Did I kill my mash?

[odie]

New experiments gone bad? Trying my new digital controller to mash while I’m at work. I think the probe was in a bad spot and it over temped

BIAB. Mashed in last night at around 100 and it sat all night. This morning I stirred it good and inserted the controller probe into the mash. I thought I got it to the bottom of the mash. I have a basket holding the mash about an inch or two above the element.

Turned the kettle on and set controller to 150. Monitoring with a wifi camera. Have a dial thermometer below the basket and another digital thermometer at the top of the mash.

What happened is the controller probe was reading way low so the kettle kept going. The dial below hit 190 before the controller ever hit 150 set point. Strangely the very top probe was way high too, 30-40 hotter than the controller probe was reading.

I can only think the controller was in the middle of the mash and the upper probe was at the very outer edge of the basket and maybe the heat was going up the outside of the basket faster than thru the mash.

I called home and had the kettle turned off but probably too late

Anyway. I think I probably killed most of the enzymes? I’m curious if any surviving enzymes can finish the job if the temperature came down in time. Or if I add a small amount of fresh grain at lower mash temps for extra long will they stay alive to finish the whole mash?

 

[day_trippr]

I'm definitely gonna need to make some popcorn...

 

[odie]

For a comparison I repeating a recipe that was OG 1.053 but I don’t have the mash SG. This one is Mash SG of 1.040 but I don’t think it’s gonna boil down to 1.053.

The mash has kinda an odd smell too. Maybe from sitting overnight at ambient temperature?

 

[odie]

Recirc a bunch and ramped temps back up to 160-170 for mash out and now at 1.050 at start of boil. Still has that odd smell.

 

[day_trippr]

Lactobacillus effects, I'd expect, souring the mash. It would have been interesting to measure the pH after the overnight "rest" at such a benign temperature wrt things that like to grow.

So aside from the overnight idea, were you recirculating when you were trying to control your mash remotely? Hopefully not because that wouldn't speak too well of the recirculation.

Gotta say there's so much "out there" in the OP I had to check the date...

Cheers! ("Nope, it's not April 1st" )

 

[odie]

Well This all came from a brulosophy thing about mashing overnight and boiling in the morning to break up the brew day.

I didn’t quite follow their methods. I mashed in at night to “save time” in the morning going to work. I figured it would basically just sit until I fired up the kettle and left for work. The controller was supposed to hold it once reaching 150. A step mash so to speak.

In retrospect I should have added grain in the morning, stirred and kettle on, go to work.

Didn’t know about the lactobacillus thing.

No recirc during the heating. I should probably do that if I try again...without the overnight stuff

 

[day_trippr]

I have my doubts about the practicality of "remote mashing", but for sure I wouldn't leave the house without the recirculation pump running next time. I can't imagine direct-firing a still mash would ever work well...

Cheers!

 

[Iseneye]

Well This all came from a brulosophy thing about mashing overnight and boiling in the morning to break up the brew day.

Biting my tongue as much as possible - Brulosophy are pushing brewing boundaries so I wouldn't rely on advice from that website for good brewing practice.

 

[odie]

Yeah I know the feelings here about that site.
I didn’t think this out well. My basket has the sides blocked so the tiny pump will outrun the flow thru the grain bed after a while and then the heating element is particularly exposed.
Yep. Needed a better plan.
Will see what kinda monstrosity I will be drinking in a couple weeks

 

[day_trippr]

Biting my tongue as much as possible[...]

Totally. I actually had a pointed comment written earlier but didn't want to go down that rathole here...

Cheers!

 

[bracconiere]

I have my doubts about the practicality of "remote mashing",

LOL, don't forget the webcam!

 

[ba-brewer]

People do a short rest at around 100F to generate lactic acid for controlling mash ph, sitting over night at 100F sounds like what people do for making sour beers.

 

[odie]

People do a short rest at around 100F to generate lactic acid for controlling mash ph, sitting over night at 100F sounds like what people do for making sour beers.

Now I’m gonna hurl ...I hate sour beers I should have waited until morning to mash in. Actually should have set controller to heat to 160 by early morning. Mash in at morning, heat off, go to work.

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, perhaps aside from the man and the machine behind @Die_Beerery I would bin this whole "remote brewing" notion to the "Don't Do That" thread...

Cheers!

 

[Miraculix]

I mashed a wheat beer over night once. Created a decent kettle sour on accident. Wasn't THAT sour, but still sour.

 

[mongoose33]

Is this a recirculating mash or just a BIAB with the basket suspended over the element? Sure doesn't look like there's anything being recirculated....

...and if not, have you ever tried this without the controller? There's no way you can reliably heat up a mash using an element unless you're almost constantly stirring. The mash insulates itself such that heat will only VERY slowly propagate through the mash, and the mash closest to the element will heat up a LOT.

 

[dwhite60]

Late to the game, but, if it is sour it would probably make a decent stout or porter.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[odie]

The OG came in at 1.060 but I'm significantly under fermenter volume compared to the same recipe last time. Figuring how to add sterilized water to reach target volume and calculate estimated OG since I already pitched yeast.

No recirculation since my tiny pump can outrun the grain bed. Usually I'm cycling the pump on and off during the mash but since it was an attempt to mash while off at work I had to skip that. I really should experiment with partially closing the valve to the pump.

To be honest, the Brulosophy experiment was mashed in normally, then heat off and left to sit and mash overnight (15 hours) without any recirc or stirring. Boil commencing the next morning. It bumped the OG up slightly and FG down slightly compared to the control sample/batch.

So I didn't really follow this experiment like I intended but got caught up with playing with my new digital controller. But I did learn about "lactobacillus" by letting my grain sit overnight at luke warm temps before beginning the actually mash process. And I learned how much insulating power the mash has.

 

[odie]

an interesting side note...the bag was very reluctant to drain. lots of squeezing involved. unlike any other BIAB beers I have done...with the exception of a pumpkin ale with 6# on canned pumpkin in the bag which clogged the bag similarly...but not to the extreme that it clogged this time. I don't think I over crushed either.

Anyway, it's in the ferm so I will see what results.

 

[day_trippr]

Not surprising. Your mash was verging on proteolytic rest temperature for some portion of the night...

Cheers!

 

[odie]

Not surprising. Your mash was verging on proteolytic rest temperature for some portion of the night...

Cheers!

What’s that? Always something new to learn on this site [emoji106]

 

[GilSwillBasementBrews]

I really should experiment with partially closing the valve to the pump.

.

To slow your pump you want to close a valve on the output not the input to the pump. By closing the input you could potentially run your pump dry and burn it up. By throttling the output you will ensure that there is always liquid in the pump as to reduce chance of burning it up.

 

[odie]

To slow your pump you want to close a valve on the output not the input to the pump. By closing the input you could potentially run your pump dry and burn it up. By throttling the output you will ensure that there is always liquid in the pump as to reduce chance of burning it up.

Good point. It’s a centrifugal pump. Not sure that makes much difference

 

[Kenmoron]

I've been doing some overnight mashing lately and have had some great results. The key is making sure you can maintain high temps (like >140F), otherwise you are welcoming infection. Since I do 3 gal BIAB batches in a 5 gal kettle I am able to mash in at night, then put my kettle in a prewarmed oven. I also turn the oven light on which emits a bit of heat. I've had 10 hour mashes with a loss of only about 4-5 degrees. If you are able to insulate/warm your mash enough to keep temps >140 go ahead with the long mash!

 

[odie]

My kettle has 3 wraps of reflectix on it. Holds temps well. Next try i will mash in at dawn and let it ride all day. “We mash at dawn”. Sounds like a movie line.

 

[odie]

 

[Vale71]

What’s that? Always something new to learn on this site [emoji106]

Actually, it's beta-glucans that cause wort viscosity to skyrocket. You were for a very long time in a range of temperatures where additional beta-glucans are released.

 

[odie]

Well that viscocity was a bear to work with. had to squeeze bag like crazy to get all my wort out. Then trying to screen the bottom kettle trub to recover the last 1/2gal or so of wort for the fermenter was impossible. I just dumped the whole load into the ferm and will let it settle out...not even gonna try to harvest this yeast.

 

[Vale71]

The good news is the beer will ferment anyway but it still might feel a bit "chewy" or oily even when fully fermented.

 

[odie]

please explain chewy oily...how so and why...and how might this be addressed with this batch? gelatin maybe?

 

[Vale71]

Because of the beta-glucans. They're unfermentable so your beer is stuck with them. The only way to render them harmless would be to add enzymes (beta-glucanase) to the beer.

 

[odie]

After a few days cold crashing it never cleared up. Kegged it and had to leave 1/2-3/4 gallons in the fermenter. Used a full pack of gelatin. Let it carb in the kegerator for a week and see what comes out the tap

 

[odie]

Still very cloudy. Needs more time? Or beyond help?

 

[ba-brewer]

Have you tasted it yet? What was the intended style?

 

[odie]

Very grapefruity. But I did dry hop the keg so not unexpected. But the clarity is zero. Beyond hazy ipa I think. You can feel the silt when drinking. Like drinking muddy water

 

[ba-brewer]

Nothing like a beer you can sink your teeth into.

Sounds like it did not turn sour or funky so maybe time will get it to drop.

 

[grampamark]

Very grapefruity. But I did dry hop the keg so not unexpected. But the clarity is zero. Beyond hazy ipa I think. You can feel the silt when drinking. Like drinking muddy water

Well, there’s your problem.

You probably have hop particles at the bottom of the keg (unless you used a bag, or something to contain the big pieces). You may have to pull 3 or 4 pints, maybe more, to pull the sludge from around the liquid dip tube. And, you may have to unclog the tube and/or the poppet.

 

[day_trippr]

If you read this thread from the beginning it's clear the hops have little to do with the outcome...

Cheers!

 

[grampamark]

If you read this thread from the beginning it's clear the hops have little to do with the outcome...

Cheers!

It’s clear there’s nothing clear about this batch.

But, if he did throw some hop pellets straight into the keg, there might be something closer to clear beer above the sludge.

 

[odie]

about an ounce of unmarked, random, unknown, leftover hops. Bagged with a stocking...those things in the women's apparel section...

the last time I dry hopped this same recipe with the same method, there was no haze or cloudiness...nor serious "grapefruit" flavor. But the hoppyness did dissipate as the beer was drunk. I assume hop bag sank to the bottom next to the pick up tube and as the beers were being tapped the hops diminished in their potency.

The cloudiness is not from the hops. The beer never dropped clear in the fermenter, not in the cold crash...and I guess not from gelatin either.

Some how related to the grain soaking overnight in the kettle before starting heating mash process in the morning while leaving for work...A failed experiment in absentee mashing???