Do I make a lager starter at lager temps?

[zacster]

Should I make my lager starter at 52-54, or is 68 the right thing to do? I think I've always done them at room temp and then chilled them before pitching, but since I just finished putting it together I thought I'd ask. It would make sense that the lower temp would be better, but is it?

The yeast is Wyeast Bohemian Lager, and yes I'm using a stir plate. It is about 1.8 liters, just shy of the 2 I started with.

 

[Beernik]

I did with my most recent one. I figure the closer it is to the type of environment it is going to ferment in, the better.

 

[Curtis2010]

Same temps as target ferm temps made sense to me too, but in their book "Yeast" (I'm reading now) White and Zainasheff recommend 65F - 75F for both lager and ale starters (maybe favoring the cooler end of this range for lagers). Their logic being that the primary purpose of a starter is propogate more cells and propogation rates are slower at lower temps.

Also seems reasonable to me to keep the starter temps within the temp ranges recommended by the lab for the specific strain. Using the upper ranges for starters.

For example, Wyeast Bohemian Lager has a recommended range of 45-68F, so a starter temp of 68F fits in W & Z's recommemded range and does not exceed the max recommended temp of the lab for the strain.

 

[Paradingbull]

Everything I have read on lager yeast starters is make them at room temperature, when done refrigerate a few hours to settle the yeast, decant most of the starter liquid, then pitch the remaining yeast slurry when it and the wort are at your target pitching temperature.

 

[zacster]

I decided to try the starter at cold temps, and had it going since 6pm yesterday on my stir plate. When I checked the temperature of the room this morning it was only 40 degrees! I brought the starter inside and set it up at room temps. I could see that it was active in the cold, but not as much as it would be if warmer.

Meanwhile, I've got the grain in the bag in the water mashing. I'll get it all ready and just let it cool down to pitching temps and wait for the yeast to be ready, maybe by tomorrow morning.

 

[Weezy]

You're making yeast, not beer. Warmer than normal temps and continuous aeration are par for the course.

 

[Beernik]

I agree the we are making yeast. But it's also artificial selection. Do you want to grow yeast that like 65 - 75F or ones that like 45 - 52F? Growth is slower, but what is a couple extra days?

 

[MeBrew2]

It would be an interesting thing to split a volume of wort and pitch one with yeast started warmer and one with yeast started at target primary temp...and see if the flavor differences are detectable.

 

[Weezy]

I agree the we are making yeast. But it's also artificial selection. Do you want to grow yeast that like 65 - 75F or ones that like 45 - 52F? Growth is slower, but what is a couple extra days?

White's and JZ's yeast book disagree with this. Have a link discussing this concept? yeast can mutate over generations. Yeast can die. I haven't seen anything suggest the same exact yeast strain & generation would differentiate itself by some temperature preference.

 

[Beernik]

I don't have a link. It's my supposition (or sip addition as my iPhone autocorrects). My supposition is that the closer the starter is to actual fermenting conditions, the better it is for the yeast. There are, however a couple exceptions. You want oxygen entrained in the starter because it promotes healthy yeast walls. You also want a low gravity starter because that also reduces yeast stress.

But otherwise, my opinion is that you want everything else (I.e. food source, temperature) to be close to the fermenting conditions, because that will also reduce yeast stress.

Also, I just made my first two lagers that didn't produce any detectable diacetyl either a cold or warm sample.