Crystal Malt: damn SG..

[Duvel]

Okay this is my second attempt at brewing. My first one ( https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=2231 ) was just malt extract, no hops or grains. Since, I think I've read almost the entire howtobrew site and (thought I'd) learned a lot from my mistakes in the first one. The first one tasted great but was just very very weak. I drank it like soda

Anyway this one I used 1.5kg of whole crystal malt which I but in a food-processor to crush. Then into a (sanitised) sock and steeped in a 1 UK gallon pot for an hour at 70C. Dunked it numerous times and squeezed it with a wooden spoon for 30mins. The wort went very dark. Then (removing the sock) boiled that for an hour, the last 30 mins of the boil I put 25g of fuggles hops in. Grand.
Because I only have a 1 gallon pot I thought I'd do it in stages. So once I'd done that and put it in my fermenter I filled up the pot again with boiling water and boiled a 1.6kg John Bull light LME for an hour. Again adding 25g hops half way through for flavouring. Cool water bath and into my fermentor also then topped up to 23L with cold water. Gave it a good stir with a large wooden spoon and then took a hydrometer reading. Now I was expecting somewhere between 1.040 and 1.050. But no, it was 1.022!! What the hell? That was the same as my last one which just had LME in it. It was late at this stage and I was tired from all the steeping and boiling so I gave in and put another 1.5kg of sugar in it just to get the SG up (I know, I know.. blasphemous stuff).

So what do yis reckon? Did I not steep it right? Did I not use enough grain? Any answers would be much appreciated.

Thanks

 

[ScottT]

Your formula target was only 1.029 with an IBU of 22 That's going to be a very dry bitter brew.

Adding the sugar should have pushed you up around 1.054 and dropped your IBU to 18.

The sugar will firment out completely leaving very little body.

The next time you formulate a recipe, use this spreadsheet to see what your getting for what you're adding.

http://hbd.org/recipator/

 

[Duvel]

Hey thanks Scott!
That spreadsheet is very handy indeed. I put in all my ingredients and you're right, my expected OG was only 1.029. I'll be using that in future sans doubt. Yeah I expected the sugar to leave it with hardly any body..

One question though, the bitterness, when I put it in it only came up as 6 IBU. From what I've read this is very low isn't it? "hopping rates from 10 IBU to 60 IBU" -http://realbeer.com/hops/FAQ.html.
I mean my boil was only 8 litres in total (between the two boils) and 50g (about 1.7ounces) of hops, for 30 mins.

What I mean is, what's the expected amount for an ale like this?

 

[Darth Konvel]

For a light, dry beer, I'd guess somewhere in the teens as far as IBU's go.

The usual recipe has you throw hops in at the begining of the boil (so that they boil for 60 minutes or more) so that you get as much bitterness from them as possible, then throw some more in later for more flavor or aroma. Next time try putting some in at the beginning of the boil, followed by some more in the 30-10 minute (remaining) range to bump you IBU's up.

 

[david_42]

Fuggles is a very low alpha acid hop, so your calculation isn't out of line. You really need to boil for 60+ minutes to allow the acids to convert & dissolve. And I mean boil! The slight difference between a simmer and a boil can cut your utilization in half.

Steeping grains doesn't add much in terms of sugars, just flavors.

Fact you didn't want to know: Michelob Ultra has an IBU of 3 !

 

[ScottT]

Hey thanks Scott!
One question though, the bitterness, when I put it in it only came up as 6 IBU. I mean my boil was only 8 litres in total (between the two boils) and 50g (about 1.7ounces) of hops, for 30 mins.

What I mean is, what's the expected amount for an ale like this?

You are so right, my appologies. I had pluged in 23L as your total boil. Dropping the boil down to 8L brings the hop extraction down to 14 IBU before the addition of the sugar and after it drops to 7 IBU. That will be barely perceptable.

It will be drinkable and the ABV should end up somewhere around 5.7% so it will have some kick.

 

[Rhoobarb]

One thing nobody's mentioned is that you used a food processor to crush your grain. Most food processors will pulverize grain. You don't want to have a powered or even a coffee grind. You may end up extracting tannins which will be very bitter.

You're just looking to crack the grains. Placing the grains into a zip-lock bag and using a rolling pin will do the job nicely.

 

[Shambolic]

Crystal malt is excellent, but don't count on it for fermentables. You only need to use at most 500g to get the flavour (I use ~250g, and that gives an excellent effect).

My basic guideline for my extract brews is 1.5kg LME, 1.5kg DME, then extras like crystal.

Use at least 3kg of malt extract to get a full bodied, full flavoured beer.

 

[Duvel]

It will be drinkable and the ABV should end up somewhere around 5.7% so it will have some kick.

Good good. I'm used to eastern european and belgian beers. Between 7% and 10% I think usually tastes the best.

You're just looking to crack the grains. Placing the grains into a zip-lock bag and using a rolling pin will do the job nicely.

Cheers Rhoobarb, will do.

Crystal malt is excellent, but don't count on it for fermentables. You only need to use at most 500g to get the flavour (I use ~250g, and that gives an excellent effect).My basic guideline for my extract brews is 1.5kg LME, 1.5kg DME, then extras like crystal.

Use at least 3kg of malt extract to get a full bodied, full flavoured beer.

Oh ok.. That's mostly an extract beer though isn't it. Is there not a time of malted grain that does have a lot of fermentables?

 

[david_42]

Oh ok.. That's mostly an extract beer though isn't it. Is there not a time of malted grain that does have a lot of fermentables?

Two-row pale is the workhorse. It is malted and dried to maximize available enzymes and fermentables. It is the majority grain in most beers and ales. Rule of thumb: darker = more flavor, less fermentables. There are some ales which use nothing but pale and depend on the yeast strain to generate the style.

 

[JeffPhD2005]

One thing nobody's mentioned is that you used a food processor to crush your grain. Most food processors will pulverize grain. You don't want to have a powered or even a coffee grind. You may end up extracting tannins which will be very bitter.

You're just looking to crack the grains. Placing the grains into a zip-lock bag and using a rolling pin will do the job nicely.

I have found that most local home brewing stores will also crush your grains for you...for a small price. Will they do that service for you as well? Saves you some time and hassle (one less thing to worry about).
Jeff

 

[Walker]

the one here in my town just has a mill in the corner. you do it yourself for no charge.

-walker

 

[Duvel]

I'm pretty jealous of yis in this regard. I have to buy all my stuff off the internet (usually beersmugglers.com, based in Dublin luckily). There is one homebrew shop on the other side of the city to me but they're primarily a healthfood shop which dedicate a tiny corner of their premises to brew things (terrible range). You'd think us Irish and all our drinking there'd be a little more interest in this. Frankly most of my friends "thought it was illegal" to homebrew.

 

[Lost]

First of all a grain bag (a plastic tea bag type thing) is very very inexpensive - maybe 2 dollars here in the states. If you were closer I'd send you the bag I used to use. Please don't use a sock.. while it's probably ok because you boiled the wort afterwards there's no reason to not use a grain bag. Steeping grains is a great way for the extract brewer to add more depth to the beer but do not expect to get fermentables out of the grains by steeping Palmer's how to brew lists the grains that can be steeped and those that cannot. He also lists exactly how much sugar you'll get out of your grains by steeping them (very little at best). I also noticed you also used a wooden spoon.. this is another no no, always use plastic.. wood is difficult to sterilize and should especially never ever come in contact with the cooled wort.

As for the grains, your internet store ought to mill them for you at no cost. Assuming they seal the grains in a plastic bag then they should keep for a good bit. I'll tell you, the grind is very important.. you can do an ok job yourself using a rolling pin but it's a pain in the arse. If it's ground too fine then you may end up with beer that tastes like tea.

Qbrew is a nice free program that will give you guidelines for various styles and will calculate color, abv, ibu, OG, and FG. If you want to get serious then promash is the way to go.

Table sugar is another no no.. while I certainly understand why you did it, try not to do it in the future. Table sugar will ferment completely, thus you only get alcohol and not body or flavor from it. Also table sugar if used in large quantities (I see you used somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 lbs - that is a lot) can create cidery off flavors. For the extract and all grain brewer alike it is always a good idea to have extra LME or DME on hand so that the OG can be adjusted if it is too low. If you don't have any extract then priming sugar (cornsugar/dextrose) can be used and it will not create cidery off flavors. However, corn sugar will reduce the body just as table sugar does.

Lastly, as others have pointed out, you'll get more bitterness from less hops if you boil the hops longer. A 60 min boil is standard. Try adding some hops at the 60 min mark, 25 min mark, and 5 min mark. That way you'll have hop bitterness, flavor, and aroma. You'll get more bitterness (higher efficiency) from hop pellets. The whole and plug hops work best for flavor and aroma since the aromatic glands haven't been ground up, pulverized, and processed into rabbit pellets.

And for extract brewing you really need a pot that will hold three gallons with room to spare so you don't have any boilovers. Aluminum is fine, stainless steel is probably better. The ceramic coated ones work great too as long as you're careful not to chip the coat. Thicker bottoms help protect against burns/searing which is a particular problem for the extract brewer. While a 1 gal pot would technically work as you can attest, I would think that doing 3 or 4 60 minute boils for one 5 gallon batch of beer would get old.. heck, doing that would take you as long to do extract as it takes me to do an all grain batch.

With all that said, this batch will be fine and your next even better. Happy brewing.

 

[Duvel]

Thanks very much for your help and advise. I've read up a bit on sugars now and I read somewhere that if you leave the bottles stand for a while this cidery flavour in the brew I've made will disappear eventually. Is this true?

My next brew, I'm putting in a load of DME but I also want to throw in some brown sugar. If I boil the sugar for a while, almost caramelise it, it will invert and then there will be no cidery taste right?

 

[kenmc]

watch out for boilover - I did this with sugar 2 weeks ago. turns out to have been a good thing though, cos I had opened a 1kg bag and thrown it in, instead of a 0.5kg bag. only realised this when I had to start the boil again!
I usually use tesco raw cane sugar - might be called demerara or something. anyway.

 

[Darth Konvel]

Thanks very much for your help and advise. I've read up a bit on sugars now and I read somewhere that if you leave the bottles stand for a while this cidery flavour in the brew I've made will disappear eventually. Is this true?

My next brew, I'm putting in a load of DME but I also want to throw in some brown sugar. If I boil the sugar for a while, almost caramelise it, it will invert and then there will be no cidery taste right?

The cidery taste should age out of a beer, yes.

As long as the majority of your fermentables are from the DME, I wouldn't worry too much about the cider taste showing up. Just throw it in with your DME and get a good boil going. Also try to get a good bit of aeration before you pitch your yeast - something you should try for anyways, so nothing to stress over.