DELIBERATE corn flavor in beer

[Yellow_Boots]

Alrighty, I have looked all over HBT and have been unsuccessful in finding a thread regarding corn flavor devoted to anything other than "eww corn dms" or "flaked maize just adds lightness." I get it. Those two thoughts are valid. But I am looking to make a new beer soon that emphasizes the warm, golden flavors of corn. Given my research, I cannot pin down how to employ corn to deliver the flavor I am seeking. Generally it is reduced to purely an adjunct without much of a flavor addition--just alcohol and body.

I am envisioning a rich corn sout (if only so I can get away with calling it "Shucking Good Ale"!) whose flavors of dark roastiness compliment the smooth addition of a crispy and (hopefully) baked/browned corn element. I want a roasted/fried/maillard-based flavor, not creamed corn/dms. What should I do? My general theory rests with taking frozen sweet corn and roasting it in the oven until it begins to brown, then spreading it out on a sheet and letting it dry in the open air--then into the mash with the rest to account for corn's poor diastatic power.

Am I off my rocker?

 

[billl]

Never tried it personally, but roasting anything creates unique sugars that the yeast don't consume. You'll get some sort of flavor out of it, but I don't know how much 'corn" you'll get.

You might also consider a cereal mash on some whole corn. It works well on other raw grains (wheat etc) to liberate the starches while preserving the grains flavor. It's worth a try with corn.

Are you off your rocker? probably. But that comes with the territory. You might want to try this on a 1 gallon batch before scaling up.

 

[Ash_Mathew]

Buy some popping corn. Malt it, roast it. That's what I am doing at the moment. I am going to be doing a whole corn beer in a few weeks. Here are some pictures of my experimenting with malting corn. I malt all my own grains as I brew gluten free with me being Coeliac, so if you chose to try it then feel free to ask me for any advice etc.

 

[acidrain23]

The Koreans make a tea out of roasted corn called oksusu cha. I've seen it in some of the asian markets I frequent and have been curious about using it in a beer. Might be hard to find, but if you can source it, could be interesting to experiment with!

 

[Yellow_Boots]

Thanks for the quick feedback, guys. Ash Mathew, I am familiar with malting grains from scratch but have never tried it with corn. What is your method?

 

[Ash_Mathew]

Hey, same as normal grains really. Though I have soaked my corn over night, rather than six plus hours as normal. Then drain them. Keep them moist but not soaking. After a few days they should be full sprouted. Then I roasted them like I was making crystal malt. Soaked for several hours, then spread out on a baking sheet about an inch or so thick. Smaller batches you may want to pile together in the middle, as it is about trapping in the moisture whilst roasting and effectively stewing them in the oven.

 

[Osedax]

Corn is going to add a nice creaminess to your beer. A lot of cream ales use an upwards of 2# per 5 gallon. I'm not sure that corn has the needed enzymes to convert itself. Listen to ash_mathew. He has put together some good stuff on the gluten free forum.

Ash_mathew and myself can't use it but, try some 6 row for diastic power.

I have had a few gluten free beers were I could definitely taste corn. Its actually a pretty good compliment.

Look up chica. Its an ancient brew made entirely of corn.

 

[Ash_Mathew]

Thanks for the compliments, dude.


Yeah, that's what I am going to be aiming for, kind of a play on chicha. But a cleaner look and European hops in it. Tried it with just Cascade. It did not taste good. Not even a little.

Sorry for the hijack. Haha But yeah, check out malting and roasting it. Should get some toasty/roasty flavours with some creaminess to it, too.

Ash

 

[Nashbrewer]

What kind of flavor does the 100% corn malt give to the beer after the roasting? I've been thinking about doing something similar just for laughs.

 

[Ash_Mathew]

Not used it yet. Haha Just malting my second batch now for an all corn beer. Through the bag though, the first batch smells like roasted peanuts. It smells amazing. Haha I think I am going to use it over the weekend, possibly Friday with it being the long weekend. So I will let you know what it's like. If my second corn batch is ready before the weekend, and if I have enough space, I will probably do the all corn. Maybe with a little honey. I bet without hops, it would taste like peanut brittle.

Ash

 

[Herky21]

If you look at cream ales, the grain flavor reminiscent of corn is commonly associated with 6-row. You can always look up the recipe on here for popcorn beer, or also for creamed corn beer, which might actually be on tastybrew if I remember correctly.

 

[TNGabe]

I want to say I remember reading about someone using fresh ear corn for a beer, but I don't remember where.

 

[Ash_Mathew]

I know that Revy uses all sorts of types of corn. From Popcorn to tortilla crisps. Maybe it was one of Revy's posts?

 

[Yellow_Boots]

Alrighty, here is my proposed recipe--critique away!

OG: 1.067
FG: 1.012
IBU: 43

3# 6-Row Brewers Malt
2# 2-Row Brewers Malt
3.5# Corn (malted/roasted per Ash_Mathew)
0.5# Corn, flaked
1# Chocolate Malt
0.5# Roasted Barley
0.25# Caramel 30L
0.25# Caramel 40L
0.25# Caramel 60L
1# Lactose (10 min)

1oz Target (15 min)
1oz Willamette (15 min)
0.75oz Target (10 min)
0.75oz Willamette (10 min)
0.5oz Target (5 min)
0.5oz Willamette (5 min)
0.5oz Willamette (0 min)

WLP550

 

[Osedax]

Wlp550 is abbey ale right? Your recipe seems very english. You might want to use a cleaner english yeast so that you don't overshadow the corn taste.

 

[barmyarmy]

Try using fresh sweet corn in the secondary like a fruit, or use masa powder (ground corn). That should give you a corny flavor.

 

[Ash_Mathew]

I agree. I would say add English yeast or some European hops. Or, you could just throw in the Abbey and see how it all works out. Not sure on the grain, as said before, I can't use Barley. So I trust your judgement...

 

[Jebu1788]

Alrighty, here is my proposed recipe--critique away!

OG: 1.067
FG: 1.012
IBU: 43

3# 6-Row Brewers Malt
2# 2-Row Brewers Malt
3.5# Corn (malted/roasted per Ash_Mathew)
0.5# Corn, flaked
1# Chocolate Malt
0.5# Roasted Barley
0.25# Caramel 30L
0.25# Caramel 40L
0.25# Caramel 60L
1# Lactose (10 min)

1oz Target (15 min)
1oz Willamette (15 min)
0.75oz Target (10 min)
0.75oz Willamette (10 min)
0.5oz Target (5 min)
0.5oz Willamette (5 min)
0.5oz Willamette (0 min)

WLP550

"Shucking Good Ale" isn't a bad name, but if you put lactose in there how are you going to pass up naming it "Creamed Corn Stout"?

Then maybe throw one of these in:

 

[Herky21]

I think your numerous late hop additions will likely overwhelm the corn flavor that your after. I'd have one flavor addition around -10 min.

 

[Yellow_Boots]

Okay--good feedback all, thanks. I was on the fence on the yeast. Several times I have used Belgian strains for stouts and porters to great effect, and I like the fruitiness that coincides with the darker flavors present from grains et al... but the other choice I had was WLP023 (Burton), which is my favorite English strain (and still fruity). Looks like that's the winner in the end. As for the hops, I agree. Lately I have done away with all early hop additions to squeeze as much flavor as possible from my hops and I find the bitterness from larger late additions to be far smoother than their intial-boil counterparts. That said, I'll scale back in time just a touch to improve bitterness (and add Fuggle, for dynamite earthiness). I am keeping the lactose given that virtually all of my friends and family choose milk stouts over all other varieties. Creaminess --with-- corn is one of my objectives here, not creaminess --of-- corn.

Here goes:

"Shucking Good Ale"

OG: 1.067
FG: 1.019
IBU: 39

3# 6-Row Brewers Malt
2# 2-Row Brewers Malt
3.5# Corn (malted/roasted per Ash_Mathew)
0.5# Corn, flaked
1# Chocolate Malt
0.5# Roasted Barley
0.25# Caramel 30L
0.25# Caramel 40L
0.25# Caramel 60L
1# Lactose (10 min)

1oz Target (20 min)
1oz Willamette (20 min)
1oz Fuggle (20 min)

WLP023

 

[Herky21]

I know that Revy uses all sorts of types of corn. From Popcorn to tortilla crisps. Maybe it was one of Revy's posts?

I think the popcorn one was.

 

[Herky21]

I've been enjoying the bitterness in my beers since I switch to First Wort Hopping. I'd highly recommend it. I know what you mean about the 60 min additions though.

 

[Ash_Mathew]

Yeah, he has done the tortilla one too. Remember seeing it in one of his posts.

This is my corn. It's being a bit of a bugger with me, but it's getting there. Started it on Sunday. Think I may give it a few more days to get the shoots a little longer, and so some of the slower ones can get a bit more of a shoot on them.