Does an extra fine crush really matter?

[linusstick]

Just like most things in brewing I've heard you NEED to funnel crush or double crush your grains. I've heard you should NOT do it and use a normal crush and I've heard it doesn't matter. My wife is doing her first beer by herself and I forgot to ask for a fine crush on the grains (I've only made beers with a very fine crush up to this point)

 

[McKnuckle]

Well, of course the answer is that you do NOT need to do it, and it does matter, but it doesn't make or break your brewing.

People here are obsessed with efficiency, and crush (up to a point) is an important variable contributing to efficiency. That said, it is perhaps most important to achieve consistency, not raw efficiency of a certain level. This point can be argued if one's mash efficiency is far out of bounds, like 50% or something. But once you enter the realm of 65-80%, it's a personal decision whether to obsess more about it.

Mash longer if you're not crushing too fine. It will increase the solubility of the starches and allow for better conversion. That happens more easily if the grist is finer.

 

[linusstick]

Well, of course the answer is that you do NOT need to do it, and it does matter, but it doesn't make or break your brewing.

People here are obsessed with efficiency, and crush (up to a point) is an important variable contributing to efficiency. That said, it is perhaps most important to achieve consistency, not raw efficiency of a certain level. This point can be argued if one's mash efficiency is far out of bounds, like 50% or something. But once you enter the realm of 65-80%, it's a personal decision whether to obsess more about it.

Mash longer if you're not crushing too fine. It will increase the solubility of the starches and allow for better conversion. That happens more easily if the grist is finer.

With an extra fine crush I was getting 65-69% consistently

 

[Smellyglove]

A fine(er) crush will convert faster. A finer crush will also make your recirculation rate slower, or your drain-rate. It all depends on the setup you use and how you brew. If you see no issues with a fine/coarse crush to your technique, then just use the crush you use.

For instance. I recirculate the whole time, so I'm looking for a good crush with a lot of intact husks. I also step mash, so with a lot of husks I can up the flow to get to the next temp faster than I could with a very fine crush. I also do a 15 minute rest at dough in with pump off, so I also want fast conversion, so I can recicrulate faster, so I'm also after some fine powder at the same time I'm after husks. As you can see, it's all about how you brew.

 

[RM-MN]

With an extra fine crush I was getting 65-69% consistently

What are you doing to get 65-69% efficiency with an extra fine crush? With my extra fine crush I consistently get over 85%. Is your "extra fine crush" not nearly as fine as you think? If so, consider a longer mash to compensate. Your only other possibility is that you have excess losses between mashing and into the fermenter.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I brewed a Bohemian Pilsner yesterday, and just before doing so I dropped the mill gap on my Cereal Killer from 0.38" to 0.34". I didn't measure any real change in my efficiency during the brewing session. My grist was 11 lbs. Pilsner, 1 Lb. Vienna, 8 oz. Melanoidin, and 6 oz. acidulated malt. Total 11.875 lbs. My OG was 1.052 on 6.1 gallons in the fermenter. Mashing was done in a 52 qt. Coleman cooler conversion with braid, and I had 5 gallons of strike water, followed by a single batch sparge of 3.67 gallons. Mash temperature began at 150.4 degrees and ended at 146.8 degrees 1 hour later, with two rigorous stirring sessions done at 20 minute intervals during the one hour mash.

Out of concern for a stuck sparge I added 1/4 lb. of rice hulls, which is something I did not ever need to do with a 0.38" mill gap. I'm not sure if this was required, but after seeing the dramatic difference in grist pulverization level between 0.38" and 0.34" I quickly decided to add the rice hulls.

 

[Morrey]

With an extra fine crush I was getting 65-69% consistently

What are you doing to get 65-69% efficiency with an extra fine crush? With my extra fine crush I consistently get over 85%. Is your "extra fine crush" not nearly as fine as you think? If so, consider a longer mash to compensate. Your only other possibility is that you have excess losses between mashing and into the fermenter.

As RM-MN said, The efficiency range you quoted is quite low if you are in fact grinding fine.

I was working on my MM3 motorized build and used an older (well worn) 2 roller mill for a few brews. My efficiency dropped 10% just based on the grind so it really is important.

Try taking a look at your mash efficiency as an isolated value. This will tell you more about the grind and mash process than will overall brew house efficiency. BH efficiency takes into account all the losses in your process...where mash lets you know more of what is happening related to your grind and mashing process.

Of course you want at least decent numbers so you are not throwing away half the goodness of your grains. With this said, remember the old saying, "chase consistency, not efficiency".

 

[linusstick]

What are you doing to get 65-69% efficiency with an extra fine crush? With my extra fine crush I consistently get over 85%. Is your "extra fine crush" not nearly as fine as you think? If so, consider a longer mash to compensate. Your only other possibility is that you have excess losses between mashing and into the fermenter.

I do not know how fine the grains are crushed because I don't have a mill. It's being done at the LHBS so who knows if they are doing it or not. I'm only about 12 beers in so I'm still learning. I don't know what more I could be doing different. I hit my mash temp almost every time, I get really close to my preboil gravity almost every time and my OG usually ends up a little higher than expected. When I put all those numbers into BS I still get a mash eff (not brewhouse) around 69-72. I never understood this because if I'm hitting all the numbers I'm supposed to, how could it always be so low? Maybe I'm missing something that goes into mass eff

 

[Murphys_Law]

I brewed a Bohemian Pilsner yesterday, and just before doing so I dropped the mill gap on my Cereal Killer from 0.38" to 0.34". I didn't measure any real change in my efficiency during the brewing session. My grist was 11 lbs. Pilsner, 1 Lb. Vienna, 8 oz. Melanoidin, and 6 oz. acidulated malt. Total 11.875 lbs. My OG was 1.052 on 6.1 gallons in the fermenter. Mashing was done in a 52 qt. Coleman cooler conversion with braid, and I had 5 gallons of strike water, followed by a single batch sparge of 3.67 gallons. Mash temperature began at 150.4 degrees and ended at 146.8 degrees 1 hour later, with two rigorous stirring sessions done at 20 minute intervals during the one hour mash.

Out of concern for a stuck sparge I added 1/4 lb. of rice hulls, which is something I did not ever need to do with a 0.38" mill gap. I'm not sure if this was required, but after seeing the dramatic difference in grist pulverization level between 0.38" and 0.34" I quickly decided to add the rice hulls.

Did the rice hills help the bag drain any better? I have been thinking about trying some out on my next brew day.

 

[thehaze]

With a fine crush I get 89% efficiency and that was with Pilsner malt, Spelt, Rye and Chocolate Spelt. This was for a saison. A fine crush usually gets me over 82-83% and that means more alcohol in the final beer, but I do not mind. The sparge, if you do it, it will be much slower and could probably pose some issues, but nothing you cannot handle with a paddle and some highten attention.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Did the rice hills help the bag drain any better? I have been thinking about trying some out on my next brew day.

Oops, I didn't realize this was the BIAB forum. I don't have a bag. I merely have a braid. I want to move up to a bag though. But even if I put a bag in my cooler I won't be able to say that im brewing in a bag.

 

[Dcpcooks]

I do not know how fine the grains are crushed because I don't have a mill. It's being done at the LHBS so who knows if they are doing it or not. I'm only about 12 beers in so I'm still learning. I don't know what more I could be doing different. I hit my mash temp almost every time, I get really close to my preboil gravity almost every time and my OG usually ends up a little higher than expected. When I put all those numbers into BS I still get a mash eff (not brewhouse) around 69-72. I never understood this because if I'm hitting all the numbers I'm supposed to, how could it always be so low? Maybe I'm missing something that goes into mass eff

Most homebrew shop mills are set a little wide to prevent stuck mash's or sell more grain if your a cynic. So I highly doubt your getting a fine crush unless they offer that as an option pre purchase.

Don't get overly concerned with efficiency. The difference in grain cost is relatively small. The key is to know what your efficiency is and plan around that. What you want is confidence in your ability to hit numbers and consistency from batch to batch.

There are several things you can do to improve efficiency from your false bottom or bag set up to fine grain crush to recirculating or stirring the mash more, up to managing ph. I find a good mill and a nice crush at home did the most to boost efficiency while balancing the mashes permeability for sparge and recirculation. You can buy a lot of grain for the price of a good mill so it's relative.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Post a good pic of the crush...coarse, fine, x fine, xx fine all subjective

 

[doug293cz]

As RM-MN said, The efficiency range you quoted is quite low if you are in fact grinding fine.

I was working on my MM3 motorized build and used an older (well worn) 2 roller mill for a few brews. My efficiency dropped 10% just based on the grind so it really is important.

Try taking a look at your mash efficiency as an isolated value. This will tell you more about the grind and mash process than will overall brew house efficiency. BH efficiency takes into account all the losses in your process...where mash lets you know more of what is happening related to your grind and mashing process.

Of course you want at least decent numbers so you are not throwing away half the goodness of your grains. With this said, remember the old saying, "chase consistency, not efficiency".

Better yet, look at your isolated conversion efficiency. Mash efficiency is equal to conversion efficiency times lauter efficiency. A finer crush primarily affects conversion efficiency. Lauter efficiency is affected by sparge/no-sparge process, grain absorption rate, and MLT undrainable volume. All you need to do to measure conversion efficiency is know your mash thickness (qt/lb), and SG of the wort in the MLT at the end of mash. The method is here. Conversion efficiency can be increased by crushing finer and/or mashing longer. Periodic stirring or recirculation of the mash can also help.

Brewhouse efficiency = conversion efficiency * lauter efficiency * fermenter vol / post-boil vol (assuming no sugar added during boil.) Understanding the implications of this equation will help you diagnose efficiency issues.

Brew on

 

[doug293cz]

I brewed a Bohemian Pilsner yesterday, and just before doing so I dropped the mill gap on my Cereal Killer from 0.38" to 0.34". I didn't measure any real change in my efficiency during the brewing session. My grist was 11 lbs. Pilsner, 1 Lb. Vienna, 8 oz. Melanoidin, and 6 oz. acidulated malt. Total 11.875 lbs. My OG was 1.052 on 6.1 gallons in the fermenter. Mashing was done in a 52 qt. Coleman cooler conversion with braid, and I had 5 gallons of strike water, followed by a single batch sparge of 3.67 gallons. Mash temperature began at 150.4 degrees and ended at 146.8 degrees 1 hour later, with two rigorous stirring sessions done at 20 minute intervals during the one hour mash.

Out of concern for a stuck sparge I added 1/4 lb. of rice hulls, which is something I did not ever need to do with a 0.38" mill gap. I'm not sure if this was required, but after seeing the dramatic difference in grist pulverization level between 0.38" and 0.34" I quickly decided to add the rice hulls.

0.034" gap is not a particularly fine crush. I crush between 0.016" and 0.022" for BIAB. That is likely too fine for a traditional MLT, but works great for BIAB.

Brew on

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

0.034" gap is not a particularly fine crush. I crush between 0.016" and 0.022" for BIAB. That is likely too fine for a traditional MLT, but works great for BIAB.

Brew on

Wow is all I can say to that, Would that crush level also work for using a bag in a plastic cooler type mash tun, as opposed to a braid?

 

[doug293cz]

Wow is all I can say to that, Would that crush level also work for using a bag in a plastic cooler type mash tun, as opposed to a braid?

You might have to have a way to pull the bag up to prevent a stuck mash/sparge. I know lots of brewers use bags in coolers, but don't have any idea what degree of crush they are using.

Brew on

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I do not know how fine the grains are crushed because I don't have a mill. It's being done at the LHBS so who knows if they are doing it or not. I'm only about 12 beers in so I'm still learning. I don't know what more I could be doing different. I hit my mash temp almost every time, I get really close to my preboil gravity almost every time and my OG usually ends up a little higher than expected. When I put all those numbers into BS I still get a mash eff (not brewhouse) around 69-72. I never understood this because if I'm hitting all the numbers I'm supposed to, how could it always be so low? Maybe I'm missing something that goes into mass eff

Get a cereal killer mill for like $100 and don't look back. Buy bulk base grain and in no time it will pay for itself. Mines been going strong for 4 years and counting grinding at least 25# of grain every month.... money well spent

 

[McKnuckle]

I'm curious about something. The "crush fine for BIAB" mantra has been widely accepted. But is it really the bag that makes this technique optimal, or is it the no sparge (full volume mash) aspect that necessitates it?

Because I'm having a hard time understanding, if I use a bag as a manifold but mash/sparge in a traditional way, why would I need to crush finer than the average brewer? Unless it's that the bag itself is trapping sugar within the material's weave - which seems a stretch, but I've thought about it.

 

[linusstick]

View attachment IMG_7656.jpg
Here's a portion of the recipe I'm going to brew tomorrow

Here's the timer in Beersmith that I will follow
View attachment IMG_7657.jpg

I'll report back to tell you the numbers I achieve and how I did it. Now this recipe I did NOT ask for a fine crush so we'll see. Another thing I'm not putting together is if I have my efficiency in my equipment profile set to 70%, won't all my recipes give me the grains/water needed to achieve that and nothing higher?

 

[mongoose33]

0.034" gap is not a particularly fine crush. I crush between 0.016" and 0.022" for BIAB. That is likely too fine for a traditional MLT, but works great for BIAB.

Brew on

I'm finding the same thing. When I was doing traditional mash tun, I had a .035 gap. Now that I do BIAB, I'm using .020.

What was nice was that I end up getting the same efficiency, so all my recipes translated.

 

[doug293cz]

I'm curious about something. The "crush fine for BIAB" mantra has been widely accepted. But is it really the bag that makes this technique optimal, or is it the no sparge (full volume mash) aspect that necessitates it?

Because I'm having a hard time understanding, if I use a bag as a manifold but mash/sparge in a traditional way, why would I need to crush finer than the average brewer? Unless it's that the bag itself is trapping sugar within the material's weave - which seems a stretch, but I've thought about it.

In most cases finer crush provides better conversion efficiency than a coarser crush. But if you are using a traditional MLT (with false bottom, manifold, or braid), if you crush too fine you will get stuck run-offs. So, you back off the crush to the point where you no longer get stuck run-offs, but this reduces your conversion efficiency. However, if you add a sparge, your lauter efficiency goes up, and you still get pretty good mash efficiency.

When you use a bag, and pull it out of the mash vessel for lautering, finer crushes don't have stuck run-off issues. This allows you to crush finer than for a traditional MLT, and take advantage of the higher conversion efficiency. If you keep doing a sparge you will get a gain in mash efficiency. On the other hand, you could say, "I want to have a simpler brew day, so I'll skip sparging." If you did this with a coarse crush, your mash efficiency would go down, because your lauter efficiency went down. But with a finer crush, the conversion efficiency goes up, while the lauter efficiency goes down, and you may or may not see a reduction in mash efficiency. The finer crush makes no-sparge brewing more acceptable from a mash efficiency standpoint, than no-sparge with a coarse crush. Fine crush is never a "necessity", but if you are not happy with your mash efficiency, then finer crush is desirable.

Let's do a couple of real world examples. First a traditional MLT with typical coarse crush, where the grain absorption rate is 0.125 gal/lb, you typically get 80% mash efficiency with a 10 lb grain bill, and 6.5 gal pre-boil volume, while employing and optimal single batch sparge. Using my mash/lauter simulator, the results you get are:

Conversion efficiency = 92%
Lauter efficiency = 87%
Mash efficiency = 80%
Pre-boil SG = 1.044​

If we leave everything the same, except do a no-sparge process the results are:

Conversion efficiency = 92%
Lauter efficiency = 78%
Mash efficiency = 72%
Pre-boil SG = 1.039​

If you wanted to achieve the same pre-boil SG (1.044) as with your sparge process, you would have to increase your grain bill to 11.5 lb, a 1.5 lb increase.

If you go to a bag, and use a very fine crush that allows you to get 98% conversion efficiency (typical of what I get), and lift the bag when lautering (which will drop the grain absorption rate to about 0.11 gal/lb), the results with the original 10 lb grain bill are:

Conversion efficiency = 98%
Lauter efficiency = 79%
Mash efficiency = 77 - 78%
Pre-boil SG = 1.042 - 1.043​

And the grain bill required to achieve the 1.044 pre-boil SG goes down to 10.4 lb. The finer crush saved a little more than a lb of grain.

If you add back the sparge step, with the fine crush and bag, the 10 lb grain bill results become:

Conversion efficiency = 98%
Lauter efficiency = 88%
Mash efficiency = 86 - 87%
Pre-boil SG = 1.047​

And to hit the 1.044 pre-boil SG target only requires 9.1 lb of grain.

If you decide to squeeze the bag instead of sparging, and squeeze enough to get your grain absorption down to 0.07 gal/lb, the 10 lb grain bill, no-sparge results become:

Conversion efficiency = 98%
Lauter efficiency = 83%
Mash efficiency = 81 - 82%
Pre-boil SG = 1.044 -1.045​

Slightly better than the coarse crush, traditional MLT with batch sparge process.

The take away is that there are a lot of ways to achieve similar results, all of which are valid choices.

It turns out that a lot of brewers who are having efficiency issues have conversion efficiencies much less than the 92% used in our coarse crush case. These are the folks that really need to crush finer and/or mash longer to get their efficiency up.

Brew on

 

[McKnuckle]

So what you're saying can be summarized as:

Finer grind = better conversion efficiency, period. Factor in as you see fit to your process, no matter what said process is.

Makes sense. Thanks for the detailed example.

 

[linusstick]

In most cases finer crush provides better conversion efficiency than a coarser crush. But if you are using a traditional MLT (with false bottom, manifold, or braid), if you crush too fine you will get stuck run-offs. So, you back off the crush to the point where you no longer get stuck run-offs, but this reduces your conversion efficiency. However, if you add a sparge, your lauter efficiency goes up, and you still get pretty good mash efficiency.



When you use a bag, and pull it out of the mash vessel for lautering, finer crushes don't have stuck run-off issues. This allows you to crush finer than for a traditional MLT, and take advantage of the higher conversion efficiency. If you keep doing a sparge you will get a gain in mash efficiency. On the other hand, you could say, "I want to have a simpler brew day, so I'll skip sparging." If you did this with a coarse crush, your mash efficiency would go down, because your lauter efficiency went down. But with a finer crush, the conversion efficiency goes up, while the lauter efficiency goes down, and you may or may not see a reduction in mash efficiency. The finer crush makes no-sparge brewing more acceptable from a mash efficiency standpoint, than no-sparge with a coarse crush. Fine crush is never a "necessity", but if you are not happy with your mash efficiency, then finer crush is desirable.



Let's do a couple of real world examples. First a traditional MLT with typical coarse crush, where the grain absorption rate is 0.125 gal/lb, you typically get 80% mash efficiency with a 10 lb grain bill, and 6.5 gal pre-boil volume, while employing and optimal single batch sparge. Using my mash/lauter simulator, the results you get are:

Conversion efficiency = 92%

Lauter efficiency = 87%

Mash efficiency = 80%

Pre-boil SG = 1.044​

If we leave everything the same, except do a no-sparge process the results are:

Conversion efficiency = 92%

Lauter efficiency = 78%

Mash efficiency = 72%

Pre-boil SG = 1.039​

If you wanted to achieve the same pre-boil SG (1.044) as with your sparge process, you would have to increase your grain bill to 11.5 lb, a 1.5 lb increase.



If you go to a bag, and use a very fine crush that allows you to get 98% conversion efficiency (typical of what I get), and lift the bag when lautering (which will drop the grain absorption rate to about 0.11 gal/lb), the results with the original 10 lb grain bill are:

Conversion efficiency = 98%

Lauter efficiency = 79%

Mash efficiency = 77 - 78%

Pre-boil SG = 1.042 - 1.043​

And the grain bill required to achieve the 1.044 pre-boil SG goes down to 10.4 lb. The finer crush saved a little more than a lb of grain.



If you add back the sparge step, with the fine crush and bag, the 10 lb grain bill results become:

Conversion efficiency = 98%

Lauter efficiency = 88%

Mash efficiency = 86 - 87%

Pre-boil SG = 1.047​

And to hit the 1.044 pre-boil SG target only requires 9.1 lb of grain.



If you decide to squeeze the bag instead of sparging, and squeeze enough to get your grain absorption down to 0.07 gal/lb, the 10 lb grain bill, no-sparge results become:

Conversion efficiency = 98%

Lauter efficiency = 83%

Mash efficiency = 81 - 82%

Pre-boil SG = 1.044 -1.045​

Slightly better than the coarse crush, traditional MLT with batch sparge process.



The take away is that there are a lot of ways to achieve similar results, all of which are valid choices.



It turns out that a lot of brewers who are having efficiency issues have conversion efficiencies much less than the 92% used in our coarse crush case. These are the folks that really need to crush finer and/or mash longer to get their efficiency up.



Brew on

Man if I get half as knowledgeable as you guys are later down the road, I will be happy. I feel like a dummy asking all of these (dumb) questions but every thread I start, by the end of it I feel a lot more informed and it generates more questions. I have a ton more questions in the intermediate stage than i ever did in the beginning. In the beginning I just was trying to make a beer. Now I'm making a decent beer and trying to make it great. Thanks for the patience [emoji481]

 

[RM-MN]

Man if I get half as knowledgeable as you guys are later down the road, I will be happy. I feel like a dummy asking all of these (dumb) questions but every thread I start, by the end of it I feel a lot more informed and it generates more questions. I have a ton more questions in the intermediate stage than i ever did in the beginning. In the beginning I just was trying to make a beer. Now I'm making a decent beer and trying to make it great. Thanks for the patience [emoji481]

If you drink more beer you won't get smarter but you might think you do.

One doesn't "need" to know all this stuff to make good beer but it is fun to see the science of what goes on in the process and where changes in your process make it more efficient or make better beer.

 

[doug293cz]

Man if I get half as knowledgeable as you guys are later down the road, I will be happy. I feel like a dummy asking all of these (dumb) questions but every thread I start, by the end of it I feel a lot more informed and it generates more questions. I have a ton more questions in the intermediate stage than i ever did in the beginning. In the beginning I just was trying to make a beer. Now I'm making a decent beer and trying to make it great. Thanks for the patience [emoji481]

Three years ago, I didn't know much of what I know now. Keep reading HBT, and other brewing related stuff, work to understand what you read, and you can learn a lot. Enjoy the journey.

Brew on

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Most homebrew shop mills are set a little wide to prevent stuck mash's or sell more grain if your a cynic. So I highly doubt your getting a fine crush unless they offer that as an option pre purchase.

Don't get overly concerned with efficiency. The difference in grain cost is relatively small. The key is to know what your efficiency is and plan around that. What you want is confidence in your ability to hit numbers and consistency from batch to batch.

There are several things you can do to improve efficiency from your false bottom or bag set up to fine grain crush to recirculating or stirring the mash more, up to managing ph. I find a good mill and a nice crush at home did the most to boost efficiency while balancing the mashes permeability for sparge and recirculation. You can buy a lot of grain for the price of a good mill so it's relative.

One caveat regarding getting worked up about efficiency. If you want to do some big beers, you really need to get a pretty decent brewhouse efficiency with mid-low abv beers first.

The issue is that efficiency drops with larger grain bills. If you start with a low efficiency (low 60's or lower), and start upping your grain bill/dropping efficiency even more, it can be really hard to get that 1.1 OG (for example) level because adding more grain keeps dropping your efficiency. The amount you have to add, given the batch size and grain/water ratio makes it really hard to achieve that really high OG.

If you're getting at least 70% brewhouse...agreed. No point in getting worked up about it.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I'm curious about something. The "crush fine for BIAB" mantra has been widely accepted. But is it really the bag that makes this technique optimal, or is it the no sparge (full volume mash) aspect that necessitates it?

Because I'm having a hard time understanding, if I use a bag as a manifold but mash/sparge in a traditional way, why would I need to crush finer than the average brewer? Unless it's that the bag itself is trapping sugar within the material's weave - which seems a stretch, but I've thought about it.

It's not that the bag necessitates a finer crush, it's more that it enables you to do it. This, as noted above, can yield higher conversion efficiency.

As an example, I've done a cooler MLT, single batch sparge with a nice SS bazooka filter for about a year and using the HBS to crush my grains. I was consistently getting about 61% brewhouse efficiency (as calculated by Brewer's Friend). I switched to a bag in a cooler w/o the bazooka, crushed my own grains to just over .025 and my same single batch sparge process. Basically, the only things that changed were bag vs bazooka and grain crush. My brewhouse efficiency increased to 71% (again as calculated by Brewer's Friend).

This is what I was looking for since I want to brew a really big imperial stout (Bourbon Counter Stout clone) and the 61% efficiency was going to be a problem.

 

[Dcpcooks]

One caveat regarding getting worked up about efficiency. If you want to do some big beers, you really need to get a pretty decent brewhouse efficiency with mid-low abv beers first.



The issue is that efficiency drops with larger grain bills. If you start with a low efficiency (low 60's or lower), and start upping your grain bill/dropping efficiency even more, it can be really hard to get that 1.1 OG (for example) level because adding more grain keeps dropping your efficiency. The amount you have to add, given the batch size and grain/water ratio makes it really hard to achieve that really high OG.



If you're getting at least 70% brewhouse...agreed. No point in getting worked up about it.

I totally agree! The first time I did a huge RIS I had two coolers full of grain and had a ***** of a time getting it all into the kettle after the mash. I didn't know about lost efficiency at the time but luckily I was brewing mostly strong Belgian beers so my brewhouse numbers were geared towards high gravity beers. I'm not even sure if I understood what brewhouse efficiency meant at the time.

I bought a 30 gallon blichmann and their false bottom a few weeks later because I wanted the ability to make a half bbl of any damn beer I wanted! I love that kettle! Since then I bought a motorized three roller mill and between the two improvements I enjoy high efficiencies and I have great recirculation rates.

At a buck a lb. for bulk grain I should break even on the equipment before I die!

 

[PADave]

Get a cereal killer mill for like $100 and don't look back. Buy bulk base grain and in no time it will pay for itself. Mines been going strong for 4 years and counting grinding at least 25# of grain every month.... money well spent

I'll second this. Having the same crush every brew is a huge factor. Before I bought my mill depending on where I bought the grains my efficiency could vary by 5-10%. Now that I got my cereal killer, which I set at its tightest setting, every brew comes out as predicted.

 

[bcltoys]

I'll second this. Having the same crush every brew is a huge factor. Before I bought my mill depending on where I bought the grains my efficiency could vary by 5-10%. Now that I got my cereal killer, which I set at its tightest setting, every brew comes out as predicted.

Right there with you on the cereal killer.

 

[Clarke]

Just like most things in brewing I've heard you NEED to funnel crush or double crush your grains. I've heard you should NOT do it and use a normal crush and I've heard it doesn't matter. My wife is doing her first beer by herself and I forgot to ask for a fine crush on the grains (I've only made beers with a very fine crush up to this point)

You tell us. Brew many beers and different crush rate, take notes and you will get your answer. Are you in it for the long term hobby or just one beer? Try different methods and learn from your experiance.