the OP for saying he's tired of fermenting tea -- that's what kombucha is so he should just stop making kombucha and try something else.

If you want to experiment with malt, you can simply replace the sugar in your kombucha recipe with light dry malt extract. Just be very careful boiling it because it will foam.

There are lots of options for hops. Flavor descriptors may include fruity, herbal, spicy, resiny (pine), citrusy, floral, and/or earthy. Bitterness is extracted by boiling, so you can add bitterness and/or flavor/aroma depending on how long you boil them. They can also be added closer to packaging (dry hopping) without having been boiled.

I'm happy to answer any questions.

 

[stout12]

Fermented malted barley is beer

I was just joking with the OP for saying he's tired of fermenting tea -- that's what kombucha is so he should just stop making kombucha and try something else.

If you want to experiment with malt, you can simply replace the sugar in your kombucha recipe with light dry malt extract. Just be very careful boiling it because it will foam.

There are lots of options for hops. Flavor descriptors may include fruity, herbal, spicy, resiny (pine), citrusy, floral, and/or earthy. Bitterness is extracted by boiling, so you can add bitterness and/or flavor/aroma depending on how long you boil them. They can also be added closer to packaging (dry hopping) without having been boiled.
View attachment 608107

I'm happy to answer any questions.

Thanks! I will try dry hopping soon. It has been a long time since I have brewed beer but I do love hops and plan to get as much hop flavour and aroma as I can into my Kombucha.

As for experimenting with malt that will be much later down the track maybe even start off with adding some crystal malts alongside sugar before trying an all malt brew but I would definitely seek out some recipes.

 

[Owly055]

Thanks! I will try dry hopping soon. It has been a long time since I have brewed beer but I do love hops and plan to get as much hop flavour and aroma as I can into my Kombucha.

As for experimenting with malt that will be much later down the track maybe even start off with adding some crystal malts alongside sugar before trying an all malt brew but I would definitely seek out some recipes.

I'm a bit of an iconoclast I guess............... I feel that tea is just used because it started that way and everybody slavishly followed suit. If you look around on the net, you will find that people have successfully used other things............ Only the purists claim (falsely) that it will have a negative effect on your culture or your scoby...... both are false. Hops are a bad idea for primary, as hops are anti microbial. Guy's suggestion is typical "make something else"...... I got the same sort of negative reactions when I was brewing beer using innovative methods such as my 15 minute mash, and my continuous brew using Sigmonds Voss Kavik. Many things work, and produce good beer, but some folks lack flexibility and a sense of adventure.

Howard

 

[RPh_Guy]

I love using wild microbes and don't limit myself to using a SCOBY, unlike some-narrow minded folks.

I'm just poking fun. Brew whatever you want, however you want. It's all good.
Peace