OrvilleOrdinary
Well-Known Member
I wanted to brew up some espresso (16 oz or thereabouts) and throw it in my stout (either during secondary or at bottling). Will this kill the head? What precautions can I take?
Does espresso kill head?
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Lefty
Well-Known Member
I have a Coffee Stout I just bottled a month before. I added a very strong pot of coffee to the bottling bucket. Yes the head did suffer. The oils from the coffee will kill the head. Beer pours with a thick creamy head but it dissipates quickly. Most stout do not have a very big head, so it is up to you. Mine turned out great even if it does not have the best head retention. Are you brewing for a competition or just for yourself to have great beer?
justflow1983
Well-Known Member
As a Dublin resident, I'd have to point out that the head on a good stout should last through the entire pint. Its not very "tall", but its still in the bottom of the glass when you've drank the pint. Never had a coffee stout but sounds excellent.
As a Dublin resident, I suppose you're drinking your stouts from a nitrogen tap or possibly even from a cask, methinks? I think these aid in head retention.
Also, BJCP guidelines call for a "large, persistent head" on stouts.
Also, BJCP guidelines call for a "large, persistent head" on stouts.
justflow1983
Well-Known Member
Well definitely not from a cask, craft brewing is a pretty dead art in Ireland due to the devil called Diageo. The typical bar here serves Guiness, Heineken, Carlsberg, Budweiser, possibly Budvar, and Bulmer's Cider.
Usually I'd be drinking a Guiness from a nitrogen tap for sure, but if you get the old-school Guiness Extra Stout in the conical pint bottles (no widgets etc) the head still stays for the whole pint when you pour into a pint glass. Same with a Murphy's. The difference is that the extra stout is a lot airier, like the German dark beers. I'm actually from New York, lived here for 2 years and getting into homebrewing because its kind of a novelty here.
The art with Stout is also partly in the pour. Finding a barman that can pull a proper guiness and you're talking about a completely new beverage from the flat, instant coffee flavoured, sludge that often passes for the black stuff.
BTW wasn't knocking anyone's brews. I'm a complete noob, and if its still tastes good, drink it!
Usually I'd be drinking a Guiness from a nitrogen tap for sure, but if you get the old-school Guiness Extra Stout in the conical pint bottles (no widgets etc) the head still stays for the whole pint when you pour into a pint glass. Same with a Murphy's. The difference is that the extra stout is a lot airier, like the German dark beers. I'm actually from New York, lived here for 2 years and getting into homebrewing because its kind of a novelty here.
The art with Stout is also partly in the pour. Finding a barman that can pull a proper guiness and you're talking about a completely new beverage from the flat, instant coffee flavoured, sludge that often passes for the black stuff.
BTW wasn't knocking anyone's brews. I'm a complete noob, and if its still tastes good, drink it!
OP
OP
OrvilleOrdinary
Well-Known Member
Cool. So I've got one fellow saying it won't affect the head, and another saying it will. Anyone want to jump in for the tie-breaker?
(To answer your question, Lefty, I'm not brewing for competition, but a big part of my personal satisfaction with a stout is the creamy head.)
(To answer your question, Lefty, I'm not brewing for competition, but a big part of my personal satisfaction with a stout is the creamy head.)
dibby33
Well-Known Member
FWIW, I have had many commercial java or espresso stouts that had great head. I don't know if there is a special technique or not--I've never had a home-brewed coffee stout. It definitely can be done well for good head, but I have heard that the oils can be problematic. I hope to brew one this fall for the colder months.
In Dublin, you can find real cask ale at the Porterhouse Brewing Co. and also at the Bull & Castle.
In Dublin, you can find real cask ale at the Porterhouse Brewing Co. and also at the Bull & Castle.
justflow1983
Well-Known Member
I'm not looking to get into some sort of argument but I'm easily baited. I only mentioned "as a Dublin resident" to make the point that I have weekly encounters with many pints of Irish stouts of various stripes and feel that an authentic one has a good head that lasts for the whole drink. In fact, many of my drinking buddies would return one without a long lasting head as flat.
Just to round it out:
I have had many ales in both of those venues, never saw one that didn't come out of a normal bar tap and never bothered to check if they were cask conditioned (my interest in the minutiae of beer is pretty new). Definitely have not seen anything different from the usual tap, although I get Sierra Nevada some of the time in Porterhouse because it was one of my faves stateside and hard to find here (oh nostalgia).
The porterhouse red is my favorite local beer in Dublin. Porterhouse and B&C are the only good microbrews in this town that I've come across, although neither is very imaginative. The stouts in Porterhouse are actually kind of crap, wouldn't really use them as a reference. They both taste sort of like Saltine crackers with a hint of coffee, although the Oyster one is a bit creamier. Bull and Castle's own beers are hit or miss, they have a pretty small brewing operation although they also make a very good ale that I can't remember the name of. I also like the Galway Hooker when I can find it (Anseo has it), but theres something sugary about it that gives me a stomachache after more than 3 and its def not a stout. The downside of those two pubs you mentioned is that they are in a really touristy area and you have to fight through the people with guidebooks to get a table or a patiently poured beer. As commercial as it is, a good Guiness fresh from St. James pulled by a good barman is a really fantastic drink.
Edit: After reading about casked beers more I'll agree that I didn't know what I meant and the Porterhouse serves casked beers. I also would say that it is the exception to the rule in terms of beer in Ireland.
Sorry for being off topic, but sometimes you just gotta do it :-/
Just to round it out:
I have had many ales in both of those venues, never saw one that didn't come out of a normal bar tap and never bothered to check if they were cask conditioned (my interest in the minutiae of beer is pretty new). Definitely have not seen anything different from the usual tap, although I get Sierra Nevada some of the time in Porterhouse because it was one of my faves stateside and hard to find here (oh nostalgia).
The porterhouse red is my favorite local beer in Dublin. Porterhouse and B&C are the only good microbrews in this town that I've come across, although neither is very imaginative. The stouts in Porterhouse are actually kind of crap, wouldn't really use them as a reference. They both taste sort of like Saltine crackers with a hint of coffee, although the Oyster one is a bit creamier. Bull and Castle's own beers are hit or miss, they have a pretty small brewing operation although they also make a very good ale that I can't remember the name of. I also like the Galway Hooker when I can find it (Anseo has it), but theres something sugary about it that gives me a stomachache after more than 3 and its def not a stout. The downside of those two pubs you mentioned is that they are in a really touristy area and you have to fight through the people with guidebooks to get a table or a patiently poured beer. As commercial as it is, a good Guiness fresh from St. James pulled by a good barman is a really fantastic drink.
Edit: After reading about casked beers more I'll agree that I didn't know what I meant and the Porterhouse serves casked beers. I also would say that it is the exception to the rule in terms of beer in Ireland.
Sorry for being off topic, but sometimes you just gotta do it :-/
No worries, I wasn't trying to argue, I was just surprised to hear that there wasn't much cask ale being served in Dublin and after a few minutes of searching found out that those two establishments do at least have one cask fitting--though it is disheartening that there isn't more. I love cask ale and think the idea that all beer should be served ice cold and pressurized with CO2 is silly.
End of
There is another thread on these boards that addresses the issue of head retention in coffee stouts: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/espresso-stout-120760/index2.html
Also, today I saw a commercial brewer friend and asked him if the head retention in the coffee stout had ever been an issue and whether they did anything special to counteract the problem. He said it had never been an issue and the head's always been fine (I can attest to that). They just hang the beans in the fermenter for several days.
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