Do I have an infection?

[homebrewdr]

I've been brewing for over 2 years and never have had an infection. Today I open up my California Common, and there is a white, chalky, some bubbly top to it. Its been in the primary for 3-4 weeks. i've attached the picture. I'm not sure if its just the yeast rising due to the rise in temperature, or what.

The thing is I've never used san fransico lager yeast before, so I'm thinking its something to do with that strand of yeast? In fact, I've never attempted using a lager yeast at all, so maybe lagers do this?

It tastes fine, other than getting some of that chalky stuff in my sample. It seems to be only on top.

My instinct is to bottle it up. Gravity is hovering around 1.025, which is a little high, but the OG was something like 1.078. High for the style but I'm not following style guidelines.

What you guys think. Infection or not? Thanks

 

[cyanmonkey]

It looks like an infection. I've had that same kind of thing before and the brew actually tasted fine and I was able to bottle, carbonate, and drink them all with no ill effect. I'd say if it tastes ok...go for it.

Although your fg is really high...

 

[homebrewdr]

It looks like an infection. I've had that same kind of thing before and the brew actually tasted fine and I was able to bottle, carbonate, and drink them all with no ill effect. I'd say if it tastes ok...go for it.

Although your fg is really high...

Gravity is high, but is on par with the yeast efficiency ((78-25)/1.025)=68%. San Fran Lager yeast is 65-70% efficiency for malt-forwardness. I guess its more of an imperial California common if you will.

I think I'll be bottling this batch up in 2-3 days, to ensure the gravity isn't still dropping for some reason.

 

[joshesmusica]

Gravity is high, but is on par with the yeast efficiency ((78-25)/1.025)=68%. San Fran Lager yeast is 65-70% efficiency for malt-forwardness. I guess its more of an imperial California common if you will.

I think I'll be bottling this batch up in 2-3 days, to ensure the gravity isn't still dropping for some reason.

if it is an infection, my guess is that the gravity will continue dropping...

 

[Yooper]

It's definitely infected. The large headspace is probably to blame, as it's got a definite pellicle.

 

[cyanmonkey]

It's definitely infected. The large headspace is probably to blame, as it's got a definite pellicle.

What does headspace have to do with it?

 

[homebrewdr]

if it is an infection, my guess is that the gravity will continue dropping...

True. I'm pretty confident it hasn't dropped much over the course of the 2-3 weeks since I last checked. Whatever it is, its only on the surface. The rest of it is clear and good tasting. I think ill go ahead, skim it off, and bottle it up tonight or tomorrow. I'll check in a few days to see if I have gushers. If I do, I can perform a quick heat pasteurization to avoid bottle bombs.

 

[joshesmusica]

interesting. it definitely looks infected. but if it hasn't dropped in sg, maybe it's mold? i honestly have no clue as to the biological components going on, i just know if it's some kind of bacterial infection, the sg should continue to drop. guess you'll know after you test it.

 

[beergolf]

The large headspace is probably to blame, as it's got a definite pellicle.
__________________

It does have a definite pelicile, but I do not agree that the headspace is the problem at 3 -4 weeks in the fermenter. It was infected by something. Either you had an infection in the fermenter or some other place. Excessive headspace will not cause an infection. It will let it grow but will not cause it.

I brew in buckets all the time and have that amount of headspace. Due to my schedule I almost always leave my brew in the bucket for 3-4 weeks. Never had an infection.

 

[IslandLizard]

Aside from improper or incomplete sanitation practices before filling fermentors, opening buckets can be a big problem if the lid area and underside of the lid-rim isn't sanitized thoroughly. The large open surface of beer being exposed after removing the lid is also inviting for things to drop in. The headspace CO2 is mixed and replaced with air within a few seconds. Airborne bugs can settle in.

Looks like a lactobacillus infection. It will likely sour over time, given the high FG.

Bottle, then after a brief carbonation period, refrigerate, and drink quickly (2-4 weeks). Watch out for bottle bombs.

I don't open my buckets until ready to bottle or keg. I snake a skinny 1/4" tube down the grommet hole and siphon some beer out for a gravity test. You could peek inside if you must, without removing the lid. This prevents the CO2 from escaping and keeps things nicely covered.

When ready to open, really clean and sanitize the lid and rim area underneath using a Starsan soaked rag and/or spray bottle.

 

[brew_ny]

nothing that penicillin wouldn't cure

 

[cyanmonkey]

Curious how you can tell it's lacto.

 

[IslandLizard]

Curious how you can tell it's lacto.

No, I can't tell for sure it's lacto, but it has the looks of it, white, chalky, the "broken ice" surface, and bubbles. Could be a wild yeast, some other bug, or a nice melange going to town. Wild yeast usually give foamy, creamy appearances, but rarely come alone.

Definitely infected, as you said.

It could have been introduced when the OP made a starter (hopefully), or during chilling the wort. Grain dust and flour are a good source of bugs, as is not so clean equipment, racking canes, hoses, wine thiefs, etc. It's up to the OP to review his methods and see where and when the introduction could have taken place, to avoid it next time. How many times was that lid removed?

 

[Yooper]

Aside from improper or incomplete sanitation practices before filling fermentors, opening buckets can be a big problem if the lid area and underside of the lid-rim isn't sanitized thoroughly. The large open surface of beer being exposed after removing the lid is also inviting for things to drop in. The headspace CO2 is mixed and replaced with air within a few seconds. Airborne bugs can settle in.

Looks like a lactobacillus infection. It will likely sour over time, given the high FG.

Bottle, then after a brief carbonation period, refrigerate, and drink quickly (2-4 weeks). Watch out for bottle bombs.

I don't open my buckets until ready to bottle or keg. I snake a skinny 1/4" tube down the grommet hole and siphon some beer out for a gravity test. You could peek inside if you must, without removing the lid. This prevents the CO2 from escaping and keeps things nicely covered.

When ready to open, really clean and sanitize the lid and rim area underneath using a Starsan soaked rag and/or spray bottle.

Yes. The wort itself is never 100% bacteria/wild yeast free, just because the air around us isn't. Still, with good sanitation, and proper yeast pitching, our chosen yeast strain can outcompete the other microbes.

But the large headspace after fermentation ends and/or a bucket that doesn't seal as tightly as a carboy means that any microbes in there have some time to take hold. You won't see an infection like that in a 10 day old fermentation, usually, unless sanitation was lacking, but it's not that uncommon in a bucket that has been opened a few times and has been sitting for 3-4 weeks.

I don't know my pellicles, so I can't say if it's something like brett or lacto, but since grain is covered with lacto and there is usually lacto and/or wild yeast everywhere (one of the ways you make sourdough starter), it's not a bad guess.

 

[homebrewdr]

No, I can't tell for sure it's lacto, but it has the looks of it, white, chalky, the "broken ice" surface, and bubbles. Could be a wild yeast, some other bug, or a nice melange going to town. Wild yeast usually give foamy, creamy appearances, but rarely come alone.

Definitely infected, as you said.

It could have been introduced when the OP made a starter (hopefully), or during chilling the wort. Grain dust and flour are a good source of bugs, as is not so clean equipment, racking canes, hoses, wine thiefs, etc. It's up to the OP to review his methods and see where and when the introduction could have taken place, to avoid it next time. How many times was that lid removed?

The lid was removed twice. First time a week into primary to make sure it took off. At that time it was fine. 2nd time was approximately 2 weeks after that in hopes of bottling, but noticed the film on top. I think I may have introduced something after opening the lid the first time, but I don't recall the possibilities. I haven't ever had a problem with infected batches over the course of about 3 years now, so I assume it was just an isolated incident. Everything was sanitized, and double or triple sanitized as usual. I make 2 batches around the same time, usually checking on them at the same time, and the other batch (el dorado pale ale) is fine. Maybe a hair or something slipped in, is my only thought.

Like I said, it tastes fine just has the lacto-like film on top. I know what lacto looks like because I have a couple small batch gallons set aside as an experiment.

I'm gonna give it another look tomorrow to see if the gravity has dropped any. Either way, I've got no problem skimming it, bottling it, and going through that batch rather quickly. Its not a beer that requires much maturation. If I start getting gushers, ill kill everything off with a heat pasteurization.

Assuming its lacto, should I discard the fermenter?

 

[IslandLizard]

To check if it "took off" you can look down the grommet hole. Use a flashlight if needed.

You're 3 years in without infections, you know the lay of the land. Could have been a fluke.

The rim/lid area is very susceptible to harboring bugs. Particularly if foam/krausen oozed out. I always mop it with a Starsan soaked rag before opening. I keep a small bucket with Starsan around just for that purpose. Then spray it too. The grommet area itself can be a bugtrap. After removing the lid, I always wipe the bucket rim with said rag. I would prefer to push the beer out with CO2, like I did with carboys, but without a seal in the lid's rim that's not going to happen. Someone in our brew club has a self priming pump, which was great when filling a barrel from 11 cornies. But that's more equipment to clean.

I have some smaller fermentor buckets. I drilled a larger hole in the lid that holds a bung with airlock. It provides a better inspection hole, and easier access. Those have screw lids, which is a whole different issue on sanitation before opening.

No need to discard that bucket, even if it has some scratches. Clean and sanitize well. Soak in bleach for a few days if you want to be sure. I did that with a bucket that developed some mold after I forgot to clean it.