Disappointing sample bottle.

[venquessa]

Yes it's only 5 days old, but in clear plastic bottles I can see exactly what is going on and that is exactly nothing.

Coopers lager + 1Kg brew enhancer.

Fermentation stalled/stopped at 1.018 and after it stayed stuck at 1.018 for 3 days I bottled it with what I figured was too much priming sugar.

Well, the settled out to completely clear in 3 days. Hardly any sediment at the bottom and... I opened a sample to check it tonight and...

Totally flat. Slightly sweet, slight cidary taste.

My first batch when I sampled one at 3 days had 'some' fizz and they were well under primed. These over primed bottles have absolutely no fizz. I even tried aerating the pour by pouring it harshly into the glass from nearly a foot above. That got me about 3 bubbles that promptly burst.

Something makes me think my yeast died at 1018 and they are just going to settle to the bottom and not secondary ferment.

I have roused all the bottles until the sediment has cleared off the bottom and I'll try another next Friday.

If they are flat, they are flat, I'll drink it.

On the plus side... it tastes like a sharp sweet lager. I know commercial lagers that have that citrusy/cidery sharp bite! It's actually very easy to drink and quite refreshing.... just flat.

I know you are going to tell me to leave them for umpteen weeks, but I have only planned 2 weeks in bottles for these guys. As my pipeline comes up to speed I can let bears age more.

I honestly don't expect them to carb.

One final test is to put this bottle down me and I'll be able to tell the alcohol content by what I feel. I expect it's going to be quite low. 3% at most, when it should by 5%.

Paul

 

[chiguy]

Is it possible that your priming sugar wasn't mixed well? Have you tried bottles from different stages in the bottling? Or maybe the bottles are too cold for the yeast to do their thing?

I'm 24 hours from opening a test bottle from my first batch, also Coopers (the stout) so I'm right there with you. My estimated alcohol content is also low...just under 3.5% or so.

 

[venquessa]

They were...

* bottled with a bottle wand into 1 litre PET bottles, bleached and rinsed. (Actually there was more fizz in it coming out of the barrel than there is in it now. )
* Primed with brewers sugar, 1 large heaped teaspoon, probably about 10g per litre bottle.
* Beer, then sugar, via a funnel, then capped before the foam sprayed everywhere.
* Bottles inverted several times, but to be honest they were at that stage just a bottle of foam as the sugar dissolved.
* Stored at 70F-80F

They settled in 3 days to crystal clear. Bottles 'felt' under pressure, but when opened slowly there was barely a "psst".

Test bottle was refrigerated to about 5C over 24hrs.

There is a chance I've picked a bad bottle for a sample. Hell maybe I forgot the sugar in this one, but... it looks exactly like they all do now. Very little sediment, if shook up, they clear in a day or two (I test shook one bottle previously).

 

[unionrdr]

At 3 days you're still tasting flat,green beer. now that you know what that tastes like,leave'em for 3 weeks. you absolutely cannot rush the process. it does take a minimum of three weeks at 70F to do the deed.
But why not move'em to a really warm spot,say 70-80F so they warm up? That'll def get things going a little bit faster. Kinda like doing the same thing in summer with no A/C. I've had some pale ales carb well in 10 days flat at those temps. But conditioning can't be sped up. That'll take another 2 weeks or so,dpending on the brew.
& you beet me to the post,70-80 should've worked. Did you rinse the bleach solution well with hot water? It may've killed any head & carbonation that would've been had. But 3 days is never enough..

 

[Homercidal]

3 days? Forget about them for 3 weeks.

 

[venquessa]

5 days, I just, I don't know, expected some carbonation. It doesn't 'taste' bad.

 

[paulster2626]

My first batch I did the same thing. Took a video and everything, only to open up a totally flat beer. Kinda funny actually.

2 weeks later they were carbed and delicious. The only thing you have left to do now is wait.

 

[Revvy]

5 days, I just, I don't know, expected some carbonation. It doesn't 'taste' bad.

Don't expect anything that more than likely won't occur and you won't be dissappointed.


When we talk about waiting, we're not doing it to yank your chains, or to deprive you of your beer, we're telling you that because that's the truth....

No, you SHOULDN'T expect anything at 5 days, most beers don't do anything, even go pfft, at 5 days....Some might, but the vast, vast majority don't. Doesn't mean anything's wrong, just that you're impatient.

The 3 weeks at 70 degrees, that we recommend is the minimum time it takes for average gravity beers to carbonate and condition. Higher grav beers take longer.

Stouts and porters have taken me between 6 and 8 weeks to carb up..I have a 1.090 Belgian strong that took three months to carb up.


Temp and gravity are the two factors that contribute to the time it takes to carb beer. But if a beer's not ready yet, or seems low carbed, and you added the right amount of sugar to it, then it's not stalled, it's just not time yet.

Everything you need to know about carbing and conditioning, can be found here Of Patience and Bottle Conditioning. With emphasis on the word, "patience."

If a beer isn't carbed by "x number of weeks" you just have to give them more time. If you added your sugar, then the beer will carb up eventually, it's really a foolroof process. All beers will carb up eventually. A lot of new brewers think they have to "troubleshoot" a bottling issue, when there really is none, the beer knows how to carb itself. In fact if you run beersmiths carbing calculator, some lower grav beers don't even require additional sugar to reach their minimum level of carbonation. Just time.

I've carbed hundreds of gallons of beer, and never had a beer that wasn't carbed, or under carbed or anything of the sort (Except for a batch where I accidently mixed up lactose or Maltodextrine for priming sugar). Some took awhile, (as I said up to six months) but they ALL eventually carbed.

 

[J187]

5 days, I just, I don't know, expected some carbonation. It doesn't 'taste' bad.

Why? I wouldn't have checked it that early, let alone expected carbonation. Dude, sounds like you did everything right. Just let it happen. Be patient and have some faith. When I was researching carbonation I heard SO many stories of "I checked after 7 days and NOTHING, then I checked again after another 7 and it was a full 2.5".

 

[J187]

Don't expect anything that more than likely won't occur and you won't be dissappointed.


When we talk about waiting, we're not doing it to yank your chains, or to deprive you of your beer, we're telling you that because that's the truth....

No, you SHOULDN'T expect anything at 5 days, most beers don't do anything, even go pfft, at 5 days....Some might, but the vast, vast majority don't. Doesn't mean anything's wrong, just that you're impatient.

The 3 weeks at 70 degrees, that we recommend is the minimum time it takes for average gravity beers to carbonate and condition. Higher grav beers take longer.

Stouts and porters have taken me between 6 and 8 weeks to carb up..I have a 1.090 Belgian strong that took three months to carb up.


Temp and gravity are the two factors that contribute to the time it takes to carb beer. But if a beer's not ready yet, or seems low carbed, and you added the right amount of sugar to it, then it's not stalled, it's just not time yet.

Everything you need to know about carbing and conditioning, can be found here Of Patience and Bottle Conditioning. With emphasis on the word, "patience."

If a beer isn't carbed by "x number of weeks" you just have to give them more time. If you added your sugar, then the beer will carb up eventually, it's really a foolroof process. All beers will carb up eventually. A lot of new brewers think they have to "troubleshoot" a bottling issue, when there really is none, the beer knows how to carb itself. In fact if you run beersmiths carbing calculator, some lower grav beers don't even require additional sugar to reach their minimum level of carbonation. Just time.

I've carbed hundreds of gallons of beer, and never had a beer that wasn't carbed, or under carbed or anything of the sort (Except for a batch where I accidently mixed up lactose or Maltodextrine for priming sugar). Some took awhile, (as I said up to six months) but they ALL eventually carbed.

Just out of curiosity, did you try to fix the batch where you used non-fermentable sugar to prime and if so, how'd that go?

 

[Revvy]

Just out of curiosity, did you try to fix the batch where you used non-fermentable sugar to prime and if so, how'd that go?

Nope, I left it alone....I think it might have been malto dextrine and not lactose, and they've sort of carbed up a bit. It's about as carbed as an english bitter. I still have quite a few bottles left of it though. I don't drink it too often.

I might grab one tonight though.....

If anything since it's a wit (my Hoegaarden clone) it's good to put in Welsh Rarebit, or cheese fondue or beer cheese soup, so it's not a total write off.

 

[HopHeadGrady]

I just brewed the same Coopers OG Lager. I added some vienna and pale malt though and made a mini mash. Added some saaz. When I opened my first bottle to check it after 5 days it was like eating a green banana. A couple weeks later and it's fantastic. Let em sit, if you like em now, you will LOVE em in a couple weeks. I know what you mean about that sharp taste. I love it. Combines with the saaz its 'like' a lager.

Im having one right now ~*~*~

Good work, let me sit for a bit and enjoy.

 

[J187]

Nope, I left it alone....I think it might have been malto dextrine and not lactose, and they've sort of carbed up a bit. It's about as carbed as an english bitter. I still have quite a few bottles left of it though. I don't drink it too often.

I might grab one tonight though.....

If anything since it's a wit (my Hoegaarden clone) it's good to put in Welsh Rarebit, or cheese fondue or beer cheese soup, so it's not a total write off.

I see. Not a total loss I guess then. I was mostly curious to know what that lactose (if that's what it had been) did to the taste of it, given the style.

 

[Revvy]

I see. Not a total loss I guess then. I was mostly curious to know what that lactose (if that's what it had been) did to the taste of it, given the style.

I don't know that 5 ounces of Lactose in a 5 gallon batch of beer would be/have been all that noticeable anyway.

 

[venquessa]

When we talk about waiting, we're not doing it to yank your chains, or to deprive you of your beer, we're telling you that because that's the truth....

To be frank, I figured that being home brew experts you'd grown a bit fussy, and that you were probably right that it will reach it's best in umpteen weeks, but as a newbie I expected it to be "an indication" of it's real self after 5 days. I'd expect it to be perfectly drinkable after 2 weeks, by the time I start to end the batch, it will be 4 to 5 weeks old when I expect it will be close to as good as it will get. and it WILL be as good as it's going to get, cause I'm going to drink it.

If I get a supply building up, then more of my beer will age longer before drinking. But early on, I am hoping beer can be drunk after 2 weeks in the bottle, although my pipeline schedule will include a 3 week conditioning.

 

[unionrdr]

The OS lager was decent at 3 weeks,better at 4. 2 weeks & it was still a little young. Sorry if it doesn't fit the ol' schedule. But conditioning takes a bit longer than carbonating. I've found this to be true time & time again.

 

[Revvy]

But early on, I am hoping beer can be drunk after 2 weeks in the bottle...

Well, you can hope all you want, but that doesn't mean, if the time isn't right, that you'll get your way. I keep hoping to go home one day and fine twin Irish redheaded models wearing nothing but fishnet and a smile, to be waiting for me in my bedroom....It hasn't happened yet.

You gott realize that you're not in charge, the yeast are. I know it's a hard pill to swallow, but the yeast are the bosses, not us. Once we pitch the yeast, our hands are off the wheel. The yeast has their timeframe, and it's usually different from an impatient noobs.

Sorry. We're not making koolaid here. It's not ready when you stir it, it's a natural, organic process.

 

[unionrdr]

Say revs,do brunettes in fishnets count? I was the happy recipient of that several times in my youth... Couldn't resist,this Burton ale is a nice lil warmer on this cold afternoon.:cross:

 

[J187]

To be frank, I figured that being home brew experts you'd grown a bit fussy, and that you were probably right that it will reach it's best in umpteen weeks, but as a newbie I expected it to be "an indication" of it's real self after 5 days. I'd expect it to be perfectly drinkable after 2 weeks, by the time I start to end the batch, it will be 4 to 5 weeks old when I expect it will be close to as good as it will get. and it WILL be as good as it's going to get, cause I'm going to drink it.

If I get a supply building up, then more of my beer will age longer before drinking. But early on, I am hoping beer can be drunk after 2 weeks in the bottle, although my pipeline schedule will include a 3 week conditioning.

I don't know man, try to be patient with your impatience. What you SHOULD want, is to make a beer that will turn out the best it possibly can, within reason. You worked hard, don't sell yourself short by being impatient. Wait the MINIMUM conditioning out, and enjoy a few slowly. Let the rest finish. That way, you'll quench your thirst, produce some excellent beer, AND get to experience the difference a little extra patience makes.

 

[unionrdr]

I agree completely J. I'm enjoying one of my Buckeye Burton ales right now that's been in bottles for about 10 weeks now. Been in the fridge for about a week. Damn,it's good,& 6.8% to boot! So patience is indeed rewarded in this hobby.

 

[venquessa]

Well, in a moment of weakness (I'd had a few cans ) I tested another bottle.

So it's now, what, 10 days old. Chilled a bottle in the beer fridge (1C) for Friday tasting, but my alcohol impatience got the better of me and I thought, "what the heck..."

Opened the bottle and nothing, one or two bubbles at the surface. I knocked the bottom of the bottle on the table, nothing. My heart sank. "Another week at least then..."

But... I poured it into a glass and had to very quickly stop pouring as the beer instantly flashed into foam. Woohoo! Letting it settle for a minute in the glass and topped up to the full glass with the local standard 1cm head and... it continued to slowly bubble. Drinking the litre was very easy, it's quite a light, refreshing, lager-like beer.

Still has a 'young' taste, particularly in the head, a citrus, sharp tang, which mellows after you take the first sip. I'm putting that down to young age.

So it should be grand for drinking, given another week and will be even better by the time I get halfway through the batch.

Yes, I'm hurrying it a little, I know. I only have 48 bottles, but I have 20 bottles with beer and 44 bottles worth in FVs. I know I can leave the beer in the FV for weeks while the bottles become available, but I really want to move on past these kit+kilo and find out what my next beers taste like

I could of course buy more bottles and move the over-run bottles from a batch to "Vintage storage" for 6 -12 weeks.... just to see. In fact I have already kept 1 bottle from each batch just to see how they taste after 6-8 weeks or so.

 

[HopHeadGrady]

Nice! Another week or so and it will be perfect.
Your scenario was a lot like mine. I had a couple pints at the local here and didn't have any beer at home except 30 1L bottles of a Mash Extract that had only been in the bottle 7 days. I popped the top and the beer went down fine. Hey, it's beer... Haha.

My advice is try a mash extract recipe. That will get you used to working with grains and learning how to get your temps right etc on a smaller scale. I did a BIAB at a buddies and that is where I am headed next as far as brewing goes. However I have a couple quick mash extract recipes I will always have on the go cause they taste amazing and it's a quick brew. I could get a batch in when the wife is out shopping

 

[venquessa]

I'm fairly happy with this...

I need to manufacture a proper light stand for beer photos A 20c LED torch works, but doesn't really cut it.

Full size: http://www.campbell-multimedia.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/IMAG0304.jpg