Didn't pitch, it's fermenting. ???

[Davevjordon]

I'm going to go with it anyway (still pitch the yeast and carry on)... I brewed on Friday, didn't pitch the yeast yet. Today is Monday. It's literally been 3 full days. I'm getting my yeast ready for pitching. Note: this is a ten gallon batch, plot into two fermenters. One fermenter has been bubbling too much today, for not having yeast. I took a peak and it's developing a decent cake on top. The other one is fine. No activity. Do you think the one with activity has been contaminated? I figure there's no saving it if it has. I'm going to be pitching washed yeast into both. Just wondering if there's a smell I should be expecting if it went bad, or should I be seeing mold, or has this ever happened to anyone? I just figured: I've worried about many batches before, and they turned out fine. So I'm going to go forward and see what happens. Thoughts?

 

[Qhrumphf]

If you didn't pitch yeast yet, and you have fermentation, you have.... spontaneous fermentation. That absolutely means something unintended got into your brew. Whether or not the flavor profile will be amenable depends on what got in there, but you're likely headed towards a Brett/wild type beer. It could end up being a delicious sour/funky type beer. It could be rotten parmesan, stinky gym socks, and vomit. If you're seeing that this quickly, you need to revisit your cold side process. Most likely your fermenter cleaning is not up to snuff. Kettle ball valves and aeration stones are other likely culprits.

Option A): Let it ride, but super-clean and/or replace (safe answer is replace, but a complicated bleach bomb regimen is likely enough to rid whatever contaminant) all plastic equipment that has touched this batch, but given the speed of a spontaneous fermentation, I'd probably replace ALL cold side plastic as it's probably an endemic problem, rack it to a (glass) carboy, leave it for 6-12 mos and see what happens

Option B): Dump it, and again replace/super clean any plastic gear.

 

[Davevjordon]

Thank you very much. I've been waiting / expecting a batch to go bad sooner or later. I think I know where I cut the corner in cleaning that did me in: I didn't pull the o-ring of the fermentation bucket lid and scrub that separately. I know "you can't cut corners when cleaning & sanitizing", but I did. I felt it would be fine.

 

[NoIguanaForZ]

Thank you very much. I've been waiting / expecting a batch to go bad sooner or later. I think I know where I cut the corner in cleaning that did me in: I didn't pull the o-ring of the fermentation bucket lid and scrub that separately. I know "you can't cut corners when cleaning & sanitizing", but I did. I felt it would be fine.

In that case there's at least a chance you may be getting the yeast you pitched in the last batch, which is a +1 for wait and see.

 

[PKnotlost]

Why do you wait so long to pitch the yeast?

 

[jrgtr42]

Plus one on why did you wait so long?
However, I doubt it was the o-ring that caused your issue - unless you dunked it in the wort or had it soaked and water squirted down into the wort. Anyhting that may have been in there doesn't crawl around, it has to be moved. I don't think it was that because it took off so quickly. One drops' worth of bugs would get a hold like that in 3 days.
I think it's either in your cold side or more likely the fermenter itself - if you have another fermenter that's fine, I presume you used the same stuff all the way through and redirected the output from one to the other?
I would let it ride, get to the end of primary - krausen fall, and give a taste test. Dump if it's gross, or rack to a GLASS carboy and let sit if it's good. Don't bottle yet, there's probably still activity.
Dump the fermenter or repurpose to other uses, preferably away from the brewing equipment.

 

[mxstar21]

Might as well let it go and see if it turns into a decent sour. Probably have to toss everything anyway to be safe.

 

[bigdawg86]

So +3 why did you wait so long to pitch the yeast?

 

[boland]

sorry wrong thread...

 

[Davevjordon]

Why do you wait so long to pitch the yeast?

Honestly? To try and be “done” earlier. I got home early from work and got crackin’, wanted to be as close to “done” as possible by the time my wife came home from work. I was in the process of chilling the wort. All I had left to do after that was transfer it and clean my brew kettle and immersion wort chiller.
Oh, how I love hindsight.

 

[Davevjordon]

So, update:
One day since posting this, I remembered that when I grabbed my previously washed fermenters, one of them had a small amount of MOLD in the bottom. It easily sprayed loose with a hose and I dumped it, then washed it with PBW and sanitized it. I thought it was good.
Do you recommend I only use glass carboys?
Or if I continue to use plastic fermentation buckets, always leave them open to air dry? (Seems like a basic theory now, after the fact)
And I DID pitch yeast in the other fermenter, and I’ll see what happens.
Thank you, everyone, for your shared experience.

 

[myndflyte]

I think buckets are fine and are much easier to use than carboys but yeah I'd let your buckets air dry from now on. After a beer is done, you're cleaning it so just leave the lid off. Even if dust/dirt gets in the bucket by the time you brew again, it's going to get washed and sanitized so letting it dry out will help.

 

[ancientmariner52]

As to your original question: Has this ever happened before? Yes. At least once. To the lady or gentleman who discovered beer. Looking forward to the result of this accidental experiment.

 

[Davevjordon]

Well, ancientmariner, half of that batch is fermenting. Friday I should have an answer to how it turns out. I suspect it will be fine, because the other fermenter is the one that was contaminated. And I dumped that half. When I mentioned this issue to my local homebrew store (as I was buying supplies to brew again) he got all excited, saying “ooo!, you’re going to have a sour beer!”
Nope. I dumped that.

 

[ancientmariner52]

Too bad you had to dump it. Every time I brew, I hope for something wonderful, but secretly expect something awful. So far so good.

Seriously though, I'm pretty sure the folks who suggested a tiny little sanitation hiccup are on the right track.

 

[jan_b19]

Could a killer yeast be an option here? Never tried it with beer because well... they usually lack character but successfully solved a wine problem once!

 

[IslandLizard]

Sad to hear you dumped the one half. Accidental sours are 50/50, or rather 10/90, the odds being toward something you end up tossing. But once in awhile...

It still escapes me why you waited 3 days to pitch yeast. Especially knowing you has yeast on hand, and knowing your sanitation practices are far less than perfect.

I've kept boiled beer wort in the fridge (~38F) for 6 weeks in a plastic take-out container, without any infection problems. This was a test to prove something. Of course I didn't use the wort because of the real chance of botulism.

No need to throw out or repurpose the buckets that contained an infected batch, they can be cleaned and sanitized, nearly sterilized with the right methods. Even if they're a bit scratched.

In contrary to what was voiced here, I do think the lid's groove is a major infection area, difficult to clean and sanitize, even more so if there's a rubber seal in it that hasn't been removed.

Hope the second half fares better, and yields something drinkable, or even good.

 

[ncbrewer]

No need to throw out or repurpose the buckets that contained an infected batch, they can be cleaned and sanitized, nearly sterilized with the right methods. Even if they're a bit scratched.

I bleached my fermenter bucket after an infection, but it didn't help. I replaced it. I thought about filling with very hot water, but didn't want to risk more bad batches experimenting. I'm very interested in your method.

 

[IslandLizard]

I bleached my fermenter bucket after an infection, but it didn't help. I replaced it. I thought about filling with very hot water, but didn't want to risk more bad batches experimenting. I'm very interested in your method.

Not science, but this is what I've done with suspect fermentor buckets, and buckets that weren't "mine."

A good scrub with hot PBW and a stiff nylon brush followed by a good rinse. That cleans it. Pay attention to any suspect/discolored areas. Deep scratches may be an issue, but not necessarily detrimental. It's a certain width and depth that can be harder to eradicate them from, like a (deep) razor-like gouge.

Fill with a (real) bleach (NaClO) solution and soak for a couple days, empty out (maybe re-use in another bucket) and put outside in bright sunlight for a few days. The UV will sterilize and kill a lot of bugs that may still hide out in the "surface pores." Make sure all inside surfaces get irradiated for some time.

Mop the inside with Iodophor or IOStar, do not rinse, just pour out what accumulates on the bottom. Before use, rinse and sanitize (Starsan or Iodophor) as you normally would.

Did I forget something?

 

[IslandLizard]

Regarding the last thing I said, Iodophor/IOStar, it's wise to alternate sanitizers from time to time, most definitely after sustaining an infection or when suspect tell tales pop up. Iodine products are much more thorough in killing bugs, especially the ones that Starsan leaves behind.

I also leave buckets filled or partially filled with Starsan (like after pre-purging kegs). I'm also a proponent of mopping with sanitizers, using a (small) wash cloth. Spraying Starsan or Iodophor on slick vertical surfaces (e.g., bucket walls) is not enough, IMO. Immersion and foamy films clinging are.

 

[RaHarmakis]

So, update:
One day since posting this, I remembered that when I grabbed my previously washed fermenters, one of them had a small amount of MOLD in the bottom. It easily sprayed loose with a hose and I dumped it, then washed it with PBW and sanitized it. I thought it was good.
Do you recommend I only use glass carboys?
Or if I continue to use plastic fermentation buckets, always leave them open to air dry? (Seems like a basic theory now, after the fact)
And I DID pitch yeast in the other fermenter, and I’ll see what happens.
Thank you, everyone, for your shared experience.

Did you PBW and Sanitize both buckets before filling them?

What is your Brew Day Cleaning Process? (Before wort goes in)

If you cleaned & Sanitised the mouldy bucket properly, then my guess is that is the one that was fine after 3 days. If you did not clean properly then that could have been the issue.

If the other bucket did not get a good Clean and Sanitise cycle before wort was put into it, who knows what was on the surface of it.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I wouldn't suggest reusing bleach or deliberately scratching a bucket (even if correct that deep sharp scratches are more a threat). Just hard to tell.

That said +1 on changing up sanitizers periodically. Iodophor, star-san, isopropyl, lots of options.

 

[Davevjordon]

I think buckets are fine and are much easier to use than carboys but yeah I'd let your buckets air dry from now on. After a beer is done, you're cleaning it so just leave the lid off. Even if dust/dirt gets in the bucket by the time you brew again, it's going to get washed and sanitized so letting it dry out will help.

Thanks. That’s what I was thinking (after the fact!) “just let it air dry, when you go to use it again, rinse it out, and sanitize”.

 

[Davevjordon]

Sad to hear you dumped the one half. Accidental sours are 50/50, or rather 10/90, the odds being toward something you end up tossing. But once in awhile...

It still escapes me why you waited 3 days to pitch yeast. Especially knowing you has yeast on hand, and knowing your sanitation practices are far less than perfect.

I've kept boiled beer wort in the fridge (~38F) for 6 weeks in a plastic take-out container, without any infection problems. This was a test to prove something. Of course I didn't use the wort because of the real chance of botulism.

No need to throw out or repurpose the buckets that contained an infected batch, they can be cleaned and sanitized, nearly sterilized with the right methods. Even if they're a bit scratched.

In contrary to what was voiced here, I do think the lid's groove is a major infection area, difficult to clean and sanitize, even more so if there's a rubber seal in it that hasn't been removed.

Hope the second half fares better, and yields something drinkable, or even good.

Thanks. I’ll post an update next weekend when the one half of the 10 gallon batch is carefully sipped.

 

[Davevjordon]

Did you PBW and Sanitize both buckets before filling them?



What is your Brew Day Cleaning Process? (Before wort goes in)



If you cleaned & Sanitised the mouldy bucket properly, then my guess is that is the one that was fine after 3 days. If you did not clean properly then that could have been the issue.



If the other bucket did not get a good Clean and Sanitise cycle before wort was put into it, who knows what was on the surface of it.

I did PBW and sanitize both, prior to wort going in. Someone mentioned earlier in this post “any discolorations” in the plastic. There IS a spot, about 1” on the bottom of that bucket. (The bottom is where the mold was)

 

[Davevjordon]

Why do you wait so long to pitch the yeast?

Only waited to spend the days with my wife, and not be constantly playing around with my hobbies, after spending a full evening brewing. Never gonna happen again.

 

[Davevjordon]

View attachment 419566

The end of my second mug, of the half of this batch that survived. I don’t know what a sour should taste like, I switched up enough in this recipe between the grain and hop bills, and I already have in my mind that “something must be wrong”. But it’s totally drinkable, just “different”.
Like my usual IPA’s, it’s no-joke-STRONG!
And I’m waiting to see what kind of digestive problems I’ll have, while also wondering if the only difference is in the grain bill and hops.
But, it’s good, and I’m gettin’ hammered.
It smells sour, but I really don’t know.

 

[Davevjordon]

Disregard the anticipation of “digestive problems”.
I wish I measured this one. Because being an everyday-IPA drinker, I’ve gotta say: this beer has to be around 9%.
I’ve never had a beer in my life, or in my dozen-or-so brews, knock me for a loop the way this one does!
Cheers, brewers!