cyser won't start

[patchmo]

Trying my hand at making a cyser (I’ve done one cider and several all-grain beers) but haven’t been able to get it to ferment. Here’s what I know:

1. According to the label, the cider was unpasteurized and contains no preservatives.
2. I dissolved two pounds of LHS-bought honey, and two pounds of grocery-bought brown sugar into a gallon of cider, and put that into a sanitized carboy with another 4 gallons of cider. OG was 1.075ish.
3. I crushed and stirred in 5 campden tablets, attached a sanitized airlock, and let it sit 24 hours.
4. I pitched a vial of White Labs Sweet Mead yeast (WLP720) according to their directions. Also added 5 tsp of sanitized yeast nutrient. Temp was a constant 68, which is a tad lower than the recommended 70, so I wrapped the carboy in a blanket and accepted that there might be a slow start.
5. 3 days later, still no airlock activity, and no change in gravity. Called the LHS, told them all this, as well as about what appears to be a layer of honey/sugar at the bottom that fell out of solution. The only thing we could think of was that even after 24 hours, there may have still been some undissolved campden tablets, which messed up the yeast. Since several days had passed, I could safely pitch some more yeast.
6. I hung up the phone, and pitched a packet of cote de rhone dry wine yeast I had leftover, but still within the best-by range, and pitched it according to instructions. 15 hours later, still no visible activity.

I’ll check the gravity again in a day or so, but if it’s still unchanged, what could be happening? One thing I thought of was that the brown sugar might have had a preservative; has anyone ever encountered that? Aside from making more of a yeast starter, what could I have done differently?

 

[Ch4s3]

Personally, I would have started with pasteurized cider and avoided the campden altogether.

I had a slow start recently because I pitched at like 60F, and keeping it shaken/stirred up got it going.

Brown sugar in my experience never has preservatives, because pure sugar is antiseptic. I've also read that sometimes it takes extra time for yeast to adjust to large amounts of brown sugar, but I'm not sure it that's true.

 

[commonsenseman]

Hmm, a couple thoughts.

-"Sweet Mead" yeast is considered by some to be somewhat finicky, perhaps a starter would be in order next time. Sounds to me though that you may have gotten some bad yeast.
-Never had a problem myself with campden keeping fermentation from starting, especially after 24 hours. But again, it may be the yeast.
-"Sweet Mead" yeast is a bit of a misnomer, as it's rated at 11%, so it will keep going until it hits something close to that, or all of the sugar has been eaten up. With a relatively low OG like yours, it should always take it to dry. There is nothing magical about this yeast that keeps a mead sweet.
-I've never heard of brown sugar having preservatives as I don't believe something with that high of a sugar content can spoil.
-I would suggest picking up a packet of dry yeast, re-hydrating it, perhaps make a "starter" with some go-ferm & a few ounces of your must mixed in. Then pitch it in with a little DAP.

Good luck!

 

[Genacide]

3 times now I've had campden kill my yeast after 24 hours. I always wait fr 36 hours now. Honey is also a slow starter, and brown suger isn't as quick as table sugar or dextrose. Give it some time.

 

[Greghark]

Are you sure of your og? I add 4 pounds of honey and 4 pounds of brown sugar to 5 gallons of fresh cider to get an og of over 1.100. (this makes a ridiculously strong cider/cyser) Your 1.075 seems really low for a single gallon batch.

The wlp720 is a sweet mead/wine (makes good riesling) yeast that will still go to a higher alcohol level (11% as previously mentioned) but will leave a higher level of sugar behind than most yeasts. With that said I still find most my batches with this yeast finishing below 1.000 while still having a sweet flavor.

I made over a dozen batches with this yeast with a variety of levels of added sugar and have seen the primary take up to 5 days to really get going or as quick a day. Make sure you are aerating your must when you pitch the yeast. I find capping the 5 gallon carboy with a solid stopper and a couple of inches of head space and then rocking the carboy to splash the must for 5 min works fine.

 

[patchmo]

Things finally took off over the weekend, thank goodness. At this point, I'm assuming it was a combination of undissolved campden tablets and low temps that did it. As it was my first time using them, I guess I thought they would dissolve easily - apparently you've got to crush them into complete dust.

As for the OG - it's a full 5 gallon batch.

On a side note, since I wasn't going to be around over the weekend, I put in a blow off tube. Everything has subsided now, but there appears to be residue all the way up to the neck of the 6.5 gal carboy; do ciders/apfelweins typically need blow off tubes, or do they not clog up airlocks like worts do?

 

[Half-cocked]

My only cyser so far, 4.5 pounds of honey in 4 gallons of apple cider, produced only a 1/2" layer of foam, never anything like my beers did. I would feel confident filling the carboy with 5 gallons, next time. Could yours have been caused by the type of yeast? I used Red Star Montrachet.

 

[Greghark]

I've also had batches with almost no foaming and I've had batches with the same type yeast blow out and gunk up my airlock even with a good amount of head space ~3". I think yeast does have some thing to do with it as well as the level of nutrients in the must, temp, pressure, etc.

I say to play it safe give it a couple of inches of head space and watch it fot the first week our just use a blow of tube for the first couple of weeks.