Denny Conn's Bourbon Vanilla Imperial Porter

[bassman22]

I didnt read through all 28 pages...but a good bit of them.

Does anyone have a extract+specialty grain recipe for this beer. I have not stepped it up to partial mash/all grain yet due to equipment/money concerns.

The conversion will be much appreciated.

EDIT: Read some of Denny's posts elsewhere...looks like there is no extract version. I guess its time to learn to partial mash.

 

[DeToX]

Here' ya go. It was found on page 7 of this thread. This is from Denny himself.

Sure...here ya go! You still need to be able to partial mash a significant amount of grain.

Bourbon Vanilla Imperial Porter partial mash

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 5.00 Wort Size (Gal): 5.00
Total Grain (Lbs): 13.25
Anticipated OG: 1.087 Plato: 20.83
Anticipated SRM: 46.1
Anticipated IBU: 31.6
Brewhouse Efficiency: 73 %
Wort Boil Time: 70 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 1.50 Gallons Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 6.75 Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.064 SG 15.72 Plato


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
37.7 5.00 lbs. Light Dry Malt Extract 1.046 7
18.9 2.50 lbs. Munich Malt (Durst) Germany 1.037 10
11.3 1.50 lbs. Brown Malt Great Britain 1.032 70
9.4 1.25 lbs. Chocolate Malt America 1.029 350
7.5 1.00 lbs. Crystal 120L America 1.033 120
7.5 1.00 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row) America 1.036 2
3.8 0.50 lbs. Cane Sugar 1.047 0
3.8 0.50 lbs. Crystal 40L America 1.034 40

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.65 oz. Magnum-Domestic Whole 15.00 29.0 60 min.
0.40 oz. Goldings - E.K. Whole 6.00 2.6 10 min.


Extras

Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.50 Unit(s)Whirlfloc Fining 5 Min.(boil)


Yeast
-----

WY1450, WY1056, or DCL Yeast US-56 Fermentis American Ale


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Name:

Total Grain Lbs: 7.75
Total Water Qts: 12.00 - Before Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal: 3.00 - Before Additional Infusions

Tun Thermal Mass: 0.13
Grain Temp: 65.00 F


Step Rest Start Stop Heat Infuse Infuse Infuse
Step Name Time Time Temp Temp Type Temp Amount Ratio
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sacc 0 60 155 155 Infuse 170 12.00 1.55


Total Water Qts: 12.00 - After Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal: 3.00 - After Additional Infusions
Total Mash Volume Gal: 3.62 - After Additional Infusions

All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.
All infusion amounts are in Quarts.
All infusion ratios are Quarts/Lbs.

When fermentation is complete, split 2 vanilla beans lengthwise. Scrape all the seeds and "gunk" from them and add it to the fermenter. Chop the beans into 2-3 in. long pieces and add them, too. Leave in secondary 10-14 days, then taste. You want the vanilla to be a bit on the strong side since it will fade. If the vanilla flavor is adequate, rack to bottling bucket or keg and add approximately 375 ml. of Jim Beam Black bourbon. You don't need to use an expensive bourbon, and you don't want to add a lot. The beer shouldn't scream "BOURBON!" at you. You should have an integrated flavor of the chocolatey porter, vanilla, and bourbon. This beer does not benefit from extended aging. I prefer it within a few months of brewing. The FG should be in the mid-high 20s, so don't worry about trying to get it lower.

 

[cantrell00]

Is a 1L starter from a stir plate enough yeast cells for this recipe?

Using Wyeast 1056. They were out of 1050.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Denny]

Is a 1L starter from a stir plate enough yeast cells for this recipe?

Using Wyeast 1056. They were out of 1050.

Thanks in advance!

Not in my book. I use a 3 qt. starter.

 

[solavirtus]

Depends on how many vials/packs you're talking. Probably needs more than a qt.

 

[cantrell00]

Depends on how many vials/packs you're talking. Probably needs more than a qt.

1 Wyeast 1056 slap pack.. LBS out of 1050.

Nevermind.. Just did some more research. If not using the 1050, it seems I'd been better off not even using the liquid 1056.

Way better off with Safale US05 X 2 with no starter.

400-450 billion is more than enough to cover 5.5 gallon @ 1.080, right?

 

[cantrell00]

Brewed last night... AG.

6 gallon in tun @ 170 for an hour, settled @ 155 degrees

Pulled 3.75-4.0 gallons @ 1.083 - @ 150 degrees

Sparged with 4 gallons @ 170.

Pulled off another 4.25 @ 1.031 (I think)

Boiled down to 5.5 gallons @ 1.083

Was burping like crazy 7 hours later. 1L stir plate starter of Wyeast 1058 & a packet of Safale US05.

 

[zmagrini]

Brewed this yesterday. Hit an OG of 1.083 which I was quite happy with. I have three vanilla beans from beanilla which I split, scraped, and are now soaking in just 6oz makers mark (im looking for a very subtle bourbon taste).

Im starting to get a little worried that I should have used two beans instead of three. The first bean I used was a little smaller than the others so thats why I decided to use an extra.

Im also adding coffee to this as well. Will the bitterness in the coffee mask the vanilla if I added too much? Id hate to ruin the beer in the final stages.

 

[jroot]

Just got done brewing my 7th batch of this great recipe and am trying vanilla extract this time. I love a vanilla flavor and two beans just wasn't enough as it fades quickly I found. About a quarter tsp per 12 oz is enough of a subtle taste for me. I usually add 250 ml per 5 gallons of Makers Mark and that's enough bourbon too. As for the coffee, it depends how big you want the coffee flavor. There is enough of the other mix of adjuncts so go conservative.

 

[Denny]

Brewed this yesterday. Hit an OG of 1.083 which I was quite happy with. I have three vanilla beans from beanilla which I split, scraped, and are now soaking in just 6oz makers mark (im looking for a very subtle bourbon taste).

Im starting to get a little worried that I should have used two beans instead of three. The first bean I used was a little smaller than the others so thats why I decided to use an extra.

Im also adding coffee to this as well. Will the bitterness in the coffee mask the vanilla if I added too much? Id hate to ruin the beer in the final stages.

Yes, it will. Also ask yourself if you really want all those flavors in there at once.

 

[zmagrini]

Yes, it will. Also ask yourself if you really want all those flavors in there at once.

Thats a good point Denny. I actually considered this while brewing the other day.

The plan is to add only 4oz of cold brew coffee to just give it a little more of a coffee aroma and flavor. From what I can tell, this beer already has a chocolate/coffee taste but Im a huge coffee fan, so I have to

 

[Denny]

What I'd recommend is that you split the batch and add coffee only to one half and the bourbon and vanilla to the other half. I think the lfavor will be less muddled and if you really want all the flavors at once you can blend in your glass.

 

[bolus14]

Any thoughts on using Rum instead of bourbon. I don't mind bourbon, but seems like most are trying to mainly get some vanilla from the bourbon. Captain Private Stock gives a smooth vanilla taste that I've been thinking would be less "harsh" than most bourbon. I have Maker's Mark if others think that would still serve better though.

Second question. I have an American Wheat, OG of 1.040, fermenting now with WY1450 should I just put right onto the slurry or use Mr. Malty and try to be more "specific" about how much to pitch? I got more material in the fermenter from the kettle than I would've liked and I would like to collect some of the slurry for future uses. Since this is a much higher gravity beer I don't want to collect the yeast after this one.

 

[Denny]

Any thoughts on using Rum instead of bourbon. I don't mind bourbon, but seems like most are trying to mainly get some vanilla from the bourbon. Captain Private Stock gives a smooth vanilla taste that I've been thinking would be less "harsh" than most bourbon. I have Maker's Mark if others think that would still serve better though.

Second question. I have an American Wheat, OG of 1.040, fermenting now with WY1450 should I just put right onto the slurry or use Mr. Malty and try to be more "specific" about how much to pitch? I got more material in the fermenter from the kettle than I would've liked and I would like to collect some of the slurry for future uses. Since this is a much higher gravity beer I don't want to collect the yeast after this one.

The vanilla comes from the vanilla, not the bourbon. If you use the correct amount of bourbon, there is no harshness. Hell, I don't even like bourbon, but it integrates and becomes a different flavor. Use rum if you like. Maybe split the batch and try both.

As a rough guess, I'd use half the slurry from the wheat for the BVIP.

 

[bolus14]

Split might be a good way to go, from the reviews I don't think it'll turn out bad either way...just different. Thanks for the input on the yeast, sounds good to me.

I just read back a few pages and noticed you said you don't prefer this when aged too long. I may hold off until mid to late June as I'm looking for more of a fall/winter beer from this.

 

[Denny]

Split might be a good way to go, from the reviews I don't think it'll turn out bad either way...just different. Thanks for the input on the yeast, sounds good to me.

I just read back a few pages and noticed you said you don't prefer this when aged too long. I may hold off until mid to late June as I'm looking for more of a fall/winter beer from this.

I've found that after 6 weeks or so the flavors really start fading, especially the vanilla. If you're looking for a fall/winter beer, you might want to wait til Aug./Sept.

 

[maurtis]

This weekend I am venturing from wine making into my first batch of beer and I chose this delicious looking recipe as my first.

Question, I see 11 lbs or 2-row malt listed here and 13 lbs at brew365. They mention that their recipe is for a 6 gallon batch, is that the difference? And the recipe here is for 5.5?

I have a neighbor who brews often so he is helping me with milling the grain, mashing, sparging, etc since that is all foreign to me.

I also saw the following quoted on a couple different sites: "This is a big grain bill and requires you to sparge more than normal. You will collect much more wort and will also have to boil for longer (90-120 mins). If you don't, then your efficiency and OG will be low."

Oddly enough, this was the reason why I started with wine in the first place, less confusion without the cooking, LOL. But my heart lies with beer, so I am excited about making the transition!

 

[Denny]

This weekend I am venturing from wine making into my first batch of beer and I chose this delicious looking recipe as my first.

Question, I see 11 lbs or 2-row malt listed here and 13 lbs at brew365. They mention that their recipe is for a 6 gallon batch, is that the difference? And the recipe here is for 5.5?

I have a neighbor who brews often so he is helping me with milling the grain, mashing, sparging, etc since that is all foreign to me.

I also saw the following quoted on a couple different sites: "This is a big grain bill and requires you to sparge more than normal. You will collect much more wort and will also have to boil for longer (90-120 mins). If you don't, then your efficiency and OG will be low."

Oddly enough, this was the reason why I started with wine in the first place, less confusion without the cooking, LOL. But my heart lies with beer, so I am excited about making the transition!

For the most accurate versions of any of my recipes always look at the AHA recipe wiki. This recipe is at
http://wiki.homebrewersassociation.org/BourbonVanillaImperialPorter . How much you sparge will depend on your own equipment setup. In my case, I just brew it as I would any other batch.

 

[maurtis]

Fantastic, thanks Denny! I am quite excited about brewing this up

 

[bolus14]

KuI brewed a "large" stout this weekend, should end up around 8% - 8.5% although the plan was to end around 10% but I missed my OG. Part of brewing that beer was to figure out something with my BIAB and for the most part I figured out what I needed, just forgot to extend my boil time which is why my OG was off, preboil was spot on.

I want one more "big beer" for the holidays and through the winter. Taking Denny's advise into consideration and enjoying this at around the 2 months period means I should brew around the last weekend of Sept or first of Oct for it to be in it's prime for Thanksgiving.

The question I have is that my wife always complains that the porters and stouts that I've made havent had a good "creamy/smooth" mouthfeel, should I make any changes for this to have a good smooth feel to it. She always relates things to how Southern Tier's Creme Brulee is, if that gives you an idea of what I'm looking for. In the end I really think I haven't made anything with a high enough FG for it to be that smooth, all of mine have finished in the mid teens.

 

[Denny]

I haven't had the beer, so I can't compare. But the BVIP finishes around 1.026-28, so there are plenty of dextrins for mouthfeel. In addition, using WY1450 really produces a smooth, silky mouthfeel.

 

[bolus14]

Ston'e smoked porter with vanilla beans is another that I think compares mouthfeel wise, really any bigger stout/porter usually over 8% she has liked. She usually likes the taste but doesn't like it to feel carbonated and I think the lower FG is letting the carbonation show more, I tend not to go over 2.1/2.2 volumes of CO2 with stouts and porters and go close to 1.7/1.8 for English styles. The only thing I've gone higher than 2.2 on are the Belgians that I've done so I don't think it's the CO2 level.

I'll be using WY1450, I used it in a Vanilla Porter that finished at 6.3% with an FG of 1.012. That comes across smooth with slight carbonation to me, but doesn't have that "think" feel which I'm sure is due to the FG so I think these bigger brews with add wha tIm looking for.

 

[bolus14]

Hopefully my final few questions as I'm ironing things out before I get things bought for this.

1. Is there a reason for the late hop addition? To me it seems like .4 oz of EKG at 10 wouldn't contribute much in something this big. I'm asking mainly to learn. I would think that with a big grain bill like this and with the chocolate and caramel malts the hop flavor would just get hidden.

2. Using WY1450 on 4 beers I've gotten 80% - 82% attenuation. After putting the recipe into BrewMate and figuring on 80% attenuation I have estimated OG of 1.089 and estimated FG of 1.018. Should I expect lower attenuation and just let it fly, underpitch, or something else to ensure this doesn't dry out too much?

 

[Denny]

Hopefully my final few questions as I'm ironing things out before I get things bought for this.

1. Is there a reason for the late hop addition? To me it seems like .4 oz of EKG at 10 wouldn't contribute much in something this big. I'm asking mainly to learn. I would think that with a big grain bill like this and with the chocolate and caramel malts the hop flavor would just get hidden.

2. Using WY1450 on 4 beers I've gotten 80% - 82% attenuation. After putting the recipe into BrewMate and figuring on 80% attenuation I have estimated OG of 1.089 and estimated FG of 1.018. Should I expect lower attenuation and just let it fly, underpitch, or something else to ensure this doesn't dry out too much?

1. Well, I've never done it without it, so I really can't say.

2. Attenuation is dependent on wort composition, not the attenuation rating of the yeast. When software predicts FG, it doesn't take the recipe into account, just the yeast. I recommend brewing it as is. You don't know how to adjust on the future if you don't know what it's like. FWIW, it's never finished anywhere neaar 1.018 for me.

 

[bolus14]

Thanks Denny!

I agree with having to make it once to know where to begin adjustments. I'll check with a couple of others homebrew friends to see if they have any EKG laying around, if they do I'll use them, otherwise I'm thinking of skipping them. Main reason is because this will likely be the last thing I make until December or January and would just be throwing out .6oz of EKG's.

Otherwise, I've got Maker's Mark sitting in the cupboard, 5 vanilla beans in a glass jar (1 or 2 for a Pumpkin Saison, 1 or 2 for an Imperial Stout, and 1 or 2 for this)

 

[maurtis]

I haven't had the beer, so I can't compare. But the BVIP finishes around 1.026-28, so there are plenty of dextrins for mouthfeel. In addition, using WY1450 really produces a smooth, silky mouthfeel.

I am an idiot... ours has been at 1.028 for about a week now and instead of reading this post more closely I was going by the Beersmith profile my friend came up with (he was helping me with this brew since it was my first). His report said we should be getting down to 1.017 so yesterday I pitched another 1450 smack pack and added 2 tsp of Fermax.

So... keeping an eye on the hydrometer over the next week, can I go ahead and bottle once the SG looks stable again (assuming it moves at all) or should I wait a certain amount of time for the yeast to flocculate? I left everything in the primary and planned on going straight to a bottling bucket, but should I go ahead and rack into a secondary now?

The good news is that I learned a lot from my many mistakes with this brew so hopefully my next AG brew will go more smoothly. I bought enough grain for two batches, so hope to start the second batch in a week or so.

 

[Denny]

Yeah, bottle when stable but wait for the yeast to drop. This is actually one of the few beers I use a secondary for. I rack to secondary before adding the vanilla beans.

And please permit me my usual rant...NEVER trust a piece of software that attempts to predict FG. They simply base it on the attenuation rating of the yeast and attenuation is FAR more dependent on wort fermentability than yeast attenuation rating. That's simply for comparing one yeast to another using the same wort. No software out there can take wort composition into account when predicting FG. As great as Beersmith is, it's not instructions on how to brew...you get to decide that! The software is just a tool, like a hammer is a tool. Don't let it do your thinking for you!

 

[maurtis]

Yup, lesson learned. Thanks for the rant, I really appreciate it! So many more moving parts to brewing beer than making wine. Good thing I love beer

I will rack into a glass carboy so I can keep an eye on the hydrometer (I like to leave them floating in the carboy so I can check the SG without disturbing anything) and watch for flocculation.

 

[funnycreature]

1. Well, I've never done it without it, so I really can't say.

2. Attenuation is dependent on wort composition, not the attenuation rating of the yeast. When software predicts FG, it doesn't take the recipe into account, just the yeast. I recommend brewing it as is. You don't know how to adjust on the future if you don't know what it's like. FWIW, it's never finished anywhere neaar 1.018 for me.

Denny, your second item is not quite true for BeerSmith. When I change the recipe e.g. the mash temperature, the expected FG changes as well. I noticed this just recently when I had a double decoction mash profile and my predicted FG was extremely weird. Changing it to the mash profile with a single step infusion showed me a more realistic FG.

 

[rbyount]

Outstanding recipe and thread! Was looking for a good vanilla porter and this certainly fits the bill and will be brewed next.

Regarding vanilla. I've been purchasing extract quality beans on ebay for the past several years (prices doubled last year ) and extracting my own vanilla. Incredible difference in baking and I look forward to using the extract rather than the bean scrapings. You can make your own extract by taking 1 ounce beans (prepped as described - slit the beans and scoop out the seeds with pod chopped up) and adding 8 oz of vodka (cheap is fine). Shake daily for a month, then occasionally for another 5 months, then filter out the pods (leave the seeds). You can use after a month but the alcohol will continue the extract. Started doing this when I couldn't find good (and reasonably priced) pure vanilla. Last extract I did was with a pound of madagascar beans, 6 ounces beans/6 cups vodka in re-purposed 1.5 liter wine bottles. If interested I can share a very boring time/lapse youtube video showing the process.

 

[Denny]

Denny, your second item is not quite true for BeerSmith. When I change the recipe e.g. the mash temperature, the expected FG changes as well. I noticed this just recently when I had a double decoction mash profile and my predicted FG was extremely weird. Changing it to the mash profile with a single step infusion showed me a more realistic FG.

Well, I'm glad to hear that. What happens when you take the same recipe, but put 5 lb. of crystal in one version and 5 lb. of sugar in another?

 

[funnycreature]

Well, I'm glad to hear that. What happens when you take the same recipe, but put 5 lb. of crystal in one version and 5 lb. of sugar in another?

Estimated FG (in one of my iterations on your phenomenal recipe) decreases from 1.024 to 1.010 when substituting [hypothetical] 5 pounds of C120 with 5 pounds of light brown sugar.

 

[Denny]

Estimated FG (in one of my iterations on your phenomenal recipe) decreases from 1.024 to 1.010 when substituting [hypothetical] 5 pounds of C120 with 5 pounds of light brown sugar.

Wow, that's great. I stand corrected. I wonder if user error is why it sometimes gives the wrong estimate? Maybe I'll try to get ahold of Brad and see what it's doing and how it does it.

 

[funnycreature]

Wow, that's great. I stand corrected. I wonder if user error is why it sometimes gives the wrong estimate? Maybe I'll try to get ahold of Brad and see what it's doing and how it does it.

That would be great! Maybe complicated mash profiles cause confusion.

By the way - the mash temperature also affects the FG. Using a German Lager recipe, the FG changes from 1.011 to 1.017 when the mash temp is increased from 148 to 158. Brad must have done some research!

 

[Denny]

That would be great! Maybe complicated mash profiles cause confusion.

By the way - the mash temperature also affects the FG. Using a German Lager recipe, the FG changes from 1.011 to 1.017 when the mash temp is increased from 148 to 158. Brad must have done some research!

I think that comes from some observations Fred Bonjour has made. But I have to question it. According to an experiment done by Greg Doss of Wyeast, 153F yields maximum fermentability. He presented his research at the 2012 NHC in Seattle.

 

[funnycreature]

I think that comes from some observations Fred Bonjour has made. But I have to question it. According to an experiment done by Greg Doss of Wyeast, 153F yields maximum fermentability. He presented his research at the 2012 NHC in Seattle.

Sorry to derail this thread further... Denny, if you talk to Brad maybe you can guide him and maybe an update can yield more accurate predictions? Thanks!

 

[bolus14]

Made this yesterday. I've been trying to "re-tune" my BIAB setup so I had to guess at what my efficiency would be. Ended up at 65% so I had to boil a little longer, I did a 90 min boil and hit 1.082 so not far off. Also had etween 4.5 and 4.75 gal into the fermenter because of the extra boiling.

Now I'll let it go for a couple weeks then add the vanilla beans, wait for a couple more weeks and then bottle with some Maker's Mark.

 

[Denny]

Made this yesterday. I've been trying to "re-tune" my BIAB setup so I had to guess at what my efficiency would be. Ended up at 65% so I had to boil a little longer, I did a 90 min boil and hit 1.082 so not far off. Also had etween 4.5 and 4.75 gal into the fermenter because of the extra boiling.

Now I'll let it go for a couple weeks then add the vanilla beans, wait for a couple more weeks and then bottle with some Maker's Mark.

Just so you know, people have been reporting better results with Jim Beam Black than with Maker's Mark. Apparently the flavor profile of MM just sticks out rather than blending with the beer.

 

[bolus14]

Hmmm. Might have to make a few samples and try a couple diferent kinds of Bourbon then. I have nearly a whole bottle of MM from my father in law since he didn't like it, he prefers some other more expensive brand(I can't remember the name of that one), I have a bottle of Jack, I wonder how that would turn out, and I have a bottle of JB Devil's Cut. I can pick up some JB black if that's what others have found to be the best for this, I would prefer to spend the money and have a great beer rather than just using what I have and have it turn out muddled or the bourbon to overpower it. I like bourbon but not sure I want it to dominate, as that's not the intent for this beer.

 

[Denny]

Hmmm. Might have to make a few samples and try a couple diferent kinds of Bourbon then. I have nearly a whole bottle of MM from my father in law since he didn't like it, he prefers some other more expensive brand(I can't remember the name of that one), I have a bottle of Jack, I wonder how that would turn out, and I have a bottle of JB Devil's Cut. I can pick up some JB black if that's what others have found to be the best for this, I would prefer to spend the money and have a great beer rather than just using what I have and have it turn out muddled or the bourbon to overpower it. I like bourbon but not sure I want it to dominate, as that's not the intent for this beer.

Not being a bourbon drinker, I thought I'd pass on what people who do appreciate it say. I chose JBB becasue it was mid price range. I lucked out in that it integrates well in the beer without screaming "BOURBON!" at you.