actually, it was not inferred that it was temporary suspension of distribution to those states and the 2011 reference was regarding foreign export that surely was sent out in a letter at the end of last year to the UK and Canadian distros. I've been getting plenty of DFH in 2011 in TN up until now. He stated 'pulling out' and I guess only Sam himself could give us the implications of this, but from what I've seen from businesses that 'pull out' of markets, lots of times its indefinite. Especially with beers. And we all know from Beer Wars how political beer distribution is, so who knows why states that were cut were.
Dogfish Head Reduces Distribution
- Thread starter Pennsyltucky
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
actually, it was not inferred that it was temporary suspension of distribution to those states and the 2011 reference was regarding foreign export that surely was sent out in a letter at the end of last year to the UK and Canadian distros. I've been getting plenty of DFH in 2011 in TN up until now. He stated 'pulling out' and I guess only Sam himself could give us the implications of this, but from what I've seen from businesses that 'pull out' of markets, lots of times its indefinite. Especially with beers. And we all know from Beer Wars how political beer distribution is, so who knows why states that were cut were.
I liked their 90-Minute IPA but that's about it. I wasn't ever that impressed with anything else. I've had much better beers IMHO.
ruffdeezy
Well-Known Member
Next time I'm down in the USA for the weekend I'm gonna pick up a case of the 90 min.
Ehh, I'm good. I'm not gonna reward Sam for a bonehead business move and then pick up the distribution costs for them. The beer is good, but its not that good. I believe I'm gonna have to 'pull out' my support for Sam and DFH. Thanks for understanding :cross:
munche
Well-Known Member
You just haven't been paying attention lately. They've been back ordered and behind for months in every market, and I don't think TN is magically different there.
When they can't supply their demand, what are they supposed to do? I love how it's a "boneheaded business move"....obviously if they had the beer to sell, they'd sell it.
Also gotta laugh at the same people who are mad that they can't buy DFH saying they never liked it anyways.
I can only comment on my personal experience with this, and I believe I have been paying pretty close attention. Over 3 years ago when I first started seeing DFH 60m 6packs, they were few and you had to go to the "good beer" store to get em. Since then, more seasonal and specialty stuff has come through and you could buy the higher ABV beers at liquor stores. In the last year I watched as DFH got to more and more stores, grocers, and better pubs and restaurants in my area. Recently, I could even buy DFH at the packie down the street and before that the most exotic beer they had was SN pale ale. So magic or not, the beer has been here and I believe demand has been supplied pretty well in my area. I would've like to have seen more seasonal and specialty varieties on shelves but I wasn't bitching.
And the reason I think this is the more boneheaded business move to make in their supply crisis is because now they will be decreasing demand to the markets they are keeping (by flooding with more supply) and at the same time eliminating demand in the markets they are pulling out of. It's economics. They were selling at $12-15 a four or six pack because it was scarce and you couldn't get it everywhere all the time. See if you're all still willing to keep paying premium price for beer as common as BMC (ok, thats a little exaggerated, but I hope you get my point).
munche
Well-Known Member
Having more supply doesn't == more demand. They basically had to choose: crank out some crappy contract beer to be able to give all their distribs enough, or deal with disappointing their vendors, retailers and customers by having spotty distribution.
"I like DFH, but their beer only comes in every 3 months at the beer store. I'll get another brand."
"I used to like DFH, but ever since they got big, their beers have changed and suck now."
Neither of those sound like smart business decisions to me. Backing off on how many places they send to until they, you know, have enough beer to send there? Sounds smart to me.
Obviously if they had the capacity to make and sell beer everywhere they would, that's good business. I just have to marvel that they catch so much flack for taking the quality over quantity route, especially when most of the people complaining will bash the hell out of BMC at the same time for being mass produced crap.
"I like DFH, but their beer only comes in every 3 months at the beer store. I'll get another brand."
"I used to like DFH, but ever since they got big, their beers have changed and suck now."
Neither of those sound like smart business decisions to me. Backing off on how many places they send to until they, you know, have enough beer to send there? Sounds smart to me.
Obviously if they had the capacity to make and sell beer everywhere they would, that's good business. I just have to marvel that they catch so much flack for taking the quality over quantity route, especially when most of the people complaining will bash the hell out of BMC at the same time for being mass produced crap.
I don't think he's saying they suck now. He's saying if they cranked out a bunch of mass produced subbed out beer, quality would diminish and inevitably this would be the criticism for it, and I agree 100%. I don't think anyone's bashing for taking quality over quantity, at least I'm definitely not, have always respected Sam's passion for the finished product, I just don't agree with the way they chose to solve their distribution problems.
Well, this decision to pull out of entire states isn't exactly pleasing us vendors, retailers, and customers in the affected states. And I'm sure it wasn't an easy decision to make, I just can't find the reasoning exactly. I think the problem is we have two different dogs in this fight. You are obviously in a market with DFH distribution problems. Customers can't ever find the beer, distributors are complaining to the company, ****s on back order for 3months, etc, etc. Where as in my hometown, the market seems to be thriving. I now have two places within a mile from my home that I can get good beer at and just to see (since our back and forth yesterday) I stopped by both on my way home and both had DFH 60 & 90. Went by the liquor store as well, they had Raison D'etra and Midas Touch. Before anyone starts yelling "old stock, nobody's buying" I KNOW they didn't have the Midas Touch last week when I picked up wine for my gf. How much longer this will last due to distro cuts, who knows, but right now we still have some in town.
I guess my frustration from all of this is that they are eliminating a seemingly healthy market, MY market, to try to patch up a failing one? I shouldn't be able to get a beer I like to have on hand because things are effed up in your area. What if it's still not enough beer for the over demanding markets? Now everyone's pissed huh?
Well, this decision to pull out of entire states isn't exactly pleasing us vendors, retailers, and customers in the affected states. And I'm sure it wasn't an easy decision to make, I just can't find the reasoning exactly. I think the problem is we have two different dogs in this fight. You are obviously in a market with DFH distribution problems. Customers can't ever find the beer, distributors are complaining to the company, ****s on back order for 3months, etc, etc. Where as in my hometown, the market seems to be thriving. I now have two places within a mile from my home that I can get good beer at and just to see (since our back and forth yesterday) I stopped by both on my way home and both had DFH 60 & 90. Went by the liquor store as well, they had Raison D'etra and Midas Touch. Before anyone starts yelling "old stock, nobody's buying" I KNOW they didn't have the Midas Touch last week when I picked up wine for my gf. How much longer this will last due to distro cuts, who knows, but right now we still have some in town.
I guess my frustration from all of this is that they are eliminating a seemingly healthy market, MY market, to try to patch up a failing one? I shouldn't be able to get a beer I like to have on hand because things are effed up in your area. What if it's still not enough beer for the over demanding markets? Now everyone's pissed huh?
wedge421
Well-Known Member
Hopefully they decided to focus on nailing down their base recipes rather then do all of these experimental beers that are mediocre at best
rico567
Well-Known Member
It may not matter. The bigger picture probably has less to do with any individual's desire to be able to get DFH in their local liquor store or supermarket. I have a high regard for DFH.....but in the supermarket I go into regularly, they've got lots of competition. So the fact that one person sees a lot of DFH in the stores may be because people are buying other beers, too, while in another area, there's not, so DFH sells out quickly.
There are also lots of things that could be going on that are invisible, or that people like us may -at best- infer from other things. One may be our old friend "unintended consequences." Yeah, Brewmasters looked like a great thing for DFH, and in the short term, it may have been. Even a modest viewership of people (many of whom may not have known what a craft beer was, let alone that they wanted a Bitches Brew) would clear out every bottle of Bitches Brew on the shelves, which then devolves into "Gimme anything by Dogfish Head."
Now your great-seeming little TV show deal has cleaned out the pipelines, you've got distributors clamoring for beer, and all you can think about is that that DFH 90 in the bright tank won't be done for another three days.
If you respond like some people do and cut corners, there goes your reputation, and the market for anything as specialized as DFH collapses soon after.
So.....what's the answer, except to cut back like DFH has done? I don't know enough about business to know the other options.
motobrewer
I'm no atheist scientist, but...
curious....i was just at Discount Liquor in milwaukee (best beer selection in mke, btw) and i saw a full line of DFH Aprihop 4packs.
I checked the date code on one, "2011 3C".
stone seems to be gone. the only thing i saw of theirs was a few 2010 bottles of their guardian.
I checked the date code on one, "2011 3C".
stone seems to be gone. the only thing i saw of theirs was a few 2010 bottles of their guardian.
it seems like almost everybody in this thread is reading this news as a sign that times are rough for DFH. This is quite the opposite. This is a growing pains issue and they're refocusing to keep the beer on the shelves in the areas where it sells like hotcakes.
brew2enjoy
Well-Known Member
This is true. I live close to the brewery so I have seen the progress they have made over the years. It's crazy to see how much they have grown and gained in popularity. They just recently put in some new fermenters & holding tanks. They are trying to keep up, but like mentioned above they have growing pains.
keithbeats
Well-Known Member
Like Warren Buffett, brewers should seize this as a buying opportunity. Well not buying, but maybe starting a business in those states to cover the shortage of off-center craft beers. I'm in California, so I'm not game.
I've been trying to get my hands on some 120 minute IPA for a while now.
motobrewer
I'm no atheist scientist, but...
did anyone hear me say they're still distributing to WI?
Milwaukee appears to be just a short jaunt up the road from Illinois. Could be a leftover from a distribution truck/company servicing northern IL and southeastern WI?
Also, whats the bottle date of those brews? They could have been sitting in the distribution warehouses from end of 2010.
Just ideas.
motobrewer
I'm no atheist scientist, but...
motobrewer
I'm no atheist scientist, but...
no i didn't, it was ridiculous so i ignored it. lol. 
howabouttheiris
Well-Known Member
They are now holding prime eye level stocking at every HEB grocery store in Austin, TX. 60 min, 90 min and Aprihop, including a separate display at the front of the BEvERage section. My local pub has all 3 on draft taps.
If there is a shortage, I am not seeing it.
If there is a shortage, I am not seeing it.
Just wanted to weigh in on whether or not this is a good business decision or not.
From Dogfish's point of view, i'm surprised they didn't do this sooner. Think about it...
You're currently brewing at maximum capacity and serving tons of market. You are not meeting the full demands of any of these markets. Not every market you serve is equally profitable. Solution? Stop serving the less profitable markets and transfer that volume to the more profitable markets. Higher profits means more spending money available for a growing company to expand.
Honestly this is the best scenario as it allows them to keep all other variables the same(for example the quality of the product.)
...and to those who say they never liked their beer, i can't see an IPA lover not liking their 60 minute and 90 minute beers.
From Dogfish's point of view, i'm surprised they didn't do this sooner. Think about it...
You're currently brewing at maximum capacity and serving tons of market. You are not meeting the full demands of any of these markets. Not every market you serve is equally profitable. Solution? Stop serving the less profitable markets and transfer that volume to the more profitable markets. Higher profits means more spending money available for a growing company to expand.
Honestly this is the best scenario as it allows them to keep all other variables the same(for example the quality of the product.)
...and to those who say they never liked their beer, i can't see an IPA lover not liking their 60 minute and 90 minute beers.
Denny330
Well-Known Member
My Green Bay bottle shop said a large Milwaukee based distributor threatened a lawsuit if DFH cut them off. So... we are still getting the goods.
Aprihop with the same 20113c date was in Green Bay. Seems like this may be the first time I actually liked a distributor.
northernlad
Well-Known Member
I doubt Sam gives two shyts that any of you are going to boycott his beer. In fact, try reading your posts as if you are someone else: "I can't get DFH head in my state? Well, I'm gonna boycott them then."
I am sure he'd rather keep his real customers supplied. Hence the backing out of distant markets.
I am sure he'd rather keep his real customers supplied. Hence the backing out of distant markets.
You're right, Sam doesn't care if some people boycott, he doesn't need the support from us like he did before. He has a whole bunch of new bandwagon-yuppie-"seen it on tv, now I have to have it"-customers to sell to. I guess these are the "real" customers, huh? Way to sell out, Sam. For someone who appears to care more about the beer and the people than the cash, this reeks of sellout. Guess it really is all about the bennys.
Talking with the head manager at Spec's downtown Houston Warehouse. He said that Texas is one of Dogfish's BIGGEST customers. He is still pissed that they skipped us on Worldwide Stout this past year! I agree....
munche
Well-Known Member
So to be clear, the "True fans" are the ones who throw a fit at limited distribution and swear off a beer, and the people happily buying and enjoying the beer aren't "real" customers?
If the "real" customer is someone who's going to throw a fit over minor stuff and swear off my products forever, I'll take the "fake" customer who just enjoys it any day.
Nope, those people throwing a fit over this minor thing (closing distribution to a state is minor?) are called "non" customers. There's no boycotting to be done. How you gonna not buy beer you can't even get? Yea, that'll show 'em...
motobrewer
I'm no atheist scientist, but...
lol, are you in high school?
wow, nice one. troll much?
motobrewer
I'm no atheist scientist, but...
no, i don't. do you?
maybe they should have taken the Goose Island business model instead of "selling out". wait.....
maybe they should have taken the Goose Island business model instead of "selling out". wait.....
integrator
Well-Known Member
Nice, that made me laugh!
Maybe DFH just decided that they didn't want to compete with 3F here in Indiana...... Good news for 3F. I'm guessing some of the DFH fans will go to them.
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2008
- Messages
- 555
- Reaction score
- 51
Sam is the first to tell you to Cheat on your favorite brewery. The guy has a love for this industry that shows through in his product.
justinakajuice
Well-Known Member
Well, I like his beer. Been thinking of planning a trip up to Delaware to check out the brewery. Seems like a down to earth cool dude that's been through a ton of crap to get where he is at and won't sell out at any cost.
Following his dream and his dream is beer. Can't fault the guy for that and if you do, get the hell off of this forum.
Following his dream and his dream is beer. Can't fault the guy for that and if you do, get the hell off of this forum.
