DMS in DME Starter Wort?

[Sc0ttyt^]

Back on 8/9/21, I made a bulk batch of 1.040 SG starter wort using Briess Pilsner DME purchased 5/26/21. I poured the boiling starter wort into sanitized jars and let them cool/seal. 8 jars in total and all of them sealed fine. I did however notice each jar had what appeared to be break material resting at the bottom. I didn't think much of it. The other day I used the first one to make a starter with some GY021 Kolsch yeast. I decanted the wort off the break material and proceeded to make a starter just fine, but noticed the "break material" was gray and gross. It also smelled like Campbells condensed tomato soup. After a quick search it seems that would indicate DMS, but I couldn't find any evidence this is possible when using DME. Any thoughts? I plan to split the overbuilt starter and give a smell/taste before pitching into my Kolsch, but it seems fine so i'm not too worried yet.

 

[IslandLizard]

If you're cold crashing and decanting the starter beer, then pitch (some of) the slurry into your batch, you won't be pitching the yucky oxidized starter beer into your craftily prepared batch of wort...
Not that when dumping it all in, anyone has ever reported being able to taste it, from what I've read. 2 liters in ~21 liters, ~10% of crappy starter beer with no adverse effects. Quite remarkable!

Re: Starter sediment
Yup, we all get that. Perhaps proteins and other insoluble matter? Condensing wort to LME, then DME takes heat, evaporation, then spraying fine droplets that are desiccated. Undoubtedly this abuse causes some stuff to precipitate out.
I doubt it's harmful to us, the yeast, or the beer, it may well be beneficial (nutrients?).

 

[Sc0ttyt^]

Thanks, happy to hear sediment is normal in starter wort prepared from DME. Im still a bit thrown off by tomato soup smell of the starter wort but oh well.. The finished yeast starter smelled completely normal so I decanted and pitched as usual.

 

[gallahis]

You might be able to reduce the DMS if you use a darker DME (or darker malt if doing an all-grain batch of starters). Based on my googling, pilsner malt can have 8x the DMS potential as darker malts, even pale malt. Apparently, the kilning process helps reduce DMS. Learned a lot here.

 

[marc1]

Back on 8/9/21, I made a bulk batch of 1.040 SG starter wort using Briess Pilsner DME purchased 5/26/21. I poured the boiling starter wort into sanitized jars and let them cool/seal. 8 jars in total and all of them sealed fine. I did however notice each jar had what appeared to be break material resting at the bottom. I didn't think much of it. The other day I used the first one to make a starter with some GY021 Kolsch yeast. I decanted the wort off the break material and proceeded to make a starter just fine, but noticed the "break material" was gray and gross. It also smelled like Campbells condensed tomato soup. After a quick search it seems that would indicate DMS, but I couldn't find any evidence this is possible when using DME. Any thoughts? I plan to split the overbuilt starter and give a smell/taste before pitching into my Kolsch, but it seems fine so i'm not too worried yet.

Because wort is a low acid food, regular canning through boiling is not sufficient to ensure that nasties won't grow in it. I pressure can mine to help preclude botulism.

That said, I haven't heard of anyone having a problem with non-pressure canned wort, although unless someone posted to a forum about it, I don't think I would. The fact that it it smells and looks gross upon opening, however, would lead me to discard any canned food, wort included.

For peace of mind, pressure can your next batches.

 

[Sc0ttyt^]

You might be able to reduce the DMS if you use a darker DME (or darker malt if doing an all-grain batch of starters). Based on my googling, pilsner malt can have 8x the DMS potential as darker malts, even pale malt. Apparently, the kilning process helps reduce DMS. Learned a lot here.

Dang, I just bought 3lbs of Pilsen DME for starters last night...

Because wort is a low acid food, regular canning through boiling is not sufficient to ensure that nasties won't grow in it. I pressure can mine to help preclude botulism.

I did read that before. I have been boiling before use as an added precaution, but this significantly reduces the benefit of having canned wort in the first place. I simply couldn't justify buying a pressure canner for this purpose, yet. Looks like its back to mixing DME at time of use for a while. I finally picked up some FermCap so that will hopefully help boiling in the flasks. I don't get the most even heating on my glass cooktop and boil-overs are a pain to clean.

The fact that it it smells and looks gross upon opening, however, would lead me to discard any canned food, wort included.

Surprisingly, I've found the same result after brewing an all grain batch for canning starter wort. Maybe I get extra trub and/or hot break from such a fine crush and BIAB.

 

[marc1]

Dang, I just bought 3lbs of Pilsen DME for starters last night...


I did read that before. I have been boiling before use as an added precaution, but this significantly reduces the benefit of having canned wort in the first place. I simply couldn't justify buying a pressure canner for this purpose, yet. Looks like its back to mixing DME at time of use for a while. I finally picked up some FermCap so that will hopefully help boiling in the flasks. I don't get the most even heating on my glass cooktop and boil-overs are a pain to clean.


Surprisingly, I've found the same result after brewing an all grain batch for canning starter wort. Maybe I get extra trub and/or hot break from such a fine crush and BIAB.

You'll get some break material, but it shouldn't be gross looking and smelling. After pressure canning, it definitely gets darker, and can have break material in chunks in the bottom, but it still smells wort-ish.

If you wanted to make it all grain to save some $$$ over DME, you could freeze the jars.

Lots of discussion here:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/all-grain-canned-wort-so-far-so-good.676790/

 

[Sc0ttyt^]

Lots of discussion here:

Thanks, good read.