LooyvilleLarry
Well-Known Member
I should have two of these in my hands on the 17th ! Maybe even get to try them out that weekend or around Christmas. I'm thinking this would not make a good New Years project
Digital sight glass
- Thread starter Yuri_Rage
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ajwillys
Well-Known Member
What about if you did something like this with a float but instead of a series of IR pairs, you just had a laser rangefinder (distance measurer) mounted to the top that would measure the precise distance the float is away from the top. This way, you would have digital and analog in one sight glass. :cross:
EDIT: Just a quick search, but I'm thinking something like this:
http://www.acuitylaser.com/AR200/index.shtml
I think you'd have a difficult time making sure the float was your target and we're back to wondering if the laser rangefinder would live in the environment.
Instead of a series of IR pairs, which would require a lot of wires to decode which pair, I was thinking of a series of small magnetic reed switches with a resistor array and have a small magnetic float. I was thinking of the reeds in a glass tube and a magnet on a foam donut around the tube. You would wire one side of all the reeds to a common and then each in series with a different resistor value and then to the sensor wire. The schematic would look like a ladder with a reed-resistor pair at each rung. Each closed reed would result in a different resistance across a single pair of leads and could easily be measured by an Arduino or similar.
For an external version, you might be able to float a small spherical magnet on top of a small float in the tube and then have the reed array glued to the outside of the tube.
The reed switches I'm thinking of are only about 1/2" long so you should be able to get 1/2" resolution. You could probably etch a long skinny circuit board and take advantage of SMD resistors
The ideal way to pull off a digital site glass would probably be with the capacitive technology they use in a lot of sending units. They work with an electrode in a tube that floods with the liquid being measured. The tube has a known capacitance and the liquid becomes an electrolyte. Flooding the tube changes the capacitance and the resulting measurement is converted to the level. They are expensive though and I wouldn't know how to make one.
1/2" resolution I don't think is going to be good enough. In a keggle, that is approaching 1/2 gallon. Of course, it really depends on just how accurate you want to be.
As for the laser idea, it would work and be very accurate, but you really want to price them before you decide. The ones we use are several hundred dollars!
As for the laser idea, it would work and be very accurate, but you really want to price them before you decide. The ones we use are several hundred dollars!
ajwillys
Well-Known Member
Oh yeah, I'm sure it would pricy. There's one on ebay right now for $300 obo (I didn't know ebay did that). The coolness factor of having digital and analog in one glass would be frickin' sweet.
I agree it's not ideal. In my kettle I'd only get closer to 1G resolution. But it would live in the enivornment and only needs 2 wires to work.
When I get some extra cash I'm going to pick up one of those ultrasonic sensors to play with.
Sometimes, simplicity is the dog's bollocks. I haven't tried the ultrasonic yet either. Hopefully, I can get enough brew on tap to last me long enough to take my system down for a bit to try it.
BrewBeemer
Well-Known Member
bull; on my Anheuser Bush 15.5 gallon kegs after doing one gallon fills with three different one gallon containers tested three times I came up with 1 1/4" height increase per/gallon added inside the keg. When across a roll ring it changed that measurement.To the brim measurement with the spear removed the error from three different gallon containers was only 2 oz and less. To the brim spear removed was exactly 2,000 ounces. Different manufractures of 15.5 kegs will have a slightly different diameter, this can be up to 3/8" in diameter. I recall the Jack Daneils keg was made in France. Did you know Jack made Bier? 1994 to 1997 only then quit and stayed with the hard liquor. A collectors item?
I have one rather clean Firestone 15.5 keg with the rectangle embossed windows on the skirts top and bottom. This is untouched with app 15 psi inside but empty. For someone that wants all their kegs to look the same by manufacture i'm looking to swap straight across for a same condition Anheuser Bush 15.5 keg so my kegs also are the same looking. Only thing involved would be shipping a same price swap for both parties by UPS ground.
Later........Carl...........
Hey Carl, good to hear from you again.
I guess your measurements would translate into 1/2" = 0.4gal. You brought up a point that I had yet to really consider. It is going to be very difficult to get an accurate volume measurement using distance because the vessel is not "linear". ie, 1/2" volume in the bottom is MUCH different than 1/2" in the middle of the keg.
I guess your measurements would translate into 1/2" = 0.4gal. You brought up a point that I had yet to really consider. It is going to be very difficult to get an accurate volume measurement using distance because the vessel is not "linear". ie, 1/2" volume in the bottom is MUCH different than 1/2" in the middle of the keg.
I hadn't thought about that. Once you figure out what each distance correlates to, it's pretty easy to write the calculation in the code. I have a straight wall kettle though, so I'm not worried about it.
phillc
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I just received my pressure sensor. I will be working on this soon. I have completed my digital temperature probes as well including most of the code. This will all be going live at the same time. I am using an Arduino board with a 20x4 LCD. So far, so good. Temperature will come from all three vessels. Volume will only come from the HLT and Kettle. I don't really see the need for volume measurement in the MLT as I will know how much went in, and how much comes out.
Can't you just measure the pressure somewhere low?.. like the bottom connection of a traditional sight glass?.. maybe even bring the sensor down to the same level as the bottom of the kettle (more difficult to clean). Variances in SG would make it difficult to be precise, but if you knew your pre-boil volume and SG you could plug that in to your software knowing that what is boiling off is 99% water and it could compensate for the SG change as it boils off. You'd be measuring mass instead of volume but I would think it would get you close enough.
phillc
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The sensor won't even be in or near the vessel. In my case, there is a 1/2 inch port welded into the side, attached to a 90 degree fitting, attached to a length of SS tube, attached to a rubber hose, attached to the sensor. Super easy to keep everything clean, and the sensor is never in any heat/moisture danger.
Corrected SG is necessary for the most accurate value, but I don't think it is that huge of a consideration for this application. I will be doing my homework, however, and this will be considered in software.
zakleeright
Well-Known Member
Hi PhillC, Yuri, et al;
Coming across this two years late, but wondering if any progress has been made? Did those Freescale pressure sensors work with your Arduino? Has anyone come up with a working "Digital site glass"?
Coming across this two years late, but wondering if any progress has been made? Did those Freescale pressure sensors work with your Arduino? Has anyone come up with a working "Digital site glass"?
Sawdustguy
Well-Known Member
Go to the Brewtroller site (www.brewtroller.com). It works with the brewtroller using a bubbler system.
zakleeright
Well-Known Member
Thanks! Lots of good info on your brewtroller site. Like you and Yuri, I'm interested in using Arduino to control brew processes. Unlike you guys, I've only been playing for a couple months now - I have it opening valves, and controlling 120/240VAC, in response to temp. readings, which I'm displaying on an LCD. Have two Arduino's communicating via the I2C bus, etc - proof-of-concept stuff...
Cheers
Cheers
Zaphod
Well-Known Member
Hey zakle, you have your code posted anywhere? I'd love to see it. I'm going through the same independent process right now. I'm a ways behind you as I have my arduino reading in temps from a couple one-wire sensors and displaying it on 20x4 LCD, that's all. Thanks!
zakleeright
Well-Known Member
Sir Beeblebrox,
I do not have them posted, but am certainly willing to share what I've done. I'm not much of a programmer, but fumbled around enough to get some proof-of-concepts working. Where's an appropriate place to post that stuff?
I do not have them posted, but am certainly willing to share what I've done. I'm not much of a programmer, but fumbled around enough to get some proof-of-concepts working. Where's an appropriate place to post that stuff?
Zaphod
Well-Known Member
That's a fine question. If you want to post it publicly, you can try out Google Code:
http://code.google.com/hosting/
Considering the arduino installs themselves along with plenty of other arduino projects are hosted there, I figure it's probably a good place to try.
http://code.google.com/hosting/
Considering the arduino installs themselves along with plenty of other arduino projects are hosted there, I figure it's probably a good place to try.
zakleeright
Well-Known Member
I've uploaded my crude code here.
http://code.google.com/p/arduino-brew-poc-v1-0/downloads/list
I'm not a programmer, so critique, better methods, etc are very welcome.
cheers
http://code.google.com/p/arduino-brew-poc-v1-0/downloads/list
I'm not a programmer, so critique, better methods, etc are very welcome.
cheers
zakleeright
Well-Known Member
Also might mention that I'm a bit torn between DIY and "semi-DYI" using the brewtroller. Those are very reasonable prices for those components, and would save a lot of dev time that could be devoted to brewing. Still going back/forth on that. Thinking about a mash-up of ideas from "TheElectricBrewery", Brewtroller, other sites, and mods of my own.
Zaphod
Well-Known Member
I appreciate you posting that zakle! I haven't gotten to look at it much yet. I recently snagged a OpenLog microSD datalogger from sparkfun and have been messing with that in my limited spare time.
cswank
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I tried a pressure sensor like this, but I had to go to something else because the pressure reading was fluctuating so much during the mash that I couldn't trust it.
I have a three tier system, and the hlt on top has a float switch. When the hlt is full, I know how much water is in it. I use that volume and an equation I found for water flowing through a hole to put a given amount of water in the mash tun. It has been working very well.
Just in case someone is interested: I control my brewery with a beagleboard and a python package that I wrote pyrobot.brewery. I've brewed about 10 batches so far with it and it is working well. It might be hard for someone besides me to use it because I don't have very good documentation so far, but if someone is interested in trying it out, I'd be glad to help. It would be a good excuse to document how to get it all set up.
I have a three tier system, and the hlt on top has a float switch. When the hlt is full, I know how much water is in it. I use that volume and an equation I found for water flowing through a hole to put a given amount of water in the mash tun. It has been working very well.
Just in case someone is interested: I control my brewery with a beagleboard and a python package that I wrote pyrobot.brewery. I've brewed about 10 batches so far with it and it is working well. It might be hard for someone besides me to use it because I don't have very good documentation so far, but if someone is interested in trying it out, I'd be glad to help. It would be a good excuse to document how to get it all set up.
OP
OP
Although the concept worked, I skipped this idea in favor of a simpler system. I finally decided I didn't need a completely automated brewery. I use a "calibrated" stick to measure volume. It works great, and the datalink from the stick to my eyes to my brain is pretty reliable.
zakleeright
Well-Known Member
I'm thinking of both, kind of. A brew friend has that pressure sensor/bubbler idea working fairly well, but I always like to "have a compass along with my GPS".
1. SS float attached to a rod.
2. Rod protrudes up out of vessel, held to a calibrated "backer-board" w/ screw eye-hooks.
3. Backer-board is calibrated in 1/2-gal marks
3. pointer on rod indicates fluid level by sight, So you have this real-time, old-school "stick-to-eye datalink", but it is at a glance, any time you care to look.
4. Point could also be used to trip hi & lo limit switches if you wanted to add some automation.
I haven't tried this yet, but thinking of trying it w/my new 25-gal electric brew system, about 70% complete
Cheers
1. SS float attached to a rod.
2. Rod protrudes up out of vessel, held to a calibrated "backer-board" w/ screw eye-hooks.
3. Backer-board is calibrated in 1/2-gal marks
3. pointer on rod indicates fluid level by sight, So you have this real-time, old-school "stick-to-eye datalink", but it is at a glance, any time you care to look.
4. Point could also be used to trip hi & lo limit switches if you wanted to add some automation.
I haven't tried this yet, but thinking of trying it w/my new 25-gal electric brew system, about 70% complete
Cheers
