Do you keep mashing at/slightly below 150F and never raise it to mashout for an IPA?

[Elysium]

I am trying to brew a low IBU hoppy beer (it is low on the IBU side becuase I dont want high bitterness....but the aroma/flavour side of the beer is taken care of well.....due to the 7.5 oz of hops I use in the brew).

I am wondering if I should keep it at 150F and mash without raising that temperature any higher (for a mashout) in order to keep the malt profile diminished and let the hops come through.

Any thoughts on this?

 

[Yooper]

I am trying to brew a low IBU hoppy beer (it is low on the IBU side becuase I dont want high bitterness....but the aroma/flavour side of the beer is taken care of well.....due to the 7.5 oz of hops I use in the brew).

I am wondering if I should keep it at 150F and mash without raising that temperature any higher (for a mashout) in order to keep the malt profile diminished and let the hops come through.

Any thoughts on this?

If you're fly sparging, it takes 45-60 minutes or so, so a mash out is generally done to denature the enzymes and end the debranching of the sugars.

If you're batch sparging, it's quicker and generally the first runnings are put on to boil right away, so you don't need to mash out.

 

[Elysium]

If you're fly sparging, it takes 45-60 minutes or so, so a mash out is generally done to denature the enzymes and end the debranching of the sugars.

If you're batch sparging, it's quicker and generally the first runnings are put on to boil right away, so you don't need to mash out.

It's BIAB....grains in, then out....end of the story. My brewing is limited to that....dunk sparging is what I might start doing soon with 2 gallons of water.

 

[Yooper]

It's BIAB....grains in, then out....end of the story. My brewing is limited to that....dunk sparging is what I might start doing soon with 2 gallons of water.

Oh, then you don't even need to think about a mash out. Pull out your grain bag, and turn on the heat. That will do a mash out on the way to a boil. Easy as can be.

 

[Elysium]

Oh, then you don't even need to think about a mash out. Pull out your grain bag, and turn on the heat. That will do a mash out on the way to a boil. Easy as can be.

Yeah, that's what I thought too....but since I am a newbie, I had no idea if mash-out is meant to be at higher temperature with the grain in the pot for more sugar extraction...or if it is to denature enzymes? (if I am not wrong it is the α-Amylase enzyme....but I dont even know what that does...just remember it from some articles)

UPDATE: you have just talked about this in a previous message "so a mash out is generally done to denature the enzymes and end the debranching of the sugars."

Thanks for the info.

 

[Johnnyhitch1]

Yeah, that's what I thought too....but since I am a newbie, I had no idea if mash-out is meant to be at higher temperature with the grain in the pot for more sugar extraction...or if it is to denature enzymes? (if I am not wrong it is the α-Amylase enzyme....but I dont even know what that does...just remember it from some articles)

UPDATE: you have just talked about this in a previous message "so a mash out is generally done to denature the enzymes and end the debranching of the sugars."

Thanks for the info.

A "mash-out" might be useful in your BIAB where you don't sparge. Raising the temp to 165-168 will help liquefy the sugars to help "wash" or sparge more out of the grains.

 

[Elysium]

A "mash-out" might be useful in your BIAB where you don't sparge. Raising the temp to 165-168 will help liquefy the sugars to help "wash" or sparge more out of the grains.

I am wondering what sugars can be liquefied here? I mean isnt that the point of the mashing in the 1st place?

I think a method of a 60-min mashing with 7.24 gallons and then "dunk sparge" with 2 gallons should be more than enough, right? The 2 gallons should wash the extra sugar of the grains....but correct me if I am wrong. You might be totally right that mashing at 150F dont liquefy all the sugar and a mashout at higher temperature is needed. I really dont know.

 

[Yooper]

I am wondering what sugars can be liquefied here? I mean isnt that the point of the mashing in the 1st place?

I think a method of a 60-min mashing with 7.24 gallons and then "dunk sparge" with 2 gallons should be more than enough, right? The 2 gallons should wash the extra sugar of the grains....but correct me if I am wrong. You might be totally right that mashing at 150F dont liquefy all the sugar and a mashout at higher temperature is needed. I really dont know.

Sugars are more soluable at higher temperatures- but you can sparge with cold water if you want to and it doesn't seem to matter whether the sparge water is warmer or colder as far as extraction goes.

Sparging up to your boil volume would be fine.

 

[BigFloyd]

Oh, then you don't even need to think about a mash out. Pull out your grain bag, and turn on the heat. That will do a mash out on the way to a boil. Easy as can be.

Yep. I let the bag hang over the keggle to drain, then squeeze it using a couple of saucepan lids. I'll sometimes mash-out, but if I had to do more than push a button to raise up to 170*F, I wouldn't bother.

Why do you think it's necessary to mash this at or below 150*F? Are you seeking a dry character in this beer? For the kind of pale ale you're talking about (emphasis on flavor/aroma, maybe mid 30's IBU), I'd be mashing at 152-153*F to provide a little maltiness to balance the spiciness of the late addition hops. I've got a summer pale (Warrior,60/Citra,5/Amarillo,0) fermenting right now for which I did just that.

 

[wilserbrewer]

A "mash-out" might be useful in your BIAB where you don't sparge. Raising the temp to 165-168 will help liquefy the sugars to help "wash" or sparge more out of the grains.

With all due respect, I thought this myth was busted. All the sugar in the mash will be liquid at 150, raising to 170 will not make them any more liquid and will not help "wash" or sparge more sugar out of the grains. At least that is what the respected "Kal" said, more or less I believe.

 

[Elysium]

With all due respect, I thought this myth was busted. All the sugar in the mash will be liquid at 150, raising to 170 will not make them any more liquid and will not help "wash" or sparge more sugar out of the grains. At least that is what the respected "Kal" said, more or less I believe.

That's why I think after the one-hour mash, I will just do the dunk sparge and that's it.....start the boil.
Oh, and I still have to get back to you about the bag.....we received it last week (my friend from the USA didnt come to visit till last week) and havent tried it yet. We really like the material, the stitches and the design. Thanks a lot.

 

[Johnnyhitch1]

With all due respect, I thought this myth was busted. All the sugar in the mash will be liquid at 150, raising to 170 will not make them any more liquid and will not help "wash" or sparge more sugar out of the grains. At least that is what the respected "Kal" said, more or less I believe.

Interesting...never heard of this being a myth.
I would think that from 150 to 170 there would be a higher solubility (sp?) of sugars, and at the lower temp will make them "gummy" or "sticky" hence the reason I mentioned about "washing" of the grain.

Hey thx for pointing that out though! You learn something new everyday.

 

[Yooper]

Interesting...never heard of this being a myth.
I would think that from 150 to 170 there would be a higher solubility (sp?) of sugars, and at the lower temp will make them "gummy" or "sticky" hence the reason I mentioned about "washing" of the grain.

Hey thx for pointing that out though! You learn something new everyday.

Yes, you'd think so. That's why Kai's experiments are so cool! I think this is written up on his braukaiser.com website, along with other interesting information on brewing science.

 

[BigFloyd]

Yes, you'd think so. That's why Kai's experiments are so cool! I think this is written up on his braukaiser.com website, along with other interesting information on brewing science.

Here's another two thumbs up for the braukaiser.com site. Excellent stuff.

 

[dgr]

If you want a high attenuation, mash longer or do a two step mash. I would start lower than 150.

There is no point in doing a mash out in biab. Pull your bag, start your burner and let it rip. You can muck around with the bag while the majority of the wort is coming to a boil.

 

[RM-MN]

Interesting...never heard of this being a myth.
I would think that from 150 to 170 there would be a higher solubility (sp?) of sugars, and at the lower temp will make them "gummy" or "sticky" hence the reason I mentioned about "washing" of the grain.

Hey thx for pointing that out though! You learn something new everyday.

It's not a myth, solubility increases with temperature but the increase may not be measurable at the home brew level.

Sugars are more soluable at higher temperatures- but you can sparge with cold water if you want to and it doesn't seem to matter whether the sparge water is warmer or colder as far as extraction goes.

Unless you add a lot of water, the grains quickly heat it up to increase the solubility of the sugar. Again, further increases in temperature don't have much effect so they aren't worth worrying about.