Defending Dog (and myself) again Coyotes

[steelcitybrew]

So I just got back from a walk with my border collie / aussie shepherd.

So a background... I live in Hamilton, Ontario... population of just over 500,000.

Theres a stretch of woods on the east end of the city about 3/4 a Kilometer by about 10 kilometers, and I live in an apartment building across the street from it. Ive heard many a howellings coming from it and what not, but Ive never concerned myself with them.

Well, today I walked up to the CN train tracks (like I do every day) to play fetch, and walk along em to let him run free range a bit. Well i was there maybe 20 minutes playin fetch, (imagine a 15 foot steepish embankment on either side with woods also on either side) I just throw the ball and it bounces just on the edge of the left side of the embankment, all of a sudden I see what I thought was a gloden lab for a second, then realize its a coyote! He ran from the opposite side of the embankment and stops about 8 feet from my dog (my retard dog didnt even notice him! haha) .

I called him quickly and he ran to me and I quickly leashed em up. The coyote was a mouthy little bastard (high pitched barking--but really skiddish) , so I got pissed and started throwin the track ballast (big rocks) at em to scare the sh*t out of em. It did, and I kept advancing the bastard until I couldnt see he come back.

Thing was about the size of my dog (50 lbs) but with a heavier scruffier coat

Hamilton does have a small issue with them, im sure just as much as any city with good amount of woods in it. And heard from my girlfriend (after the walk of course) that there has been incidents of female coyotes luring dogs into ambushes with other coyotes.

So the reason of this thread, my actions were probably pretty stupid now when I think about it. But is there things I can do to defend me and my dog against the bastards? or ways to discourage them from even trying to get close? air horn? or bear bangers?

I hike alot with my dog and I have never experienced this.

Let me know your experiences, I really appreciate all your feedback!

-Ryan

 

[BendBrewer]

Normally an out numbered coyote will tuck tail and leave. Must have had some pups in the area that it was trying to distract you from.

I just raise my arms to shoot. They run off every single time.

I had a pup run up to me and my dogs one time. It must have lost its mother and though my dogs were her. Once it realized the mistake, it was gone.

 

[steelcitybrew]

thats crazy, thats pretty much what I was doin. But makes sense.

 

[dantheman13]

Normally an out numbered coyote will tuck tail and leave. Must have had some pups in the area that it was trying to distract you from.

I just raise my arms to shoot. They run off every single time.

I had a pup run up to me and my dogs one time. It must have lost its mother and though my dogs were her. Once it realized the mistake, it was gone.

Yeah, definitely. Coyotes are extremely skittish and scared of humans normally. I would say that it probably knew you were there, and the fact that it wasn't running at first, I'd also have to say there may have been pups in the area.

I'd say to just keep your dog a little closer, and you should be fine.

 

[BendBrewer]

I'll tell you, that pup didn't scare me or have me concerned about my dogs, but a Bald Eagle had me ****ting my pants one day. I had a 55 pound dog and I thought it was toast. Eagle changed it's mind at the last second. Dog never saw it.

 

[dantheman13]

I'll tell you, that pup didn't scare me or have me concerned about my dogs, but a Bald Eagle had me ****ting my pants one day. I had a 55 pound dog and I thought it was toast. Eagle changed it's mind at the last second. Dog never saw it.

Not to reinforce your fears (which I think are well founded), but I saw this on YouTube a month or so ago. I think the canine is a coyote though and not a wolf (Warning, this could be disturbing to some):

 

[BendBrewer]

^ That's pretty Bad Ass right there.

 

[jd3]

If you have a coyote that ISN'T skittish and doesn't just run off, the answer is to back away. It is very likely rapid if it isn't protecting pups or in a group.

Advancing on them is silly and bad idea. They can do a lot of damage, if forced into the situation. I've competitively coyote called/hunted for about 10 years and the only time you get inside of 50 yards of a coyote is if it is with pups or something is wrong with it. Avoid both.

 

[dantheman13]

If you have a coyote that ISN'T skittish and doesn't just run off, the answer is to back away. It is very likely rapid if it isn't protecting pups or in a group.

Advancing on them is silly and bad idea. They can do a lot of damage, if forced into the situation. I've competitively coyote called/hunted for about 10 years and the only time you get inside of 50 yards of a coyote is if it is with pups or something is wrong with it. Avoid both.

Ooh yeah, forgot about rabies.

 

[Yooper]

If you have a coyote that ISN'T skittish and doesn't just run off, the answer is to back away. It is very likely rapid if it isn't protecting pups or in a group.

Advancing on them is silly and bad idea. They can do a lot of damage, if forced into the situation. I've competitively coyote called/hunted for about 10 years and the only time you get inside of 50 yards of a coyote is if it is with pups or something is wrong with it. Avoid both.

Yes, I just asked Bob about this and he said it was more likely that the coyote was sick than with pups, as even then they will disappear and you won't see them. Especially if it was yipping- something was wrong with it.

A big coyote is usually 35 pounds at its biggest, not 50 pounds although I'm sure that weighing it was the least thing on your mind!

A coyote will almost always run from a human or dog, but it's not a bad idea to keep your dog closer to you in that area.

 

[steelcitybrew]

Yes, I just asked Bob about this and he said it was more likely that the coyote was sick than with pups, as even then they will disappear and you won't see them. Especially if it was yipping- something was wrong with it.

A big coyote is usually 35 pounds at its biggest, not 50 pounds although I'm sure that weighing it was the least thing on your mind!

A coyote will almost always run from a human or dog, but it's not a bad idea to keep your dog closer to you in that area.

Thats crazy! this is definitely one of my favorite spots to bring him, and its so close to my place.

I based the weight off the size difference of my dog, Jackson is a healthy 50 pounder at a year old. This coyote was about his size but beefier, could have just been the winter coat, looked real scruffy.

But thanks for all the warnings, Thinkin back ... stupid idea, I was pissed we couldnt keep on our walk, and kept barking, I was just ready to skin that dog with my work knife haha

Think it would be a good idea to keep going back? I do know of other areas, just not as close.

Thanks again everyone, I really appreciate it

-Ryan

 

[jd3]

Give it a week or two and it will be gone, for certain. Reporting it to local game/fish/wildlife authorities is worthwhile. Here they are removed from civilized areas. A semi-tame coyote is the last thing we need. Last year I was contracted to shoot around 15 of them from within the city limits. Not an easy task when you're not allowed a gun over .22 caliber due to population concerns.

Coyotes are curious buggers but the second they see people or pets they will scoot. They often run through the middle of our cows or bison, but won't stop as even a calf outweighs them by 200 lbs.

 

[jd3]

Yes, I just asked Bob about this and he said it was more likely that the coyote was sick than with pups, as even then they will disappear and you won't see them. Especially if it was yipping- something was wrong with it.

A big coyote is usually 35 pounds at its biggest, not 50 pounds although I'm sure that weighing it was the least thing on your mind!

A coyote will almost always run from a human or dog, but it's not a bad idea to keep your dog closer to you in that area.

That, or it wasn't really a coyote. Feral dogs are pretty common. The behavior is more fitting of a feral dog than most yotes i've ever seen.

 

[steelcitybrew]

That, or it wasn't really a coyote. Feral dogs are pretty common. The behavior is more fitting of a feral dog than most yotes i've ever seen.

Thats definitely a possibility, The closest Ive seen coyotes was when I was living in Calgary, theyd come right up to our job site, Here Ive seen only 2 and they were from far away, but I hear em all the time. But seriously NONE of them were this big!

The color was right on par though, and definitely the ears and tail! Fur was just way off (scruffy) and longer than Ive ever seen on a coyote. I was ready to pull out my cell phone to take a photo. God damn. Id like to poke around there after work tomorrow and check it out.

Either way, Ill definitely be calling wildlife control tomorrow morning to let them know.

thanks again

 

[Airborneguy]

I have to tell this coyote attack story...

We were doing a deer drive once and I heard a shot from my father's direction after hearing something running hard. After about a minute, I heard him calling me, so I headed towards him.

I see him standing over a dead dog. Here we mostly see coyote/feral mixes, we call them coy dogs. It was torn apart from the middle back. He said it ran directly at him and he just held his .30-06 at his hip and fired. He hit it in the left shoulder and the bullet exited out its ass, blowing apart the whole backside.

We never found out if it was rabid or not, but I just wanted to point out that they will attack, so be careful.

 

[Benthic]

<snip>
But is there things I can do to defend me and my dog against the bastards? or ways to discourage them from even trying to get close? air horn? or bear bangers?
<snip>

I don't know what the laws are like where you live, but my answer would be--buy a handgun.

Brian

 

[wowzers]

I use to cruise timber with my dog (heeler/border collie) all the time. We have coyotes but they stay down low. In the woods you got watch out for these guys (not me in the photo), especially with domestic dogs.

Not sure how well trained your dog is, mine is a box of rocks when it sees another dog so he would probably think time to play friend. At least he thought that until his first porcupine encounter.

 

[DregAddict]

So after reading this thread I had to share this story.

No more than 2 weeks ago I was drinking at my house with my brother(he rents a room from me with his girlfriend). It was pretty late and we were both pretty drunk, but I decided to take my dogs on a walk. I live on the very SE edge of the Las Vegas valley, and my neighborhood borders the desert, so I was going to take them on a paved trail that runs along the front of the desert. When I was getting the dogs on their leashes my brother walked out of the room. When he came back in he handed me something and said "just in case there's any coyotes."

I'm not afraid of coyotes. I've come across them before and they always keep their distance. Plus my dogs are a 85 lb German shepherd and a 65 lb pitbull. So I've never really worried about coyotes when I take them out to the desert.

Anyways, being drunk, and not having any fear of coyotes attacking me or my dogs, I look at what my brother handed me. And what do I see: a small black torpedo shaped object that I took for a flashlight. My brother had gone to the kitchen to get another beer when I say to him "it's pretty dark out there, is this going to give me enough light?"

He's busy getting out the bottle opener and he doesn't answer me. So I walk into the kitchen and start trying to turn on the flashlight by pressing it's button, but it won't come on for me to see how much light it will give.

I say to him "what's wrong with this thing?" while he's taking a sip of beer and ignoring me. Then I press the button forward and down only to immediately hear him yell "WHAT DID YOU DO?"

I dumbfoundedly look at him as he runs out the back door. I run after him and find him simultaneously puking, gasping for air, and yelling at me "you just sprayed me with f#cking pepper spray."

That **** put him down. I laughed at him for a while, telling him he was an idiot for giving a drunk guy some pepper spray, then took my dogs for the walk.

The way he reacted to the pepper spray I'm sure it would have sent a coyote running.

 

[steelcitybrew]

Not sure how well trained your dog is, mine is a box of rocks when it sees another dog so he would probably think time to play friend.

haha you hit the nail right on the head, thank god my dog had a ball in his mouth or he would have definitely went in for a run by to get it to chase him haha

 

[Kokopuff829]

Get a gun and shoot those ****ers. Well if they attack. If they start coming in on your property you could put poison in meat and kill them or just scare them off. I've heard of them attacking little kids and some get pretty bold.

 

[HItransplant]

 

[DeafSmith]

I saw a program on TV several months ago where 3 coyotes attacked and killed a girl in Canada - Newfoundland, or that general area - think she was maybe about 20 or so years old - a singer just beginning to make a career, but I can't remember her name. Anyway, this show said that in the eastern US and Canada the coyotes are breeding with wolves and a lot of them are about half wolf and bigger and much more aggressive than the smaller western coyotes.

 

[HItransplant]

I saw a program on TV several months ago where 3 coyotes attacked and killed a girl in Canada - Newfoundland, or that general area - think she was maybe about 20 or so years old - a singer just beginning to make a career, but I can't remember her name. Anyway, this show said that in the eastern US and Canada the coyotes are breeding with wolves and a lot of them are about half wolf and bigger and much more aggressive than the smaller western coyotes.

yikes.. in that case, maybe the paintball gun wont cut it...


bam:

I was followed home from walking the dog once by a coyote.. and im comfortably in what I would call "suburbs." He (she) definitely didnt seem to concerned about me and/or my german shorthair. He kept his distance, but certainly didnt run off like they normally do. It definitely got my hackles up.

 

[Homercidal]

Our schools' mascot is the coyote. You can hear them sometimes at night making all kinds of racket, but they are not as plentiful as they used to be.

Normally, a single coyote will never be seen around here, but if they are in a small pack, they can be deadly. Usually they won't attack, but if they get confident, you better be prepared with at least a baseball bat!

To the OP I'd report the sighting to an official. If it's coyotes or any feral canine, they will want to take it out.

 

[beersteiner2345]

Coyotes = trouble.

A single, non timid Coyote = BIG trouble

Walking my dogs in my in-laws neighborhood (they live in a very yuppy neighborhood) I saw four Coyotes and a feral dog running down the street, and then dash into the woods.

Don't know what I would have done if they came up to me or my dogs.

But long story short, I freaking HATE coyotes with a passion. Filthy, nasty creatures.

 

[jmendez29]

I used to belong to a snowmobiling forum, and from what I understand, farmers out west abhor coyotes and will pay snowmobilers for carcasses. At some point, someone had posted a short article about how to serve coyote. I can't find it, but it went something like this...

If you happen across a pack of coyotes, they make a fine meal. The best one to serve is the leader if you can identify it. Looking at it broadside, the heart is located just behind the shoulder. You will want to aim about 8-12 inches to the rear of that location, and the best gun to use will be a .22 rifle. If you give it a good gutshot, then it will go back to its pack injured. The other coyotes, sensing their brother's weakness, will converge upon the wounded animal and rip it to shreds.

Something along those lines. It was more entertaining the way it was originally written, but I just can't find where I saw it.

 

[dantheman13]

I used to belong to a snowmobiling forum, and from what I understand, farmers out west abhor coyotes and will pay snowmobilers for carcasses. At some point, someone had posted a short article about how to serve coyote. I can't find it, but it went something like this...

If you happen across a pack of coyotes, they make a fine meal. The best one to serve is the leader if you can identify it. Looking at it broadside, the heart is located just behind the shoulder. You will want to aim about 8-12 inches to the rear of that location, and the best gun to use will be a .22 rifle. If you give it a good gutshot, then it will go back to its pack injured. The other coyotes, sensing their brother's weakness, will converge upon the wounded animal and rip it to shreds.

Something along those lines. It was more entertaining the way it was originally written, but I just can't find where I saw it.

Coyotes are bad for livestock. They probably have something similar to say about cougars too.

 

[dunleav1]

Yes, I just asked Bob about this and he said it was more likely that the coyote was sick than with pups, as even then they will disappear and you won't see them. Especially if it was yipping- something was wrong with it.

A big coyote is usually 35 pounds at its biggest, not 50 pounds although I'm sure that weighing it was the least thing on your mind!

A coyote will almost always run from a human or dog, but it's not a bad idea to keep your dog closer to you in that area.

We have coyote contests here in PA, and eastern coyotes get much bigger than 35 lbs.

The eastern coyote is much larger than its western counterpart. Adult males in Pennsylvania weigh 45 to 55 pounds. The heaviest known male caught here weighed 62 pounds. Females are smaller, 35 to 40 pounds. The heaviest known female in Pennsylvania weighed 42 pounds.

 

[DeafSmith]

Here's more detail about the attack in my earlier post:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor_Mitchell

and more info about coyotes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coyote

EDIT: original link I posted was bad - deleted, new ones added

 

[wowzers]

Bottom line there isn't a coyote alive that I don't feel comfortable choking out. If one, two came up on me and my dog, game over. Wolves a whole other story.

 

[zac]

I farm, but also have a family. I know Im not adding to they story, but any coyote seen on my place is shot on the spot. Even if they are scared of you, being close enough to you to come within contact is a bad thing in my opinion.

 

[gratus fermentatio]

So I just got back from a walk with my border collie / aussie shepherd.

So a background... I live in Hamilton, Ontario... population of just over 500,000.

Theres a stretch of woods on the east end of the city about 3/4 a Kilometer by about 10 kilometers, and I live in an apartment building across the street from it. Ive heard many a howellings coming from it and what not, but Ive never concerned myself with them.

Well, today I walked up to the CN train tracks (like I do every day) to play fetch, and walk along em to let him run free range a bit. Well i was there maybe 20 minutes playin fetch, (imagine a 15 foot steepish embankment on either side with woods also on either side) I just throw the ball and it bounces just on the edge of the left side of the embankment, all of a sudden I see what I thought was a gloden lab for a second, then realize its a coyote! He ran from the opposite side of the embankment and stops about 8 feet from my dog (my retard dog didnt even notice him! haha) .

I called him quickly and he ran to me and I quickly leashed em up. The coyote was a mouthy little bastard (high pitched barking--but really skiddish) , so I got pissed and started throwin the track ballast (big rocks) at em to scare the sh*t out of em. It did, and I kept advancing the bastard until I couldnt see he come back.

Thing was about the size of my dog (50 lbs) but with a heavier scruffier coat

Hamilton does have a small issue with them, im sure just as much as any city with good amount of woods in it. And heard from my girlfriend (after the walk of course) that there has been incidents of female coyotes luring dogs into ambushes with other coyotes.

So the reason of this thread, my actions were probably pretty stupid now when I think about it. But is there things I can do to defend me and my dog against the bastards? or ways to discourage them from even trying to get close? air horn? or bear bangers?

I hike alot with my dog and I have never experienced this.

Let me know your experiences, I really appreciate all your feedback!

-Ryan

Around here we shoot 'em or trap 'em; we used to poison 'em, maybe some still do, but I don't think poisoned bait for coyotes is still legal. Coyotes make some nice warm hats.
http://www.alaskrafts.com/fl-hats4-coyote.htm

If you're looking for something more immediate, My 1st choice would be to pack a pistol; though you may not have that option being in Canada.

OC spray (bear spray) works well enough out to about 20 feet or so, depending on the size cannister & nozzle type. I'd think you'd be able to get a good cannister of bear spray in Canada.
http://counterassault.com/html/beardeterrent.html
Anything less than pain or death will not dissuade a determined coyote, they are truly wily critters. Regards, GF.

 

[steelcitybrew]

awesome replies, thanks again

Yeah guns are out of the question, bear spray is maybe a better option, but also 50 bucks for a can when I went to check it out, definitely picking some up eventually when I get above the poverty line haha

 

[Kokopuff829]

awesome replies, thanks again

Yeah guns are out of the question, bear spray is maybe a better option, but also 50 bucks for a can when I went to check it out, definitely picking some up eventually when I get above the poverty line haha

You could get castor oil plant seeds and make a homemade poison called ricin that can kill a man with many times the less amountthan cyanide

 

[o4_srt]

You could get castor oil plant seeds and make a homemade poison called ricin that can kill a man with many times the less amountthan cyanide

Blowgun with ricin? Nice.... I'm sure the department of homeland security would appreciate that

If guns are out of the question, how bout a samurai sword? You'd look like a total BA walkin down the tracks with a sword

 

[jmendez29]

Poison would definitely work, but you could possibly get in trouble for that depending on your local laws. And any which way, it wouldn't work in the immediate sense. Guns are out. A sword would definitely be pretty BA. But you might also look like some kind of LARP guy. Which is cool if you're into that kind of thing.

I used to go for walks with family members in the woods when I lived in Michigan's UP when I was a kid. I remembered that we would never go into the woods without a handgun and a rifle amongst the group, for fear of bears that were around that area. When I was still too young to carry a weapon, I was handed a baseball bat. Probably to make me feel a little more important, but I will still carry a bat if I go into the wilderness to this day. Never needed to use it, but better to have and not need...

If you want something for a little more distance, you could always get a slingshot. Being by railroad tracks, you'll always have a surplus of ammunition for it. Probably won't do any kind of permanent damage, but it will likely keep them at a further distance.

 

[Randar]

A big coyote is usually 35 pounds at its biggest, not 50 pounds although I'm sure that weighing it was the least thing on your mind!

A coyote will almost always run from a human or dog, but it's not a bad idea to keep your dog closer to you in that area.

I don't know how familiar Bob is with suburban coyotes (at least around Chicagoland) but they have been traveling in small groups much more frequently than in rural areas or would be expected due to past wild observation and have been attacking even large dog breeds.

As proof, my friend's 100+# male weimaraner was attacked by 3 coyotes in his back yard and needed close to 50 stitches after my friend ran out after he heard the rucus and he is over 6' tall and ~300 pounds... the coyotes snarled and growled and bared teeth towards him before he finally was able to ward them off. I know they have been known to attack smaller breeds, but this is not a unique occurrence around here recently.

 

[prrriiide]

We've seen coyotes in our neighborhood in West Knoxville several times. VERY populated area. It seems they're getting used to trash as food. It was really bad during our severe drought a couple of years ago. We have a fenced yard for the dog (who, like some other's) is basically a tongue and a tail with no brain in the equation, so we haven't actually seen them in the yard. And they don't come out in the light - strictly nocturnal activity.

I'd say that the folks that said that steel's coyote is probably diseased are right. I've never seen one that didn't disappear like Houdini as soon as they realize that they have company.

EDIT: I've also seen several that unsuccessfully fought a car laying beside the road.

 

[blizzard]

The instructor of my puppy class told us that when coyotes get really hungry the pack sends out a scout who will act playful to dogs. The scout then lures the dog back to the pack, where they kill the dog together. Just FYI, make sure your dog will come when you call, even in distracting situations.

 

[Weizenwerks]

Buy a gun. Carry it with you. Keep your dog on a leash.